This blows my mind

[plinko]

I’m studying for an exam on Human Embryology and I came across an interesting bit of information. Scientific estimates pin the number of spontaneous abortions in the first month of pregnancy at 50%. In other words, on average, for every time a woman gets pregnant, another woman has gotten pregnant and lost the embryo before she even knows/suspects she’s pregnant. Not only that, but the tiny little hundred-or-so celled baby, once aborted biologically, is presumably flushed down the toilet or thrown in the trash. Again, this is all before the woman has missed a period or suspects that she could be pregnant. It blows my mind that the church is concerned about haploid (and therefore biologically inert) sperm being ejected and “wasted” when how many diploid, uniquely human trophoblasts are being discarded just as nonchalantly (albeit unawares).

I don’t want to start a thread on masturbation and its “intrinsic evilness” but wow, that statistic really got to me!

 

[Moscati]

The Church doesn’t prohibit masturbation out of some worry about wasting sperm. That’s just silly.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

I’ve come across that 50% statistic, too, while working on an Medical Anthropology paper. It makes me sad, but at the same time . . . those babies usually have severe chromosomal abnormalities. They can’t develop. I trust in God’s mercy for them, as does the Church.

It’s not always nonchalant, if the parents are aware of it (and detecting these ‘chemical pregnancies’ is becoming more and more common).

 

[1ke]

I’m studying for an exam on Human Embryology and I came across an interesting bit of information. Scientific estimates pin the number of spontaneous abortions in the first month of pregnancy at 50%. In other words, on average, for every time a woman gets pregnant, another woman has gotten pregnant and lost the embryo before she even knows/suspects she’s pregnant. Not only that, but the tiny little hundred-or-so celled baby, once aborted biologically, is presumably flushed down the toilet or thrown in the trash. Again, this is all before the woman has missed a period or suspects that she could be pregnant.

This is well known, so it “blows my mind” that you are just learning of this fact of human biology.

It blows my mind that the church is concerned about haploid (and therefore biologically inert) sperm being ejected and “wasted”

It seems you have a faulty understanding of Church teaching regarding masterbation and contraception, and why they are immoral.

I don’t want to start a thread on masturbation and its “intrinsic evilness” but wow, that statistic really got to me!

It got to you, but for the entirely wrong reason, based upon a very wrong understanding of Church teaching.

 

[Doc_Keele]

Good luck - when I pointed out this widely accepted fact (about the high proportion of early pregnancy loss), I was greeted with incredulity! Some people couldn’t even understand how scientists could know that.

 

[plinko]

This is well known, so it “blows my mind” that you are just learning of this fact of human biology.

It seems you have a faulty understanding of Church teaching regarding masterbation and contraception, and why they are immoral.

It got to you, but for the entirely wrong reason, based upon a very wrong understanding of Church teaching.

1ke, I’m glad that you have had an upbringing that allowed for personal educational advances. Not all of us have the opportunity in our lives for academic pursuits. Don’t assume that because You know it, that it’s well known. Please don’t mock me; the ridicule I get in the church is one of the things slowly tearing me away from it…

I know my views on masturbation are not in line with the church’s. It will take some time, but right now, I understand the church’s point of view but I don’t agree with it. Give me time; I can’t change who I am overnight. I’m sorry if you didn’t mean it, but your post came off condescending and I was a bit offended.

 

[Corki]

1ke, I’m glad that you have had an upbringing that allowed for personal educational advances. Not all of us have the opportunity in our lives for academic pursuits. Don’t assume that because You know it, that it’s well known. Please don’t mock me; the ridicule I get in the church is one of the things slowly tearing me away from it…

9th grade public school biology class is hardly “personal educational advances”.

The wasted sperm argument is a red herring. It is not the Church’s teaching.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m studying for an exam on Human Embryology and I came across an interesting bit of information. Scientific estimates pin the number of spontaneous abortions in the first month of pregnancy at 50%. In other words, on average, for every time a woman gets pregnant, another woman has gotten pregnant and lost the embryo before she even knows/suspects she’s pregnant. Not only that, but the tiny little hundred-or-so celled baby, once aborted biologically, is presumably flushed down the toilet or thrown in the trash. Again, this is all before the woman has missed a period or suspects that she could be pregnant. It blows my mind that the church is concerned about haploid (and therefore biologically inert) sperm being ejected and “wasted” when how many diploid, uniquely human trophoblasts are being discarded just as nonchalantly (albeit unawares).

