There's Something About Mary

[kfinks]

An astute observation as this was an undercurrent of my concern. I wanted to contain the scope of my problem to just my personal feelings and observations but what you’ve indicated is true as well. I do not wish to deny the BVM her rightful respect, I just do not wish it to be at the expense of appropriate veneration and the worship of the Trinity.

I am not Catholic, so my experience is limited…but it seems that the Church doesn’t encourage the excesses described earlier, but it also doesn’t seem to discourage them either.

 

[LilyM]

At first I thought I misunderstood and commented that’s it’s nice he reveres her as the Mother of God. His reponse was furrowed eyebrows and a quip, “No, I worship her!”

A quip? As in a throwaway line that is more likely than not a joke? Some people have a sense of humor that consists of saying outrageous things in a deadpan way. Being in a prayer group, I’m guessing with a bunch of devout Catholics, the fellow probably thought he could trust you not to take him literally.

 

[Church_Militant]

Even if some few might err, what logic would allow us to discard the truth because of it. If one knows the truth then one has the duty to perform the work of mercy and correct them. Not abandon the faith because of them. That makes no sense.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

An astute observation as this was an undercurrent of my concern. I wanted to contain the scope of my problem to just my personal feelings and observations but what you’ve indicated is true as well. I do not wish to deny the BVM her rightful respect, I just do not wish it to be at the expense of appropriate veneration and the worship of the Trinity.

My first observation would be that your location may have a sort of rampant highly emotional devotion (in individuals,) but nothing you said indicates ANYTHING coming directly from the Church, be it at the parish level, diocesan level or national level. So try to get some perspective!

My second observation would be that there are many faults I could mention that I’ve seen at the parish level, or the diocesan level, or the national level, but among those faults I have never seen excessive devotion to the Virgin Mary being promoted or taught, not even anything remotely close! Not in the USA at least.

My last observation would be that if I could exchange the faults I do see for excessive devotion to the BVM, I would gladly enter into that bargain!

Really, even during the heightened religious fervor of the fifties, excessive devotion to the BVM was rarely if ever, a problem.

I would suggest the OP have a talk with some knowledgeable priest (or confessor.)

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Even if some few might err, what logic would allow us to discard the truth because of it. If one knows the truth then one has the duty to perform the work of mercy and correct them. Not abandon the faith because of them. That makes no sense.

I’m not intent on abandoning my faith. It would be weak of me to do so at the sight of a disharmony of thinking and practice. I’m questioning the permissiveness of the it within the Church. It affects me personally because deep down I have apprehension the Church tacitly permits and even encourages practices I perceive as idolatry.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

A quip? As in a throwaway line that is more likely than not a joke? Some people have a sense of humor that consists of saying outrageous things in a deadpan way. Being in a prayer group, I’m guessing with a bunch of devout Catholics, the fellow probably thought he could trust you not to take him literally.

Quip as in a quick retort not as a jest. I highly doubt it was intented as a jest or to be taken non-literally. I’m not ruling out, however, that as a possibility. I appreciate the (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[BlsdBGd]

thank Gd for creating the Immaculata, conceived without sin! Thanks be to Lord Jesus Christ, who at the cross, gave His mother to all of humanity, that we should honor her as our mother. Thanks be to Gd the Holy Spirit, whose spouse the Virgin Mary ever pure, intercedes before Gd on behalf of all souls (and especially those who speak ill of her). The Virgin Mary is my mother, whom I love because she brought me to Jesus, her Son. No one on earth can honour or love her more than Gd does. Praise be to Gd for His creation, the ever pure, holy, blessed Mary ever virgin - mother of all.

 

[RosaryFan]

I’m not intent on abandoning my faith. It would be weak of me to do so at the sight of a disharmony of thinking and practice. I’m questioning the permissiveness of the it within the Church. It affects me personally because deep down I have apprehension the Church tacitly permits and even encourages practices I perceive as idolatry.

However, what you perceive as idolatry is not idolatry. What the Church “tacitly permits and even encourages” with respect to the Blessed Mother is an honor which is well-deserved. God made her “full of grace” and Jesus honored her. It is not “idolatry” for us to do the same.

All of the examples you gave of “worship” are examples of honor - not worship. The Church is not in error in its teachings on Mary; your perception is what is erroneous.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

The Church is not in error in its teachings on Mary; your perception is what is erroneous.

I would hope that is the case. Regardless, there are Catholics that do err in the manner of how they conduct their veneration of Mary.

 

[RosaryFan]

I would hope that is the case. Regardless, there are Catholics that do err in the manner of how they conduct their veneration of Mary.

What gives you the impression that the Church is in error in its teaching about Mary? Have you read some Church teaching about Mary that didn’t seem right? If so, what was it?

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

What gives you the impression that the Church is in error in its teaching about Mary? Have you read some Church teaching about Mary that didn’t seem right? If so, what was it?

I apologize that I’ve given the impression that the Church formally teaches inappropriate worship of Mary or any other form of error. I do not assert that the Church actively and actually teaches Mariolatry. A part of my concern is that there may be Magisterium elements that implicitly condone Mariolatry. The other concern I have is that there are a sizeable number of Catholics in my area that undertake inappropriate adoration of the BVM, despite attempts at catechisis from the clergy. Both considerations may be as a result of my perspective based on my personal experiences.

 

[James224]

I have a personal problem with Mariolatry or what I see is Mariolatry in the Church. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to reconcile our Catholic beguilement with Mary, to the point of open worship by some members. It appears to me that many of our fellow Catholics worship her, pray to her, confess their sins to her, even to the exclusion of Jesus. Additionally, many of use consider Mary analogous to their own mother. She is a personal protector, intercession, and redemptrix.

I understand the Blessed Virgin has a separate and eminent rank (hyperdulia) among the saints to many. However, this veneration seems to go beyond what I think would be appropriate given in scripture and tradition. I’m really struggling with this as I try to maintain an orthodox interpretation of Catholicism but I cannot seem to get beyond what I see in every Catholic church I’ve ever been at, which is people openly worshiping Mary.

It’s my position that giving Mary too much attention and importance takes away focus on Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God the Father. I do not believe I am merely misunderstanding the teachings on Mary or have poor catechesis but am basing my concerns on my personal observations and experiences. Any assistance would be appreciated as this issue is affecting my faith as a Catholic.

I would put it into persepctive. There are ministries devoted to Mary that may seem to worship Mary only because Devotion to Mary is their exclusive focus. Some may use language that may seem to mean they worship Mary and actually may not. I’ve never found anyone who really worships Mary. A devotion to Mary is not worship. Usually when I hear language that sounds like the worship of Mary it’s usually taken from St Alphonsus de Liguori who is famous for saying “Mary is our salvation”. He doesn’t mean what it sounds like. He is describing our doctrine of Mary as Mediatrix of Grace or Mary as Co-Redemptrix. Understood correctly, you can say that salvation can come through Mary but, of course, ultimately, salvation comes from Christ. Instead of reading Liguori to start, I would recommend another classic, “True Devotion to Mary” by St.Louis de Monfort. It’s a little more balanced in his explanation because he had to deal with the Jansenists who were attacking him for his devotion to Mary.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Upon following the advice of CAF members, I managed to speak to my pastor yesterday. He was able to spend some time alleviate my concerns. I would like to thank the CAF membership for taking the time and effort to response to my posting.