Things i learnt in Egypt about Islam

[Jay53]

A friend of mine in Egypt insisted that men there were very well-behaved around women if they covered up properly. Insisted that they would quickly try to help her if she found herself harassed, for instance.

So it’s the woman’s fault a man acts like a pig? - for not being “covered up properly”? I’m sorry, but I don’t care what a woman is wearing - men should be able/expected to control themselves. (And no, this doesn’t mean women shouldn’t use common sense when dressing, but I highly doubt dolphinlove was parading around in lingerie or something equally objectionable in public! )

 

[bpbasilphx]

In other parts of Afghanistan young Taliban militiamencan be seen holding hands and touching each other with obvious affection.

**In fairness, this may be a simple cultural practice.

Don’t forget that American football players pat each other on the tush and hug all the time.**

 

[bpbasilphx]

. Take the latest example of Austria. Father raped own daughter for several years

**Same thing happened in Britain, MoslemWoman.

A Moslem girl was raped by her own imam father.

What do you think about that?**

 

[MelanieAnne]

So it’s the woman’s fault a man acts like a pig? - for not being “covered up properly”? I’m sorry, but I don’t care what a woman is wearing - men should be able/expected to control themselves. (And no, this doesn’t mean women shouldn’t use common sense when dressing, but I highly doubt dolphinlove was parading around in lingerie or something equally objectionable in public! )

That’s right. Men also need to take responsibility. And they do, routinely, at least in normal cultures. Because they are men.

Men can, and should be able to, conduct themselves appropriately REGARDLESS of the clothing of ANYONE else. To say otherwise is to demean the man in question, to call into question his very humanity. The difference, at least theoretically, between humans and other animals is the ability to reason. To say that a woman needs to cover herself from head to toe or otherwise a man will not be able to control himself is another way of saying that men are beasts and are not fully human and able to reason.

The Muslim ideology in this regard demeans all humans ~ both men and women ~ for the demeaning way in which both are treated.

 

[chrisse]

Welcome back, dolphinlove. Looking forward to hearing more.

A few years ago, at the end of Eid there was terrible trouble with the muslim men coming out of the mosque and harrassing women in the street. - any woman : covered or western dress. I watched a video of it, truely frightening. One woman/girl in the video (too hard to tell) was with male friends and they were protecting her, but these neanderthals were literally swarming around them. Disgusting … and this happened after the spiritually enlightening experience of mosque attendance.

But what do you expect - we have cat’s meat Moofti Poohbah Hilali downunder (he’s Egyptian) who’s gone and done it again. Caught on video tape vandalising the Lakemba Mosque - but the idiot rings the police and cat’s meat tries to blame it on “radical young extremists” in the mosque.

To anyone who is offended by the way I speak about cat’s meat Moofti Poohbah Hilali - relax, the offence he causes me by his existence in Australia makes up for it. Just google “cat’s meat hilali”.

 

[swariffin]

Ive just returned back from Egypt, actually 9 days early because of the constant hassle i received in Egypt. And in my time there, i have learnt a lot of things about Islam.
As you know, Egypt likes to maintain they are one of the easy going Islamic states in the world.
Well, this is true to certain degree. Believe me, been a Christian is not easy in that country.
From the word go, i had no interest in going to mosques etc, and they seemed to be a bit surprised by this. But the fact is, the only place that has ever seen a miracle in that country is when Mary appeared over a Church, and that is the only place i really wanted to see i Cairo.
Well, i met up with some fellow tourist, who, had been approached by men asking if he was interested in boy on boy action. Yes, they are so called conservative muslims who asked him this.
And, me being a girl, was non stopped hassled, asking my friend if he wanted to sell me for camels etc, which was very insulting as to even think they could buy me! I laughed at it more than anything, but to think this is how they offer ‘marriage’ it is scary.
After discussing with men, they think the woman should be at home looking after the family and basically breeding machines. The population of this country is growing by 1 million every 9 months, and believe me, the population is already bursting at the seams.
The men who go around saying ‘ishallah’ etc claiming to be holy men can say that in one sentence then in the next trying are been outright sleaze bags by touching inappropriately.
Anyway, this is only just the start, i will post again soon the more i remember.
dolphinlove

Welcome back and God bless you. You are lucky they did not have a chance to kidnap you. And, perhaps you don’t have a “Jewish” face, so they let you go away.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

…A Moslem girl was raped by her own imam father.

What do you think about that?

See , it’s a Muslim girl who was raped by dad who was Imam ( have not heard of this incident though ) . But when a non-Muslim dad raped daughter for years , media or u forgot to mention the religion.

 

[MelanieAnne]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

See , it’s a Muslim girl who was raped by dad who was Imam ( have not heard of this incident though ) . But when a non-Muslim dad raped daughter for years , media or u forgot to mention the religion.

Actually when the offender holds some sort of religious position, that’s generally noted in any news report.

But your response indicates you’re OK with the Imam raping his daughter?

 

[ralphinal]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

See , it’s a Muslim girl who was raped by dad who was Imam ( have not heard of this incident though ) . But when a non-Muslim dad raped daughter for years , media or u forgot to mention the religion.

This is typically done for several reasons. First, if any clergy of any faith does this, his, or her, position is noted. It makes better headlines. It does not matter what that faith his. Second, there are those who want to show that Muslims are sinners too. DO not forget the basic hypocrasy that you yourself often show, saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Muslims to sin like Christians. Finally, it is done because it grabs attention.

