This blows my mind

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curlycool89 said:
That is different than a miscarriage? Example? Proof? Peer reviewed study?
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Natural abortion = miscarriage.

Induced abortion = abortion.

I have a friend who is a nursing student, and she says that these are the medical terms.
 
curlycool89 said:
That is different than a miscarriage? Example? Proof? Peer reviewed study?

Otherwise it’s just using emotionally charged language to manipulate people’s feelings.
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A spontaneous abortion is the medical term for a miscarriage. It’s not emotionally charged language. It’s just a medical term. Not sure why this is an issue.
 
curlycool89 said:
That is different than a miscarriage? Example? Proof? Peer reviewed study?

Otherwise it’s just using emotionally charged language to manipulate people’s feelings. An abortion implies a grave wrongdoing on the part of the mother (or at least on someone if she was manipulated) and it also implies that the mother should feel guilty for something. The truth is that miscarriages happen, and they are incredibly sad and they feel all wrong, but there’s nothing you can do about it short of holding up every women who gets pregnant for 9 months until she gives birth (and that we are not morally require to do).
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My proof is the medical dictionary
It’s on the shelf under “Medical Dictionary”:cool:
 
curlycool89 said:
First I don’t think there’s such a think as a “spontaneous abortion”. An abortion is by definition a willed act (ie an active, consented process) to kill the baby.

I believe we would call this a miscarriage. It’s tragic, but as someone pointed out above God is the giver of life and life is His to take away.
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My Webster’s defines abortion as “to miscarry in birth. to come to nothing”. It doesn’t mention intent or willful act. I’m not a doctor by any means, but I believe that “spontaneous abortion” is the correct terminology.
 
1ke said:
A spontaneous abortion is the medical term for a miscarriage. It’s not emotionally charged language. It’s just a medical term. Not sure why this is an issue.
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Exactly.

That is why the Catechism uses the specific term “procured abortion”.
 
plinko said:
I don’t want to start a thread on masturbation and its “intrinsic evilness” but wow, that statistic really got to me!
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Agreed, that number blew my mind when I first heard about it! That would suggest that more than half of the souls in heaven have never drawn a breath.

Wow. That’s a hard thought to get my arms around…!
 
Major_Tom said:
Agreed, that number blew my mind when I first heard about it! That would suggest that more than half of the souls in heaven have never drawn a breath.

Wow. That’s a hard thought to get my arms around…!
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We trust the unbaptized souls of babies to God. We do not know that they are in heaven.
 
kage_ar said:
We trust the unbaptized souls of babies to God. We do not know that they are in heaven.
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You are free to trust that.

On the other hand, to think that they may be anywhere else is bizarre beyond any understanding of mine.
 
kage_ar said:
We trust the unbaptized souls of babies to God. We do not know that they are in heaven.
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True, but reason strongly implies that they are in heaven.

It’s neither certain nor not binding, but reviewing what we know of God & what we know of the children, I find that logic points in a reassuring direction.
  • We know that God is merciful.
  • We know that God wills ALL to be saved.
  • We know that children who die in the womb are unable to have received baptism.

    IMHO, I suspect that either the “Baptism of Desire” or the “Baptism of Blood” would be credited to those children, & they are welcomed into heaven immediately.
 
Doc_Keele said:
My proof is the medical dictionary
It’s on the shelf under “Medical Dictionary”:cool:
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Than I apologize, because I had never heard a miscarriage called a spontaneous abortion before (I thought that miscarriage was the medical term). You learn something new everyday.😊
kage_ar said:
We trust the unbaptized souls of babies to God. We do not know that they are in heaven.
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I know I can agree with this though. We don’t know for sure. We do now know that it isn’t limbo.
 
curlycool89 said:
Than I apologize, because I had never heard a miscarriage called a spontaneous abortion before (I thought that miscarriage was the medical term). You learn something new everyday.😊
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NP:)
miscarriage is generally used because people confuse the term “abortion” with “procured abortion”, as kage_ar alluded to
 
plinko said:
I’m studying for an exam on Human Embryology and I came across an interesting bit of information. Scientific estimates pin the number of spontaneous abortions in the first month of pregnancy at 50%. In other words, on average, for every time a woman gets pregnant, another woman has gotten pregnant and lost the embryo before she even knows/suspects she’s pregnant. Not only that, but the tiny little hundred-or-so celled baby, once aborted biologically, is presumably flushed down the toilet or thrown in the trash. Again, this is all before the woman has missed a period or suspects that she could be pregnant. It blows my mind that the church is concerned about haploid (and therefore biologically inert) sperm being ejected and “wasted” when how many diploid, uniquely human trophoblasts are being discarded just as nonchalantly (albeit unawares).

I don’t want to start a thread on masturbation and its “intrinsic evilness” but wow, that statistic really got to me!
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I wonder how many of these “sponaneous abortions” are caused by the pill?
 
mark_a said:
I wonder how many of these “sponaneous abortions” are caused by the pill?
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The pill prevents pregnancy; it doesn’t terminate one once conception occurs. Some argue that while the pill may just prevent implantation and not fertilization, recent studies have shown this mechanism to be false. Therefore, no spontaneous abortions are the result of the pill.

In regards to my original posting, it was late at night, I was sleep deprived and I was amazed by the wonders of human biology. To the woman who found me offensive, all I can say is sorry. I’m not really sure what I did. I’ve changed my religion to reflect the fact that I know I’m not in concordance with the philosophies of the church, so maybe that will help people understand where I’m coming from a bit more and not be so harsh to me.
 
plinko said:
The pill prevents pregnancy; it doesn’t terminate one once conception occurs. Some argue that while the pill may just prevent implantation and not fertilization, recent studies have shown this mechanism to be false. Therefore, no spontaneous abortions are the result of the pill.
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Then every pharm company is lying in the literature!

Look on line, the manufacturers say that the pill prevents implantation. All of them, every single one.
 
curlycool89 said:
First I don’t think there’s such a think as a “spontaneous abortion”. An abortion is by definition a willed act (ie an active, consented process) to kill the baby.

.
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yes, there is, this is the medical term for a pregancy that terminates before term, spontaneously, without any intentional intervention. that is what the word “spontaneous” means. You are referring to deliberate abortion. The adjectives are important.
 
kage_ar said:
Then every pharm company is lying in the literature!

Look on line, the manufacturers say that the pill prevents implantation. All of them, every single one.
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If there is no implantation, there is no pregnancy. Common sense!
 
plinko said:
I know my views on masturbation are not in line with the church’s. It will take some time, but right now, I understand the church’s point of view but I don’t agree with it. Give me time; I can’t change who I am overnight. I’m sorry if you didn’t mean it, but your post came off condescending and I was a bit offended.
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I would imagine it boils down to intention.

There is no intention, nor full consent nor full knowledge when a woman miscarries. When someone decides to “audition their finger puppets” they are intending… well… you know.

Its sad that these lives are lost, but they are known to God, and while the mother may not have their body to mourn, they are known to God and died naturally. I mean, its similar to when a woman miscarries at a later date and knows she is pregnant, she can loose the child down the toilet just as easily as a blastocyst.
 
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