There's no OSAS

  • Thread starter Thread starter angelusm
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them.
Click to expand...
They had accepted the word of God. They had heard the word just like those later in Acts 10. BUT they had not recieved the Holy Spirit. WHY? If hearing the word was sufficient by itself then why not recieve the Holy Spirit then as well.
When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
**Why did Peter and John believe they have not recieved the Holy Spirit? **
 
40.png
JRKH:
Faith + Works of course. the only place in the bible where faith alone is even used is in James 2:24 where he says, “You must percieve that a person is justified by his works and NOT by faith alone.” this is followed in vs 26 with, “be assured then that faith without works is as dead as a body without breath.”

If you believe the bible is God’s Holy Word, then you believe the above. If you ignore the above, then you reject part of God’s Holy Word.
Click to expand...
Right, as I said, Catholic justification is by “faith + works,” correct?
40.png
JRKH:
When one truly understands that “notion”, they will see that this is no different than the OSASers out of saying that if one loses their salvation it was because they didn’t ever really have it.
Click to expand...
What you’ve said is inaccurate.

The “OSAS” position is that one cannot lose salvation.
40.png
JRKH:
Works are performed within the framework of salvation.

It is shown time and again, yet it is ignored. funny when you think how much you rely on the bible that you should ignore the entire book of James.
Click to expand...
I don’t ignore the book of James—I understand James correctly; IMO, you don’t.
 
brkn1 said:
Yes. As equals in Christ’ work of being redeemed from all sin, but not as equals in further rewards (crowns).
Click to expand...
A person can only wear one crown?
Like the wicked servant, who buried the talent, even the talent will be taken from him, but the bad servant is still saved and will be no less a child of God. He will not be as happy though as he could have been, if he were obedient etc.
There will be degrees of happiness in heaven, as in hell, there will be degrees of torment. Jesus said so.
Click to expand...
Degrees of happiness? **There will be people less happier than others in Heaven? **
 
Joey Warren:
You and others missed the intent. A person sins all his life and recieves Christ on his death bed whereas another Person accepts Christ at an early age and never sins at all. They both stand in front of God as equals…
Click to expand...
That’s correct.
 
brkn1 said:
There were different methods of the Holy Spirit coming upon a person.
The Centurion did not need the first laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit. The order was reversed. The Holy Spirit was already in the Centurion before the laying on of hands.
Click to expand...
Correct; Acts chronicles the formation of the church, and not the normative condition of the church as can be seen by the actions of the apostles, and other reps of Christ in the signs and miracles they performed as a confirmation that they were “of God.”

There are no longer any apostles.
 
sandusky said:
There are no longer any apostles.
Click to expand...
So you say? By whose authority?

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Is this verse no longer a verse of truth? It is either true today as it was then or…
 
sandusky said:
Right, as I said, Catholic justification is by “faith + works,” correct?
Click to expand...
If my response was not clear enough for you previously, i’m sure i couldn’t make it any clearer now.
What you’ve said is inaccurate.
The “OSAS” position is that one cannot lose salvation.
Click to expand...
What I said is not inaccurate.
IF and only IF one truly is saved can they not lose their salvation, but if someone falls away it is because the weren’t saved in the first place right???
So, while you BELIEVE and HAVE FAITH that you ARE SAVED, you cannot KNOW with FULL KNOWLEDGE. You must take it ON FAITH.
And if later you lose that faith, to the point of cursing the Holy Spirit, it will be said of you that you were never saved.

I know exactly what I am saying here. - You don’t
I don’t ignore the book of James—I understand James correctly; IMO, you don’t.
Click to expand...
I have the 2000 years of Spirit Guided, Adversity Tested, Apostolicly Affirmed teachings of the Catholic Church to stand on in addition to my own, Spirit Guided, understanding.
I’ll take that pedgree anyday.
So - We understand the Book of James and you don’t; IMHO.

Peace
James
 
Joey Warren:
So you say? By whose authority?
Click to expand...
God’s
Joey Warren:
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Click to expand...
Is this verse no longer a verse of truth? It is either true today as it was then or…
Click to expand...
That was then, now is now.

The office of Apostle is a very specific office that is no longer active.