 

[Sister_Amy]

So it’s the woman’s fault a man acts like a pig? - for not being “covered up properly”? I’m sorry, but I don’t care what a woman is wearing - men should be able/expected to control themselves. (And no, this doesn’t mean women shouldn’t use common sense when dressing, but I highly doubt dolphinlove was parading around in lingerie or something equally objectionable in public! )

What is objectionable in Egyptian society is not the same as what is objectional in Australian or American society. There’s a huge difference.

If you walk around dressed the way a prostitute dresses, should you really be expected to be treated as anything other than a prostitute?

 

[Sister_Amy]

In other parts of Afghanistan young Taliban militiamencan be seen holding hands and touching each other with obvious affection.

**In fairness, this may be a simple cultural practice.

Don’t forget that American football players pat each other on the tush and hug all the time.**

In the West, people bizarrely phobic about contact between people of the same sex–especially between men. But Muslim men are seen hugging and it’s not rare to see them holding hands in other countries. To them the behavior is natural.

So I guess I must commend you on being right.

 

[tomarin]

In the West, people bizarrely phobic about contact between people of the same sex–especially between men. But Muslim men are seen hugging and it’s not rare to see them holding hands in other countries. To them the behavior is natural.

So I guess I must commend you on being right.

In majority-India, too, it is not unusual to see two men walking down the street arm in arm. I’ve seen soldiers doing it in Bangalore.

 

[MelanieAnne]

What is objectionable in Egyptian society is not the same as what is objectional in Australian or American society. There’s a huge difference.

If you walk around dressed the way a prostitute dresses, should you really be expected to be treated as anything other than a prostitute?

What if you’re not dressed like a prostitute, are you saying that Muslim men are still justified in behaving like pigs? Because that, no doubt, was the original situation in question.

If the answer is yes, then that doesn’t say much about Islam, that apparently condones such behavior, or men. It says that men are animals, not responsible for their behavior and unable to control their most base animalistic impulses.

 

[Sister_Amy]

What if you’re not dressed like a prostitute, are you saying that Muslim men are still justified in behaving like pigs? Because that, no doubt, was the original situation in question.

If the answer is yes, then that doesn’t say much about Islam, that apparently condones such behavior, or men. It says that men are animals, not responsible for their behavior and unable to control their most base animalistic impulses.

No, the Muslim men are not justified in acting like animals. They have been commanded to lower their gaze–regardless of whether a woman is covered head to toe, or uncovered head to toe. The obligation on them does not change.

But we aren’t talking about pious practicing Muslim men who actually care what the Qur’an says, are we? We’re talking about joes off the street who are listening to their “little brains” instead of the brains in their head, instead of their parents or to Islam.

Dolphinlove isn’t even saying she experienced this behavior in a mosque, or some place where she was around Muslims who actually follow Islam. She apparently expects that every person in a country like Egypt she encounters is going to be a devoted Muslim. It’s not true.

 

[tomarin]

What if you’re not dressed like a prostitute, are you saying that Muslim men are still justified in behaving like pigs? Because that, no doubt, was the original situation in question.

If the answer is yes, then that doesn’t say much about Islam, that apparently condones such behavior, or men. It says that men are animals, not responsible for their behavior and unable to control their most base animalistic impulses.

I don’t want to stereotype, but isn’t the whole Mediterranean area (including Catholic Italy) infamous for the kind of behavior you’re talking about (i.e. harassment of foreign women, assuming they’re “easy”, etc.)?

 

[MelanieAnne]

No, the Muslim men are not justified in acting like animals. They have been commanded to lower their gaze–regardless of whether a woman is covered head to toe, or uncovered head to toe. The obligation on them does not change.

But we aren’t talking about pious practicing Muslim men who actually care what the Qur’an says, are we? We’re talking about joes off the street who are listening to their “little brains” instead of the brains in their head, instead of their parents or to Islam.

Dolphinlove isn’t even saying she experienced this behavior in a mosque, or some place where she was around Muslims who actually follow Islam. She apparently expects that every person in a country like Egypt she encounters is going to be a devoted Muslim. It’s not true.

Actually DolphinLove referenced supposedly conservative Muslims who behaved that way.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I don’t want to stereotype, but isn’t the whole Mediterranean area (including Catholic Italy) infamous for the kind of behavior you’re talking about (i.e. harassment of foreign women, assuming they’re “easy”, etc.)?

Sure, Italians and Spaniards are famous for the forwardness, but at least they don’t blame the women for it.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Actually DolphinLove referenced supposedly conservative Muslims who behaved that way.

Was she in a mosque or something?

Or has she been given an inner eye to know what is in people’s hearts? If they are “conservative Muslims” or not?

 

[MelanieAnne]

Was she in a mosque or something?

Or has she been given an inner eye to know what is in people’s hearts? If they are “conservative Muslims” or not?

Gosh, maybe you should ask her.

You missed the point.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Gosh, maybe you should ask her.

You missed the point.

LOL

You missed more than the point.

She said upfront she didn’t even want to go to a mosque, and that this behavior was encountered in Cairo. If you say it was from “conservative Muslims” I want to know what your criteria is.

Just because someone’s Egyptian they’re a “conservative Muslim?” Bogus.