I don’t want to start a thread on masturbation and its “intrinsic evilness” but wow, that statistic really got to me!

I hate to break this to you, but I feel obligated. The statistics, when viewed with sufficient breadth, are even worse than you think.

Every last one of us will eventually die.

 

[plinko]

Mods, please close this thread. Sorry I didn’t get around to learning that stat in high school. I was merely expressing surprise, but everyone here is a jerk. Thank you for putting me in my place everyone. I’m sorry I’m a dumbass.

 

[CatofAlexandria]

Plinko,

I’m sorry that others have reacted in this way. Ridiculing this news as something “everybody knows” or something “everybody should have known in high school biology” is not only uncharitable towards you, but a bit dismissive of a rather sad and disturbing fact. Death is a serious thing. Who cares if “everybody” knows it? It doesn’t make it any less mind blowing.

Perhaps the reaction might have been better, however, if you had not used this news to criticize the Church as somehow not caring about early miscarriages because it’s too worried about “wasted” sperm. The two things, theologically, have nothing to do with each other, and, as others have said, the Church doesn’t give two hoots about sperm in the toilet.

What are we to do about this? I don’t know. I pray every night for the children I might have had and the children I will have in the future. Perhaps that’s all that we can do. May God bless you, and good luck on your upcoming exam!

 

[1ke]

1ke, I’m glad that you have had an upbringing that allowed for personal educational advances. Not all of us have the opportunity in our lives for academic pursuits. Don’t assume that because You know it, that it’s well known. Please don’t mock me; the ridicule I get in the church is one of the things slowly tearing me away from it…

I am sorry you felt mock, and sorry if my post came across as uncharitable.

I know my views on masturbation are not in line with the church’s. It will take some time, but right now, I understand the church’s point of view but I don’t agree with it.

I don’t know what your views are regarding masterbation. You have not stated them.

What you did state is an entirely false assertion regarding why the Church teaches masterbation is intriniscally evil.

You set up a comparison between miscarriages and masterbatory ejaculations. They are not related, theologically or morally. Conclusions drawn from a false premise are themselves flawed.

Give me time; I can’t change who I am overnight.

If you want to discuss what the Church actually teaches about the sixth commandment, we’ll be happy to do so.

But, there is no use discussing why the Church “cares” about “wasted sperm” when this is not the underlying premise of the Church’s teaching on the topic.

The Church does not “care” about “wasted sperm.” Therefore, no comparison can be made as to whether they care “more” about “wasted sperm” than they do about children of miscarriages. There is no comparison to be made.

I’m sorry if you didn’t mean it, but your post came off condescending and I was a bit offended.

I am sorry I offended you.

 

[presidentjlh]

The natural “abortion” (there’s bound to be a better word for it) is not a sin, for it is in code with nature, being that it is something that is done through a natural process that people don’t control.

 

[kage_ar]

God gives life, God takes away life. Our life belongs to God, it is His to take in His time.

He has determined a time for each of us to die.

For some, it is one second after conception, for some it is 10 days after conception, for some it is 97 years after birth.

We sin when we take life and do not leave the ending of that life to God.

 

[Wired]

We also sin when we don’t respect the proper use of the awesome ability we have to share with God in the creation of new life. It is the misuse of that power that the Church opposes when she calls contraception, masturbation, abortion, fornication, and adultery sins. The only acceptable place for sexual expression is with a valid marriage and each expression must be open to the possibility of new life… Hope that helps you to understand the Church’s teaching, Plinko. It’s not about the Church thinking sex is a bad thing, it’s about the Church understanding what an incredibly good thing sex is that makes the Church so adamant that we must respect it so much. Sex is sacred. It isn’t intended for any other use other than the most intimate way for a married couple to express their love for one another in a totally giving manner… That’s why deliberate sexual sins are grave matter.

 

[Joya]

This is well known, so it “blows my mind” that you are just learning of this fact of human biology.

