This is Islam

[Deus_Vult]

Here are some hadiths about wife beating.

Umar reported the Prophet as saying, “A man will not be asked about why he beat his wife.” (Mishkat Al-Masabih, p. 693: Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah)

… Umar then came forward, and when he had asked and had been granted permission he found the Prophet sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He told that he decided to say something which would make the Prophet laugh, so he said, “Messenger of God, I wish you had seen the daughter of Kharija when she asked me for extra money and I got up and slapped her on the neck.” God’s messenger laughed and said, “They are around me as you see asking for extra money.” Abu Bakr then got up, went to A’isha and slapped her on the neck, and Umar did the same to Hafsa … (Mishkat Al-Masabih, p. 690: Muslim)

Iyas b. Abdullah reported God’s messenger as saying, “Do not beat God’s handmaidens” but when Umar came to God’s messenger and said, “The women have become emboldened towards their husbands”, he gave licence to beat them. Then many women went round God’s messenger’s family complaining of their husbands. Those are not the best among you. (Mishkat Al-Masabih, p. 692: Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, and Darimi)

 

[Deus_Vult]

Muhammad beat his wives.

… He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was ‘A’isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi’. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A’isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly? … (Muslim: book 4, hadith 2127)

 

[Deus_Vult]

Maryam V.:

Yes, your soldiers are in the front lines with the sword…pray tell me where? in Iraq? in Afghanistan? in the Philippines? killing the women and children there - giving sovereign nations a dose of chemo-therapy perhaps?

Pray as much as you want - and call others, too…but the “cancer” will spread as these people who believe in this “cancer” worship none other than the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that’s in between them.

Consider this: the incident reported in Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:7 and Luke 18:18, in which Jesus says: ***“Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” ***
Pretty explicit statements, yes? Now, where in that answer (or anywhere else in the Bible for that matter) does it say that one has to “accept Jesus as their Lord and Personal Savior” for them to get to heaven? That should cause you greater concern rather than bothering yourself with Islam’s teaching of worshipping Allah without any partners.

Maryam V.

You are correct it does not say that in the Bible…that would be a good one for you to use on some Fundamentalists and Evangelicals…but not Roman Catholics.

Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.

For many Fundamentalists and Evangelicals it makes no difference—as far as salvation is concerned—how you live or end your life. You can heed the altar call at church, announce that you’ve accepted Jesus as your personal Savior, and, so long as you really believe it, you’re set. From that point on there is nothing you can do, no sin you can commit, no matter how heinous, that will forfeit your salvation. You can’t undo your salvation, even if you wanted to. catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp

 

[Munawar]

RyanL:

Surah 4:34
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Hi Ryan,

Thanks for posting that link. I’d like to go into the details of this verse. I’ve provided a better translation below. My breakdown is a little long winded, but it comes to a conclusion:

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).”
(4:34)

So the admonishment against women, only applies to certain women. Specifically those that “ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct”. This admonishment can only be carried out by a man who ALSO is not in “disloyalty and ill-conduct”. He must be at a higher state, in order to correct his wife.

Now if a just man, finds his wife disloyal and with illconduct, then he needs to correct her, or it will cause chaos in the household.

His process is simple.

1. “Admonish them (first)” - Talk to them, get angry at them, explain to them the consequences of their actions. This period can take days to weeks. It happens first.
2. “(Next), refuse to share their beds” - If she won’t listen to reason, and is still doing ‘illconduct’, then the man should discontinue all intimate relations with the women. No kissing, hugging, or physical conduct.

If the women is sincere, she will right away feel the loss of her companion. This period should also last several days to weeks.

1. “(And last) beat them (lightly)” - If a women will not listen to reason, nor does she care about her husbands companionship, then this women is in complete rebellion. This women needs to be reminded that her husband has physical superiority over her. This show of force brings her back to reality. Her husband is so unhappy with her behavior that he has resorted to physical violence

The line “Beat them” has been discussed ad-naseum by the scholars of Islam, and the verdict has always been “not hitting”. This process is a show of force, but does NOT include slapping, hitting or punching. This verse means physical intimidation. Pushing or shoving with force. There should be no bruising or skin marks after this encounter. This is the last step in the reconciliation process.

And after it is all said and done, the Prophet (Who had did have marital problems like most people), never raised his hands against his wives, nor did he ever beat his wives, nor did he allow it in the Muslims.

If a women even then won’t listen, then divorce is the next step. Reread the verse in question, and reflect. I think you’ll find that it has less to do with male superioirty then it does with a reconciliation process in a household. The same process is true in reverse for a man. If he is in disobedience, then the women has many rights, including bringing her family into the picture to “rough up” the husband.

