There is no God. I want to die. Why should i not commit suicide?

[Arizona_Mike]

Well, you didn’t just say that, did you? You said that “there’s a reason so many atheists seem angry and nasty…” and you prefixed it (and therefore inextricably linked it) with a sentence that repeats the old theistic guff that atheists must have desperately hollow existences without a deity to worship.

So, my friend, the accusation stands. Quod erat demonstrandum, you might say

.

Again, this was not an ad hominem argument. It was just something you find distasteful.

I don’t like when people point out a logical fallacy on the Internet and then condescendingly refer them to a Wikipedia article on that fallacy, so I won’t do that to you. But clearly, this was not ad hominem.

(But even if it were, ad hominem arguments can still be correct, even if improperly supported…)

And in your reading experience of atheistic tomes, do you come away with the idea that they’re all depressed, introverted types just waiting for death to release them from their miserable existences? If so, then perhaps you could furnish me with the names of these books, for I’ve yet to read one that gives that impression in the slightest.

I’d suggest you read Camus, Nitezsche, or Sartre, for starters.

Even Dawkins, who tends toward Positivism, can be pretty grim:

Dawkins: In the universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, and other people are going to get lucky; and you won’t find any rhyme or reason to it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is at the bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good. Nothing but blind pitiless indifference. DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is, and we dance to its music.

Just a regular Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm, no?

Maybe you’re reflecting: because the realisation that your God doesn’t exist would fill you with sadness, you assume that atheists must also feel the same? Just a thought. All I know is that no atheist books that I’ve read have had any kind of negative emotional effect on me. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Relieved to hear it.

 

[Qoeleth]

If you read Albert Camus’ “Myth of Sisyphus” you get a brilliant explanation of why a man should/does not commit suicide in the face of a hopeless and meaningless universe. This is developed further in “The Rebel”.

But I would argue that Camus’ ‘atheism’ is actually Christianity.

 

[prodigalson2011]

If you read Albert Camus’ “Myth of Sisyphus” you get a brilliant explanation of why a man should/does not commit suicide in the face of a hopeless and meaningless universe. This is developed further in “The Rebel”.

But I would argue that Camus’ ‘atheism’ is actually Christianity.

Truer than you might think. One of Camus’ favorite writers and biggest influences was St.Augustine. I think Camus was just a Doubting Thomas. He openly acknowledged a feeling of needing salvation.

Also, I must give “The Myth of Sisyphus” accolades as being, imo, the best attempt to find meaning in the face of absurdity. It doesn’t quite do it, I don’t think, but it was a brilliant effort. The new atheists can’t hold a candle to Camus.

 

[Simon123454321]

A 16 year old girl and boy are dating, they break up, for 24 to 72 hours the boy feels like life has lost meaning and wants to end his life. Way too many on this post say, sure let him off himself, buy him a gun, encourage him to end his life. The next day his hormones would have reset, he would have let go of the loss and recovered enough to go on with his life. I find idea that everyone wants everyone to just go end their life very disturbing.

Killing the unborn is wrong, suicide is wrong, killing a random person on the street is wrong… etc.

I will pray for all of you that your lack of empathy, choice to not caring for your fellow man or woman when they are in their most painful vulnerable state does not result in people treating you that way when you are in such circumstances. Do you kick pupies, steal money from homelss people and candy from babies? I just don’t get it, the level of self-centeredness is just very troubeling. If you all hate God, hate people who belive in God, hate people who are breathing, why are you even on these forums? Are you happy with your world view? If not, then consider changing it. If not then why are you here unless it is to make others as miserable as you are.

And yes existentialist philosphiers tend to be depressed, often clinicaly so and too hopeless and scared to muster enough energy to change anything in their lives for the positive. I found No Exit to be particularly uplifting.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

If you read Albert Camus’ “Myth of Sisyphus” you get a brilliant explanation of why a man should/does not commit suicide in the face of a hopeless and meaningless universe.

What I gathered from the paper reminds me of “It’s not the destination, it’s the trip.”

 

[Simon123454321]

You can’t control the destination, you just take one step at a time. So it has to be about the trip.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

A 16 year old girl and boy are dating, they break up, for 24 to 72 hours the boy feels like life has lost meaning and wants to end his life. Way too many on this post say, sure let him off himself, buy him a gun, encourage him to end his life. The next day his hormones would have reset, he would have let go of the loss and recovered enough to go on with his life. I find idea that everyone wants everyone to just go end their life very disturbing.

Killing the unborn is wrong, suicide is wrong, killing a random person on the street is wrong… etc.

I will pray for all of you that your lack of empathy, choice to not caring for your fellow man or woman when they are in their most painful vulnerable state does not result in people treating you that way when you are in such circumstances. Do you kick pupies, steal money from homelss people and candy from babies? I just don’t get it, the level of self-centeredness is just very troubeling. If you all hate God, hate people who belive in God, hate people who are breathing, why are you even on these forums? Are you happy with your world view? If not, then consider changing it. If not then why are you here unless it is to make others as miserable as you are.

