There's Something About Mary

[Soldier_Of_God]

I have a personal problem with Mariolatry or what I see is Mariolatry in the Church. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to reconcile our Catholic beguilement with Mary, to the point of open worship by some members. It appears to me that many of our fellow Catholics worship her, pray to her, confess their sins to her, even to the exclusion of Jesus. Additionally, many of use consider Mary analogous to their own mother. She is a personal protector, intercession, and redemptrix.

I understand the Blessed Virgin has a separate and eminent rank (hyperdulia) among the saints to many. However, this veneration seems to go beyond what I think would be appropriate given in scripture and tradition. I’m really struggling with this as I try to maintain an orthodox interpretation of Catholicism but I cannot seem to get beyond what I see in every Catholic church I’ve ever been at, which is people openly worshiping Mary.

It’s my position that giving Mary too much attention and importance takes away focus on Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God the Father. I do not believe I am merely misunderstanding the teachings on Mary or have poor catechesis but am basing my concerns on my personal observations and experiences. Any assistance would be appreciated as this issue is affecting my faith as a Catholic.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Catholics who know their faith can agree with you that giving Mary the worship due to God alone is wrong. If you know a Catholic who says otherwise, then go forth yourself and set the example of true devotion.

 

[FCEGM]

. . .

I understand the Blessed Virgin has a separate and eminent rank (hyperdulia) among the saints to many. However, this veneration seems to go beyond what I think would be appropriate given in scripture and tradition. I’m really struggling with this as I try to maintain an orthodox interpretation of Catholicism but I cannot seem to get beyond what I see in every Catholic church I’ve ever been at, which is people openly worshiping Mary.

It’s my position that giving Mary too much attention and importance takes away focus on Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God the Father. I do not believe I am merely misunderstanding the teachings on Mary or have poor catechesis but am basing my concerns on my personal observations and experiences. Any assistance would be appreciated as this issue is affecting my faith as a Catholic.

Could you please give some examples of this “worship” of Mary you have witnessed?

 

[Windfish]

Really? In Canada?

I am a Mexican American, so the Virgin is a big part of my life since I was little because Our Lady of Guadalupe is in our blood. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. We pray to her and ask for her intercession constantly, and our family has been blessed as a result. Once and a while, a powerful fragrance like the scent of roses can be smelled in our living room, which, if you know anything about my house, is very unusual. More often, that powerful fragrance “follows” us around at the most interesting times - just this last Easter, my brother described smelling it again during adoration. We do think of her as our mother, but that is entirely orthodox.

We pray to her before confession, asking her for her intercession, but we don’t confess our sins to her and expect to be absolved them. Is that what you see happening?

As far as I can tell, regarding her as mother, praying to her, etc. those shouldn’t bother you. Do you think that’s worship?

Marian piety is usually a sign that the Catholic faith is alive and well, so I am sorry to hear about all of that.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Could you please give some examples of this “worship” of Mary you have witnessed?

Here are some things that I’ve seen with my own eyes…

• Kissing the feet of a statue of Mary
• Prayer’s to Mary to heal and provide salvation for a person
• An admission of a person that says he worships Mary
• Crowning, adorning and kneeling before Mary’s statue

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Really? In Canada?

I am a Mexican American, so the Virgin is a big part of my life since I was little because Our Lady of Guadalupe is in our blood. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. We pray to her and ask for her intercession constantly, and our family has been blessed as a result. Once and a while, a powerful fragrance like the scent of roses can be smelled in our living room, which, if you know anything about my house, is very unusual. More often, that powerful fragrance “follows” us around at the most interesting times - just this last Easter, my brother described smelling it again during adoration. We do think of her as our mother, but that is entirely orthodox.

We pray to her before confession, asking her for her intercession, but we don’t confess our sins to her and expect to be absolved them. Is that what you see happening?

As far as I can tell, regarding her as mother, praying to her, etc. those shouldn’t bother you. Do you think that’s worship?

Marian piety is usually a sign that the Catholic faith is alive and well, so I am sorry to hear about all of that.

Yes, in Canada.

My heritage is Italian and many of the churches have attended very strong Marian devotions. Perhaps it’s a personal bias but I know the difference between showing reverence and worship. I keep seeing servile devotion to Mary and what I saw the last prayer meeting at our local church it was finally did it for me. It may sound somewhat recreant but I don’t think I can compartmentalize it anymore.

