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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
He is referring to domestic partnerships that would exist in their own right as opposed to pseudo-marriages.
Think again on same sex civil unions: Cardinal Schoenborn [CNAU]
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livingwordunity
Guest
“There can be same-sex partnerships and they need respect, and even civil law protection. Yes, but please keep it away from the notion of marriage. Because the definition of marriage is the stable union between a man and a woman open to life,” Cardinal Schönborn said.
Not exactly an endorsement for so-called “gay marriage”. It sounds to me like all he’s saying is that they should be protected from any hate crimes. People are so quick to jump to the wrong conclusions whenever a bishop speaks.
Not exactly an endorsement for so-called “gay marriage”. It sounds to me like all he’s saying is that they should be protected from any hate crimes. People are so quick to jump to the wrong conclusions whenever a bishop speaks.
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Lucky7
Guest
No one is saying he means gay marrriage. They/we are saying he means civil unions. However, I did go back to re-read the article and the lifesitenews article to give the benefit of the doubt. I find his comment vague. However, some of his other comments and actions lead me to believe that he very well may have meant civil unions (not just respect and civil protection for the people).
It is this vagueness and actions that can lead others to believe the wrong thing about what a Cardinal may believe (those of us who agree with Church teaching as well as those of us who do not). It is why I have been saying over and over again that our Church needs more clarity than ever before. It is sad when we tend to assume a Cardinal is supporting teaching against the Faith…you are right about that. Unfortunately, I think that is because we’ve seen it happen so often lately.
Having said all of that, I will give this Cardinal the benefit of the doubt on this matter, but I would like to see a quote where he is very clear about civil unions as well as gay marriage. Perhaps you could provide that?
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Joe_5859
Guest
I think there’s an awful lot of reading into Cardinal Schönborn’s comments going on here. It seems to me his main point is that the dignity of human persons be respected. He’s not calling for a re-thinking of same sex unions (as the title of the article erroneously states).
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CrossofChrist
Guest
This.
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CrossofChrist
Guest
This as well.
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Lucky7
Guest
I’m still looking for this evidence. Anyone have it?
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fix
Guest
My suggestion is to stick with the authoritative documents from the Vatican. If those are contradicted then I would not accept any contradiction.
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Lucky7
Guest
I htink you misunderstand my request. I don’t need the authoritative documents as I fully understnad the Church’s teaching. I’m trying to find evidence that the Cardinal in the OP has specifically stated that he is against civil unions as well as gay marriage (because some on this thread are saying we are wrongly interpreting his latest comments in the OP). I’m okay with admitting that if there is evidence that he has been strongly against civil unions as well.
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CrossofChrist
Guest
I’m not the greatest person at searching stuff on the Internet, but I could find a link that has him against homosexual couples adopting children, which is not a small part of “civil unions”.
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Lucky7
Guest
I still think that’s two different things. Someone could be for civil unions and still be against them adopting children.
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Tigg
Guest
The problem I see is that there will always be someone who will claim that no matter the source, it is not reliable (if it just happens not to agree with their personal opinion.)
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CrossofChrist
Guest
I feel that this is addressed toward me since I have said the Tablet is not reliable, including directly in reply to one of your posts.The problem I see is that there will always be someone who will claim that no matter the source, it is not reliable (if it just happens not to agree with their personal opinion.)
I just don’t understand why people are so quick to look negatively upon a member of the hierarchy and are inclined to look at his comments in the worst light possible. When considering all that Cardinal Schoenborn has for his background, compared with the credibility of The Tablet, I’m more inclined to trust that Schoenborn isn’t supporting civil unions. Here are some of his credentials:
-student of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI
-Editorial Secretary for the Catechism of the Catholic Church
-is responsible for YOUCAT, which has the approval of Benedict XVI
-good manager of the sex abuse crisis
There’s more too, but I think that suffices.
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Joe_5859
Guest
My sentiments exactly. I think I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Tigg
Guest
Not at all. If you look closely at these threads whenever heated debate is present, you will see link after link in support of one side and the same number posted in opposition. What is credible to one is not to another and is quickly dismissed. I’m not a fan of the Tablet and no longer have reports from quite a while ago in which other concerns were raised by some much smarter than myself, regarding this same issue. Now we all know better than to believe the spin of certain publications, but having said that, we also know we are in an age of the Church where great caution and much prayer is necessary. Our beloved Benedict himself asked us for prayers of protection from the wolves inside the Church. (Please do not read something into that statement that is not there.) Cardinal Ouellet, without naming names, was quoted as saying there was a spirit of dissent among the intelligentsia.
Further, scripture tells us we are to test everything and to retain only what is good. Sensus Fidei is given by the Spirit in order that we might discern what is for the benefit of the Faith, and beware of what is not. Look around at the rebellion and attacks against faith and Tradition and you might just see the sickness from which we are to protect ourselves.
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CrossofChrist
Guest
While all of what you said is true, it’s best not to get overly protective so that we discredit good Shepherds, even when they say something that might not have been worded well. He was also speaking in the context of the moral decline of the West (i.e what his speech was about), so it would be pretty ironic if he did mean civil unions as in practically marriage.
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CommonWeal
Guest
Thank you for all the links. We must pray for Christ’s Church, which looks as though it is overrun by ignorance and moderns dressed up like Catholics. And though she has Christ’s promise, this whole gay marriage thing and the thought that some of her clergy may be open to same-sex civil unions makes me seriously sad.
Holy Virgin, pray for us.
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abucs
Guest
There are some people who think that homosexuality is a defect and as such we shouldn’t be made to support, encourage or celebrate human defects, as it is unhealthy for society.
I think this is a sensible position.
The concern i have is that this sensible position is being portrayed as a dislike of people who are homosexual and the law is being made to outlaw and demonise this reasonable position.
That is unjust, intolerant and illiberal.
I would also add that the biased press reporting and ‘emotional shaming’ on this issue is also an attack on freedom of thought, which is severely regressive.
I think this is a sensible position.
The concern i have is that this sensible position is being portrayed as a dislike of people who are homosexual and the law is being made to outlaw and demonise this reasonable position.
That is unjust, intolerant and illiberal.
I would also add that the biased press reporting and ‘emotional shaming’ on this issue is also an attack on freedom of thought, which is severely regressive.
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Lucky7
Guest
Fantastic. This is what should happen every time the media twists the words of our Church leaders. It is unfortunate that it is necessary, but it is.
Thanks for posting that Abyssnia.
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