And yes existentialist philosphiers tend to be depressed, often clinicaly so and too hopeless and scared to muster enough energy to change anything in their lives for the positive. I found No Exit to be particularly uplifting.

What rational reason does an atheist have for wanting me to live with my suffering?

Without God, i see no reason.

 

[tonyrey]

What rational reason does an atheist have for wanting me to live with my suffering?

Without God, i see no reason.

He wants to prove that you’re wrong!

 

[Simon123454321]

“What rational reason does an atheist have for wanting me to live with my suffering?”

Life includes a full spectrum of emotions, suffering can not be avoided by anyone. It does not matter what religion you are or are not. If one quits a game every time they get a bad die roll, quits a job every time someone fails to appreciate them, attempts to kills themself every time love is not returned, attempts to kill themself for lack of planning for a career that is meaningful, then they are either suffering from a mental disorder or are a coward.

I have talked with hundreds of suicidal people. They are in a state of distress. It passes. The pendelum swings, they get closure, obtain happiness, gain meaning and go on with their lives.

Hopelessness is a feeling… it passes. Why would an athiest want someone to eat when they are hungry, why does an athiest want someone to smile when they are happy, why does an athiest care about your suffering or lack there of? Why does anyone care about anyone? The ability to feel empathy for another human being makes one want to relieve the suffering in anotehr person. If you simply want the person to off themself and take pleasure from this then you are sociopathic.

Atheism like existentialism is basically faith in the god of human reason above and beyond love, action, connection, caring, engagement in life. A failure to see how improbable all of this is if not created and guided by a higher power.

None of this is about you wanting to save the other person from suffering, it is about your failure to join emotionally with a suffering person and help them get through it to happiness again. A kind word, a smile, a helping hand, direction toward support that the person did not know was there, teaching skills to obain meaning from life and move through the hopelessness. You dismiss life like it were a disease, something to be rid of, but have no plan for what to do after it is gone. That is poor planning as well as poor reasoning. If you do not belive in afterlife, and this is all that is, then make something of it or don’t. You have freewill whether you want to admit or not. Therefor all I can do is invite you to live. If you chose not to then you would not be at the therapist in the first place, you would already be dead. It is not such a hard thing to take your life, I can list hundreads of ways that people I have known have tried or succeeded. What would you do for any of them? Would you shed a tear or smile at their passing at the devistation that follows among family members, friends, aquaintances as dispare as a contagion infects dozens of other lives breading hopelessness in its path and more suicide attempts or completions.

I can not and will not pick your lack of empathy for a fellow man or woman, child, baby or for you.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

Saying there is no God is making quite an assumption. Careful. Anyways, you are depressed, you need to see a psychiatrist.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

“What rational reason does an atheist have for wanting me to live with my suffering?”

Life includes a full spectrum of emotions, suffering can not be avoided by anyone. It does not matter what religion you are or are not. …]

Well said. Would have loved to have had your (name removed by moderator)ut in the last incarnation of this topic (titled “If there Is no God, Heaven, or objective moral value, Why survive?” which is the same question from my stand point).

 

[MindOverMatter2]

“What rational reason does an atheist have for wanting me to live with my suffering?”

Life includes a full spectrum of emotions, suffering can not be avoided by anyone.

Thats irrelevant. Some suffer more than others; some people have different thresholds of pain in terms of what they can deal with psychologically and physiologically.

Something your bulging ego has evidently ignored.

It does not matter what religion you are or are not. If one quits a game every time they get a bad die roll, quits a job every time someone fails to appreciate them, attempts to kills themself every time love is not returned, attempts to kill themselves for lack of planning for a career that is meaningful, then they are either suffering from a mental disorder or are a coward.

This is very much a straw-man and a caricature of the OP. Your are attempting to trivialize the problem by portraying the patients negative reaction as being overreactions to minor phases of bad luck, in-order to make it appear that the OP isn’t trying hard enough. But in reality none of what you have said is really capturing the problem that the OP is facing. Its called blaming the victim. But i will roll with it any way.

In general the OP is asking what is the point of dealing with life’s many and potential problems if there is no objective purpose and meaning to it. We all naturally want freedom from suffering and unhappiness. Death is the ultimate opportunity for us to achieve that end. For some, such an end is more practical than for others who live in an ivory palace and therefore think they have something to lose. Perhaps those who strive to live in a meaningless irrelevant existence are the real cowards; since they would rather put up with a finite life full of potential suffering, rather than face eternal death; something thats coming for all of us anyway.

Now back to your attacks on the character and mental health of the OP; given that metaphysical naturalism is true, what possible objective meaning could the words “mental-disorder” and “coward” have? Both these words assume that there is a way we ought be in objective truth and reality; that those who can deal with suffering are in reality somehow morally better than those who can’t; according to an objective standard of being. But none of these things are true if God does not exist. Sounds to me that you are mistaking the subjective fantasy of survivalist-egoism, with the truth of how things should be.