 

[supertubos]

I have a personal problem with Mariolatry or what I see is Mariolatry in the Church. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to reconcile our Catholic beguilement with Mary, to the point of open worship by some members. It appears to me that many of our fellow Catholics worship her, pray to her, confess their sins to her, even to the exclusion of Jesus. Additionally, many of use consider Mary analogous to their own mother. She is a personal protector, intercession, and redemptrix.

I understand the Blessed Virgin has a separate and eminent rank (hyperdulia) among the saints to many. However, this veneration seems to go beyond what I think would be appropriate given in scripture and tradition. I’m really struggling with this as I try to maintain an orthodox interpretation of Catholicism but I cannot seem to get beyond what I see in every Catholic church I’ve ever been at, which is people openly worshiping Mary.

It’s my position that giving Mary too much attention and importance takes away focus on Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God the Father. I do not believe I am merely misunderstanding the teachings on Mary or have poor catechesis but am basing my concerns on my personal observations and experiences. Any assistance would be appreciated as this issue is affecting my faith as a Catholic.

1. Mariolatry? Who cares? What do I have to do with 1 billion Catholics’ own idiosyncrasies?
2. Many do this, many do that? Who cares? I am not watching what other people do! Besides, how can I judge other people’s inner feelings?
3. Do you like other people judging your behavior
   by their own schemes, saying that you this and that…?
4. Yes, Mary is my Mother, more than my own Mother. Mary is the Mother of Jesus, She is the Mother of God, God created me, so Mary is my Mother.
5. Yes, she is a separated entity, different from other saints. She is, according to the Vatican II, the Mediator between God and Man (because God wanted it).
6. Remember that Her “yes”, gave us Jesus Christ.
7. Worship Mary? Never heard of it! Would you give examples, please?
8. You seem to sense that you have got the “orthodoxy” and “others” dont. I would not dare to say the same thing of me!
9. On the contrary, the veneration, I repeat, the veneration (is it right in english?) of Mary, leads us to Jesus. She told in Canaan: “Do whatever He asks you to do!”. In the apparitions of Fatima, She always talked of Jesus.

Please, Soldier of god, would you mind to see things on the right perspective? That argument is a wasted one, used on and on throughout times and it is rusted and full of cobwebs. Please, do consider Mary your Mother, She is the Mother of God. She did not gave birth to you physically, but through Her, you were born to an Eternal Life (more worthy than the terrestrial one) in Jesus Christ.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Here are some that I’ve seen with my own eyes…

• Kissing the feet of a statue of Mary
• Prayer’s to Mary to heal and provide salvation for a person
• An admission of a person that says he worships Mary
• Crowning, adorning and kneeling before Mary’s statue

Kissing someone’s feet is a sign of respect. Martin Luther said he might have kissed the pope’s feet if he accepted sola fide.

Prayer to Mary to heal and provide salvation. Well, that might be too far with the salvation part, but I’m not entirely against the healing part. The apostles could heal people on earth by the power of God, so why can’t they in heaven? Especially the Virgin Mary, the most honorable saint there is.

Admitting they worship Mary? That is probably bad, unless they mean hyperdulia, and are referring to worship in the broad sense of the term.

Crowning of Mary? See Rev. 12:1.

See catholic.com/library/Saint_Worship.asp it does a good job and helped me understand Catholicism’s teachings better about this, and helped me explain it to my mom.

God bless.

 

[regression]

Here are some things that I’ve seen with my own eyes…

• An admission of a person that says he worships Mary

Just curious, what was your response? Did you use it as an opportunity to point out what the Church teaches?

 

[Swiss_Guy]

1. Yes, she is a separated entity, different from other saints. She is, according to the Vatican II, the Mediator between God and Man (because God wanted it).

She is not the Mediator between God and man - Jesus is (see 1 Tim. 2:5). She is a co-mediatrix because she said “yes” to God by becoming Jesus’ mother, but Jesus is the one Mediator between God and man - the only one who can bring us to God.

God Bless.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

With respect, most of these have to do with your personal FEELINGS and your interpretation and understanding–none of which may be in fact actually correct or accurate. IOW, you might. . .just might, I say. . .be wrong in your feelings, interpretations, understanding, and assessments.

And if ONE person says that he or she really worships Mary as a god, does that make all Catholics who do ANYTHING at ALL to acknowledge Mary somehow worshipping her as a God? Um, a little bit of PERSPECTIVE here, ok?