The point here is that this verse is not establishing a barnyard environment where women are treated any way the man wishes.

Munawar

 

[Munawar]

Deus Vult:

Qur’an 5:41 “Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them and then torture them.”
Has Yahweh ever practiced deception? What spirit would concent to deceive? Think about it.

This has already been quoted in the thread…try reading the entire thread or better yet you may want to try reading your Quran.

He Deus Vult,

Where did you get that verse from? Verse 5:41 is not as you quoted. It is:

“O Messenger! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.” 5:41

usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html

Munawar

 

[Munawar]

TarAshly:

The most alarming is a 1990 amendment removing most penalties on ‘honor killings’ in which husband, brothers, or fathers killed women suspected of sexual misconduct to save the families’ ‘honor,’ according to the BBC article. Girls as young as 11 and 12 years old can be marked—even victims of rape, according to a April 19, 2003 Toronto Star article and a Pakistan Newswire article on Dec. 11, 2002. The Religion Beat Article

Hi TarAshly,

Was this 1990 Amendment issued by the Governing body of Islamic Scholars throughout the world? Or was it issued by a specific state which has no allegiance to Islamic Law?

Islamic Law does not allow honor killings.

Munawar

 

[Munawar]

“Wives of the Prophet, you are not like other women… Stay in your homes and do not display your finery as women used to do in the days of ignorance4” The Confederate Tribes 33:31

Hi TarAshly,

This verse is speaking to the Wives of the Prophet, who are not like other women. Read two verse before:

“O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word.” (31:32)

“Prophet, We have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom God has given you as booty; the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts who fled with you…” The Confederate Tribes 33:50-

Right - I dont see anything in this verse that relates to what we are talking about.

“You may put off any of your wives you please and take to your bed any of them you please. Nor is it unlawful for you to receive any of those whom you have temporarily set aside. That is more proper, so that they may be contented and not vexed, and may all be pleased with what you give them.” The Confederate Tribes 33:51

I dont see any issue here TarAshly - A man has a right to sleep with the wife he chooses to…esspecially if he has several.

“Prophet, enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers to draw their veils close round them. That is more proper, so that they may be recognized and not be molested. God is ever forgiving and merciful.” The Confederate Tribes 33:59

This verse is calling women to modesty…

“Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it.” The Cow 2:216

Which has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Please read the verses surrounding this verse, and the context in which it was revealed. “Fighting” applies to warfare when required (ie in defense of Muslims). So - in this application, Fighting when required, is obligatory.

TarAshly:

“Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the hereafter, fight for the cause of God; whoever fights for the cause of God, whether he dies or triumphs, on him We shall bestow a rich recompense.” Women 4:74

Fighting for the cause of God is a good thing. Do you not think so?

Munawar

 

[TarAshly]

Maryam V.:

Yes, your soldiers are in the front lines with the sword…pray tell me where? in Iraq? in Afghanistan? in the Philippines? killing the women and children there - giving sovereign nations a dose of chemo-therapy perhaps?

Pray as much as you want - and call others, too…but the “cancer” will spread as these people who believe in this “cancer” worship none other than the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that’s in between them.

Consider this: the incident reported in Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:7 and Luke 18:18, in which Jesus says: ***“Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” ***
Pretty explicit statements, yes? Now, where in that answer (or anywhere else in the Bible for that matter) does it say that one has to “accept Jesus as their Lord and Personal Savior” for them to get to heaven? That should cause you greater concern rather than bothering yourself with Islam’s teaching of worshipping Allah without any partners.

Maryam V.

i can tell you, “no one goes to the Father except through me. I am the way and the life” sorry i dont know where exactly in the bible it says that but it does say that. God is a trinity. Father Son and Holy Spirit. you cant have one without the other.

 

[TarAshly]

Munawar:

Hi TarAshly,

This verse is speaking to the Wives of the Prophet, who are not like other women. Read two verse before:

“O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word.” (31:32)

Right - I dont see anything in this verse that relates to what we are talking about.

I dont see any issue here TarAshly - A man has a right to sleep with the wife he chooses to…esspecially if he has several.

This verse is calling women to modesty…

Which has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Please read the verses surrounding this verse, and the context in which it was revealed. “Fighting” applies to warfare when required (ie in defense of Muslims). So - in this application, Fighting when required, is obligatory.

Fighting for the cause of God is a good thing. Do you not think so?

Munawar

You dont see it because you dont want to see it, you are blinded by a false truth. a blindness that only God, Christ and the Holy Spirit can remove to make you see the way the truth and the life.