As evidence that he was a ”true apostle,” Paul, in 1 Cor 12:12 states that he had performed the signs, and wonders, and miracles that are the hallmark of a true apostle.

The signs, wonders, miracles of true apostles—an office conferred directly by God—are chronicled in the Book of Acts.

Where have those signs, wonders, and miracles of true apostles been performed since the death of John?
 
sandusky said:
God’s

That was then, now is now.

The office of Apostle is a very specific office that is no longer active.

As evidence that he was a ”true apostle,” Paul, in 1 Cor 12:12 states that he had performed the signs, and wonders, and miracles that are the hallmark of a true apostle.

The signs, wonders, miracles of true apostles—an office conferred directly by God—are chronicled in the Book of Acts.

Where have those signs, wonders, and miracles of true apostles been performed since the death of John?
Click to expand...
Now, you are making stuff up.

**
1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
Click to expand...
**
 
Of course you meant:
2 Cor 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
Click to expand...
Where is the “True Apostle”?

Also he is explaining what had transpired earlier in their(Corinthians) life. Paul is not stating hallmarks such as you claim.
 
40.png
VociMike:
So then both justification and sanctification are necessary for salvation, and once saved we still have it within our power to reject sanctification and thus not be saved. Am I getting it right?
Click to expand...
Once justified, the elect have the ability to resist the Spirit, to sin and thereby to stumble, to slip, to fall, etc; however, they will never fall away fully or finally (cf Lk 22:31-32; cf Heb 7:25).
 
DCD said:
A person who continues to make statements that Catholics believe in works salvation after they have been corrected, would they be commiting the third sin against the Holy Spirit? Impugning the known truth?

Peace,
DCD
Click to expand...
Either that or the person is so committed to Protestantism he/she just can’t bring self to believe otherwise… either way, objectively speaking, it is not right and if one continues in error without concern for the truth, well, the truth has a way of biting you in … well, you know… 😃

What do you mean by the third sin against the Holy spirit? What are the 1st & 2nd??
 
Another scripture passage against OSAS:

The daily reading today (Tues): Acts 16:22… The jailor where Paul and Silas were jailed was going to kill himself (when the doors 2 the prison were found open)… Paul told him not to. The jailor asked what he must do to be saved. Paul told him to believe in Jesus and he would be saved (future tense)… Then, after this, Paul baptized the whole family.

If the jailor was saved just from believing in Christ, why did he have to be baptized? Why would Paul bother?

Oh, yeah, i forgot… The Protestants will just say that it was a formaility…

Hmmm… As if Paul didn’t have anything better to do than go through a meaningless ritual …
 
sandusky said:
Once justified, the elect have the ability to resist the Spirit, to sin and thereby to stumble, to slip, to fall, etc; however, they will never fall away fully or finally (cf Lk 22:31-32; cf Heb 7:25).
Click to expand...
But people can think they are justified and have it turn out later that they weren’t.
 
Joey Warren:
Where is the “True Apostle”?

Also he is explaining what had transpired earlier in their(Corinthians) life. Paul is not stating hallmarks such as you claim.
Click to expand...
The verification set forth by God that Christ was who He said He was is in the works that Christ performed; likewise with the apostles:**Acts 2:22

“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know—

Acts 2:43

Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles.

2 Corinthians 12:12

The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.**True apostles perform signs, wonders, miracles. 🤷
 
40.png
distracted:
The daily reading today (Tues): Acts 16:22… The jailor where Paul and Silas were jailed was going to kill himself (when the doors 2 the prison were found open)… Paul told him not to. The jailor asked what he must do to be saved. Paul told him to believe in Jesus and he would be saved (future tense)… Then, after this, Paul baptized the whole family.

If the jailor was saved just from believing in Christ, why did he have to be baptized? Why would Paul bother?

Oh, yeah, i forgot… The Protestants will just say that it was a formaility…

Hmmm… As if Paul didn’t have anything better to do than go through a meaningless ritual …
Click to expand...
What is Paul’s response to the jailer’s question?

Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved…?

Or, Believe in the Lord Jesus, and be baptized, and you will be saved?

In almost every case in the book of Acts, the sequence is, repent, believe, be baptized.

Belief is a prerequisite to baptism.

Baptism guarantees nothing (cf Mk 16:16).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top