It seems you have a faulty understanding of Church teaching regarding masterbation and contraception, and why they are immoral.

It got to you, but for the entirely wrong reason, based upon a very wrong understanding of Church teaching.

What blows my mind, 1 ke, is how uncharitably cynical you are in your responses.

 

[lizaanne]

What blows my mind, 1 ke, is how uncharitably cynical you are in your responses.

That is not cynicism that is speaking the Truth, without bells and whistles, without warm and fuzzy hand holding. Some folks can take it, some can’t. She apologized, what esle do you want?

~Liza

 

[curlycool89]

I’m studying for an exam on Human Embryology and I came across an interesting bit of information. Scientific estimates pin the number of spontaneous abortions in the first month of pregnancy at 50%. In other words, on average, for every time a woman gets pregnant, another woman has gotten pregnant and lost the embryo before she even knows/suspects she’s pregnant. Not only that, but the tiny little hundred-or-so celled baby, once aborted biologically, is presumably flushed down the toilet or thrown in the trash. Again, this is all before the woman has missed a period or suspects that she could be pregnant. It blows my mind that the church is concerned about haploid (and therefore biologically inert) sperm being ejected and “wasted” when how many diploid, uniquely human trophoblasts are being discarded just as nonchalantly (albeit unawares).

I don’t want to start a thread on masturbation and its “intrinsic evilness” but wow, that statistic really got to me!

First I don’t think there’s such a think as a “spontaneous abortion”. An abortion is by definition a willed act (ie an active, consented process) to kill the baby.

I believe we would call this a miscarriage. It’s tragic, but as someone pointed out above God is the giver of life and life is His to take away.

 

[Doc_Keele]

First I don’t think there’s such a think as a “spontaneous abortion”. An abortion is by definition a willed act (ie an active, consented process) to kill the baby.

I believe we would call this a miscarriage. It’s tragic, but as someone pointed out above God is the giver of life and life is His to take away.

No, there very definitely is such a thing as a spontaneous abortion:thumbsup:

 

[curlycool89]

No, there very definitely is such a thing as a spontaneous abortion:thumbsup:

That is different than a miscarriage? Example? Proof? Peer reviewed study?

Otherwise it’s just using emotionally charged language to manipulate people’s feelings. An abortion implies a grave wrongdoing on the part of the mother (or at least on someone if she was manipulated) and it also implies that the mother should feel guilty for something. The truth is that miscarriages happen, and they are incredibly sad and they feel all wrong, but there’s nothing you can do about it short of holding up every women who gets pregnant for 9 months until she gives birth (and that we are not morally require to do).

 

[choose_to_love]

Curly, I’m pretty sure Doc is right on this, and he is not being manipulative. I believe that is an accepted medical term, i.e., the medical chart doesn’t necessarily say “miscarriage” but rather spontaneous abortion.

 

[st_lucy]

I’m studying for an exam on Human Embryology and I came across an interesting bit of information. Scientific estimates pin the number of spontaneous abortions in the first month of pregnancy at 50%. In other words, on average, for every time a woman gets pregnant, another woman has gotten pregnant and lost the embryo before she even knows/suspects she’s pregnant. Not only that, but the tiny little hundred-or-so celled baby, once aborted biologically, is presumably flushed down the toilet or thrown in the trash. Again, this is all before the woman has missed a period or suspects that she could be pregnant. It blows my mind that the church is concerned about haploid (and therefore biologically inert) sperm being ejected and “wasted” when how many diploid, uniquely human trophoblasts are being discarded just as nonchalantly (albeit unawares).

I don’t want to start a thread on masturbation and its “intrinsic evilness” but wow, that statistic really got to me!

As a mother who has several miscarriages, I am well aware of the fact that there is probably more children that i have that I am not made aware of yet. God, has allowed me to beware of those precious few I have lost before birth for a reason.

To compare a miscarriage to masturbation is very uncharitable and insensitive. I hope and pray that as you grow up in life you will learn to remedy this attitude, especially if you decide to become a Dr. It is hard enough for women who have suffered as I have, to have that insensitive Dr. who will mock our miscarriage. And yes it has happened.