 

[BobCatholic]

Munawar:

80% of the Muslims on this Earth are Sunni Muslims. Shiite make up 12%. After that you have very small sects.

So which one is correct? Which one was the “original” one? They’ll all make that claim.

How to determine which interpretation to follow? The same for any religion.

Which is…what? The question wasn’t answered. Are we required to “lean on our own understanding”?

How do I determine a good Catholic from a bad one? The one that follows what his book tells him.

Non sequitur.

People can be in the true faith but practice it incorrectly. People can be in a false faith and have the appearance of holiness.

A religion should be judged by the truthfulness not by how people practice it. If a religion’s truthfulness were based on the perfection of the people who claim to practice it, then all religions are false since there is no religion with 100% pure adherents.

 

[Deus_Vult]

Munawar:

He Deus Vult,

Where did you get that verse from? Verse 5:41 is not as you quoted. It is:

“O Messenger! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.” 5:41

usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html

Munawar

I got it from an earlier quote in the thread…not my own finding…my bad It was obviously someone paraphrasing the text. So I will give it a go…

O Messenger! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say “We believe” with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie, That discriminates a whole race, no matter if that statement were of the Africans, the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, the Japanese, the French, the Arabs, or any other – it is discrimination. That statement clearly violates International and humanitarian laws. It is clearly deception.

 

[Deus_Vult]

Munawar:

Hi Ryan,

Thanks for posting that link. I’d like to go into the details of this verse. I’ve provided a better translation below. My breakdown is a little long winded, but it comes to a conclusion:

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).”
(4:34)

So the admonishment against women, only applies to certain women. Specifically those that “ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct”. This admonishment can only be carried out by a man who ALSO is not in “disloyalty and ill-conduct”. He must be at a higher state, in order to correct his wife.

Now if a just man, finds his wife disloyal and with illconduct, then he needs to correct her, or it will cause chaos in the household.

His process is simple.

1. “Admonish them (first)” - Talk to them, get angry at them, explain to them the consequences of their actions. This period can take days to weeks. It happens first.
2. “(Next), refuse to share their beds” - If she won’t listen to reason, and is still doing ‘illconduct’, then the man should discontinue all intimate relations with the women. No kissing, hugging, or physical conduct.

If the women is sincere, she will right away feel the loss of her companion. This period should also last several days to weeks.

1. “(And last) beat them (lightly)” - If a women will not listen to reason, nor does she care about her husbands companionship, then this women is in complete rebellion. This women needs to be reminded that her husband has physical superiority over her. This show of force brings her back to reality. Her husband is so unhappy with her behavior that he has resorted to physical violence

The line “Beat them” has been discussed ad-naseum by the scholars of Islam, and the verdict has always been “not hitting”. This process is a show of force, but does NOT include slapping, hitting or punching. This verse means physical intimidation. Pushing or shoving with force. There should be no bruising or skin marks after this encounter. This is the last step in the reconciliation process.

And after it is all said and done, the Prophet (Who had did have marital problems like most people), never raised his hands against his wives, nor did he ever beat his wives, nor did he allow it in the Muslims.

If a women even then won’t listen, then divorce is the next step. Reread the verse in question, and reflect. I think you’ll find that it has less to do with male superioirty then it does with a reconciliation process in a household. The same process is true in reverse for a man. If he is in disobedience, then the women has many rights, including bringing her family into the picture to “rough up” the husband.

The point here is that this verse is not establishing a barnyard environment where women are treated any way the man wishes.

Munawar

Beat them lightly come on…would spanking be appropriate… *In some translations beat them is *“strike them” (idribuhunna)…you mentioned it doesnt mean strike but pushing is OK…I think not…In the most countries that would still contitute abuse. Can you address the Wife Beating Hadiths I mentioned earlier on.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Hello Munawar,

I am glad you have found our site. As you suggested I have visited yours as well. I was hoping you could answer a question for me?

It has to do with Sura 2:106…

“Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things”?

I guess I question why God would need to change His mind? Especially considering the relatively short timeframe that Muhammed was given these words.

Second, is there an accompanying book to the Qur’an that provides context? My Bible offers this within the margins. Is there a Qur’an translation that is similar?

Peace

 

[tom.wineman]

The true test.
Go to a Moslem country where Islam rules, say Saudi Arabia or Syria, and practice your Christian faith, maybe do a little proselytizing, and see first hand how much the Quran teaches about love.

 

[elizabeth4truth]

Deus Vult:

Beat them lightly come on…would spanking be appropriate… *In some translations beat them is *“strike them” (idribuhunna)…you mentioned it doesnt mean strike but pushing is OK…I think not…In the most countries that would still contitute abuse. Can you address the Wife Beating Hadiths I mentioned earlier on.