Some people who achieve the potentiality of giving up cigarettes tend to have a power trip, in the sense that they think that they are better than those who fail to give up; and to mark their territory of success they call the victims weak. The delusion of course is that will-power alone is all that is needed to give up.

Some people have the same kind of attitude towards those who suffer from depression.

I have talked with hundreds of suicidal people. They are in a state of distress. It passes. The pendelum swings, they get closure, obtain happiness, gain meaning and go on with their lives.

That is evidently not always true. Any honest person can see that.

Of course the atheist can delude themselves into happiness and fulfillment by ignoring reality; but you should assume that the OP wants to be honest about the cold facts of reality and that the doctor would not want to lie about the real nature of things in-order to achieve positive results.

 

[lemondiesel]

What rational reason does an atheist have for wanting me to live with my suffering?

Without God, i see no reason.

You are only suffering because you allow yourself to be subject to suffering.

let’s go explain what reality is…

 

[MindOverMatter2]

You are only suffering because you allow yourself to be subject to suffering.

So…who is your Guru?

 

[lemondiesel]

So…who is your Guru?

Better question… who isn’t my guru?

If you are suffering, you must remember that there is always someone else who is suffering more than you. The fact that you have the ability to even see a doctor shows your advantages over, for example, starving children somewhere else in the world.

Your Bible teaches that suffering is the result from sin. In other words, suffering is the result from Man’s choices and actions. Starving children are not suffering because they were destined to, they suffer as a result from others’ actions elsewhere in the world. Your suffering is much different. You are involved in the modern world (which is your choice) and you choose to continue participating.

You are allowing yourself to experience suffering.

 

[hazmat]

I am your patient. You are my Atheist Psychologist.

There is no God. I want to die. Why should i not commit suicide?

Metaphysical naturalism is true. So why should i keep on breaking my back for very low wages, feeling unhappy, having no friends, no wife, and generally having a ****** non-fulfilling life.

Since death is inevitable, why put up with the humiliation on a daily basis, suffering from severe depression, taking pills to get by, when i could just simply cease to exist and therefore cease to struggle in this meaningless world?

The fear of death is the only thing keeping me alive.

why havent you committed suicide? obviously, something has kept you. if its just fear of death, then that is your answer. i want to die and im afraid to die are hard things to reconcile. given that youre still alive, its safe to assume you fear death more than you want it. so go ahead and live if thats still your preference.

 

[Simon123454321]

OP wants to be honest about the cold facts of reality and that the doctor would not want to lie about the real nature of things in-order to achieve positive results.

So for you the “real nature of things” is that life is suffering and the op should just off himself because they will never have a better moment in life, their mood will never improve, they will never be helped by medication, learning skills, developing relationships, or just dumb luck, so yoou should just end it.

It is neat that you are omnicient regarding the patients past, present and future. What puzzles me, however is why you would consider it a positive outcome if the patient does not kill himself?

Given your view that the “real nature of things” is that life is just suffering with no enjoyment or meaning, it surprises me that you chose to play. Why is it that you do if things are really that bad for you?

Is it more egocentric to experience pleasure in life, see others experience happiness in life and try to help someone who is down to experience the same or to ignore the meaning and pleasure that people find in life, take your own view that all life is suffering an inflict this on the patient in an effort to murder them by proxy?

If I am wrong there is always time to off one’s self later. If you are wrong, you have stolen all potential happiness they could have experienced to confirm your belief that all life is hopelessness. You have also lost your license to practice, may well get sued by any relatives and will have to practice spreading hopelessness through another venue. Such as online forums.

 

[LittleSoldier]

OP wants to be honest about the cold facts of reality and that the doctor would not want to lie about the real nature of things in-order to achieve positive results.

So for you the “real nature of things” is that life is suffering and the op should just off himself because they will never have a better moment in life, their mood will never improve, they will never be helped by medication, learning skills, developing relationships, or just dumb luck, so yoou should just end it.

It is neat that you are omnicient regarding the patients past, present and future. What puzzles me, however is why you would consider it a positive outcome if the patient does not kill himself?

Given your view that the “real nature of things” is that life is just suffering with no enjoyment or meaning, it surprises me that you chose to play. Why is it that you do if things are really that bad for you?

Is it more egocentric to experience pleasure in life, see others experience happiness in life and try to help someone who is down to experience the same or to ignore the meaning and pleasure that people find in life, take your own view that all life is suffering an inflict this on the patient in an effort to murder them by proxy?

If I am wrong there is always time to off one’s self later. If you are wrong, you have stolen all potential happiness they could have experienced to confirm your belief that all life is hopelessness. You have also lost your license to practice, may well get sued by any relatives and will have to practice spreading hopelessness through another venue. Such as online forums.

It helps if you quote the post to which you are responding.

Just sayin’.

 

[Shredderbeam]

If you are rational and in your right state of mind (and previous encounters with you leave me in no doubt that you are), then I see no reason not to.

 

[Birdpreacher]

At least read the myth of Sisyphus by Camus first.