The proper thing to do with that one person is to inform the priest and have the priest give the correct teaching, not to try to be more Catholic than the Pope (or since you’re veering toward the iconoclastic, more Byzantine than the Patriarch).

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Just curious, what was your response? Did you use it as an opportunity to point out what the Church teaches?

At first I thought I misunderstood and commented that’s it’s nice he reveres her as the Mother of God. His reponse was furrowed eyebrows and a quip, “No, I worship her!”

 

[FCEGM]

What Tantum said.

 

[regression]

At first I thought I misunderstood and commented that’s it’s nice he reveres her as the Mother of God. His reponse was furrowed eyebrows and a quip, “No, I worship her!”

I like Tantum’s idea of informing the priest. Did this happen recently? Do you think it is too late to talk to this person / his priest so he can lean what the Church teaches?

 

[pablope]

At first I thought I misunderstood and commented that’s it’s nice he reveres her as the Mother of God. His reponse was furrowed eyebrows and a quip, “No, I worship her!”

Did you bother to ask what that person meant by “worship”? Context, context my friend. How do you know what is in the other person’s heart?

I heard my grandmother say before…she loves the BVM and prays for her intercession because she is “miraculous”…but she did not mean she creates miracles, but that she can cause miracles through her intercession…there are indiosyncrancies in language, different meanings and others.

Does it make Jesus jealous by the devotion and love shown to His mother? I would think not.

Jesus gave the power to forgive sins to his apostles and their successors but it does not diminish Him. Also, look through out salvation history…God uses others, intermediaries for His work, to get something good out of us.

Look at Job 42, why did God tell the 3 friends of Job to go through Job to obtain God’s forgiveness? Or look at 2Sam12, where God sends the prophel Nathan to get David to see his sin. Why did God have to send Nathan? Why did God not directly talk to David? There are numerous examples in the Bible.

 

[SonCatcher]

An admission of a person that says he worships Mary

So someone uses archaic terms:
Worship
His or Her Worship is an honorific prefix for mayors, Justices of the Peace and magistrates in Commonwealth Realms. In spoken address, these officials are addressed as Your Worship or referred to as His or Her Worship; South Africa is an exception, as the term is still used to address judges in court. In Australia all States now use Your Honour as the form of address for magistrates (the same as has always been used for judges in higher courts).

Do you know anyone who insists on saying “thee” etc, when praying?

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

With respect, most of these have to do with your personal FEELINGS and your interpretation and understanding–none of which may be in fact actually correct or accurate. IOW, you might. . .just might, I say. . .be wrong in your feelings, interpretations, understanding, and assessments.

And if ONE person says that he or she really worships Mary as a god, does that make all Catholics who do ANYTHING at ALL to acknowledge Mary somehow worshipping her as a God? Um, a little bit of PERSPECTIVE here, ok?

The proper thing to do with that one person is to inform the priest and have the priest give the correct teaching, not to try to be more Catholic than the Pope (or since you’re veering toward the iconoclastic, more Byzantine than the Patriarch).

You are correct, they are be personal feelings but these feelings are proving to be disturbing to my Catholic faith. Futhermore, that’s doesn’t discount them as being invalid nor does it mean I’m necessarily incorrect in feeling them either. Additionally, I’m not incapable of rational analysis and comprehension. I’m not taking individual instances and blowing them out of proportion. I’m taking a lifetime of personal experience and exposure.

To simply dismiss my concerns only as my misinterpretations or personal bias isn’t overly helpful with my struggle. To recognize that many Catholics do take things to far might be a more appropriate perspective. As an aside, to label me iconoclastic because I do not fall prostrate at the sight of a statue Mary isn’t very condusive to level headed discourse.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

I like Tantum’s idea of informing the priest. Did this happen recently? Do you think it is too late to talk to this person / his priest so he can lean what the Church teaches?

This happened at the last prayer meeting. He is aware of the issue.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Did you bother to ask what that person meant by “worship”? Context, context my friend. How do you know what is in the other person’s heart?

I do not know absolutely and factually what is in his heart. Regardless, reasonable doubt does not exist in my mind as to what he meant by his statement.

 

[Dorothy]

At first I thought I misunderstood and commented that’s it’s nice he reveres her as the Mother of God. His reponse was furrowed eyebrows and a quip, “No, I worship her!”

Some people do use exaggeration. Perhaps this person does not understand the exact meaning of the word worship? In any case, you have many responses which explain the authentic Catholic teaching.