Hello Deus Vult,

The idea of discipline is curious. It seems to be a matter of who insites who, to violence. I am reminded of when I was young. My sister spit on me and so I spit on her, in return. Normally my Mom would discipline us but on this occasion, my dad was the only one home to manage the situation. He took us both and explained he had to punish us to show us spitting is wrong. He spanked my sister twice because she spit first and me once because I retaliated. I don’t know if this was just but I appreciated his explanation that he was attempting to do what was best for us and to teach us a valuable lesson.

I do not condone the beating or physical abuse of anyone but, in the case stated above, was this an example of abuse or a parent trying to help his children learn what is right and wrong? I prefer the later.

As a grown woman, I’m aware of the times my being wants to become unruly. When I allow my behavior to become thus, I dishonor not only my God but my husband and myself. It is a matter of pride. Men suffer from this same temptation but who will beat them? I think God will, in one way or another.

I believe I will be judged on how well I attempted to love The Lord, our God, with all my mind, heart and strength. As a wife, I am called to obedience through the writings of the Holy Torah and the Holy Bible (Ephesians 5:21-34) and possibly the Holy Quran (I have not read it yet) For now the best I can do is try to understand how God desires my self-discipline and if that means help from my husband, I am willing to accept His decree.

Peace to you,
Elizabeth

 

[Deus_Vult]

elizabeth4truth:

Hello Deus Vult,

The idea of discipline is curious. It seems to be a matter of who insites who, to violence. I am reminded of when I was young. My sister spit on me and so I spit on her, in return. Normally my Mom would discipline us but on this occasion, my dad was the only one home to manage the situation. He took us both and explained he had to punish us to show us spitting is wrong. He spanked my sister twice because she spit first and me once because I retaliated. I don’t know if this was just but I appreciated his explanation that he was attempting to do what was best for us and to teach us a valuable lesson.

I do not condone the beating or physical abuse of anyone but, in the case stated above, was this an example of abuse or a parent trying to help his children learn what is right and wrong? I prefer the later.

As a grown woman, I’m aware of the times my being wants to become unruly. When I allow my behavior to become thus, I dishonor not only my God but my husband and myself. It is a matter of pride. Men suffer from this same temptation but who will beat them? I think God will, in one way or another.

I believe I will be judged on how well I attempted to love The Lord, our God, with all my mind, heart and strength. As a wife, I am called to obedience through the writings of the Holy Torah and the Holy Bible (Ephesians 5:21-34) and possibly the Holy Quran (I have not read it yet) For now the best I can do is try to understand how God desires my self-discipline and if that means help from my husband, I am willing to accept His decree.

Peace to you,
Elizabeth

I think I was misunderstood…I was referring to abuse of ones spouse. Not the disiplining of ones children. I do not disagree with how your father disiplined his children. But I do not think the way a man disiplines children should then be ok for his wife. Scripture tells us otherwise…

22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansinga] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. Ephesians 5:22-33 NIV

This is how I treat my beautiful loving wonderful mother of our four children and she likewise. I would never strike my wife nor her I…nor strike (“lightly”) It is wrong. If I were to strike my spouse I would have to answer to God for this sin.

 

[Deus_Vult]

elizabeth4truth:

Hello Deus Vult,

I believe I will be judged on how well I attempted to love The Lord, our God, with all my mind, heart and strength. As a wife, I am called to obedience through the writings of the Holy Torah and the Holy Bible (Ephesians 5:21-34) and possibly the Holy Quran (I have not read it yet) For now the best I can do is try to understand how God desires my self-discipline and if that means help from my husband, I am willing to accept His decree.

Peace to you,
Elizabeth

Hey you did mention Ephesians my thoughts exactly…I do have one question…I have read the Quran but I am not called to any obedience of it. You say you are Roman Catholic why do feel you would be obligated to heed ANY of it? In fact they harshly judge Jews and Christians in it. You either are Roman Catholic or not Roman Catholic. Please do not take this the wrong way…maybe I took what you said wrongly. Maybe you are still searching? You will be in my prayers and God will guide you in yours. Peace be with you.

 

[Shinobu]

TarAshly:

i can tell you, “no one goes to the Father except through me. I am the way and the life” sorry i dont know where exactly in the bible it says that but it does say that. God is a trinity. Father Son and Holy Spirit. you cant have one without the other.

I’m glad you said this, because no one else who posted seemed to say this. This is indeed in the Bible. God himself says, “This is my son, with whom I am pleased” (not exact quote but it states the same idea). Why is this and many other reference seemingly lost to so many?

I don’t have much of a problem with Muslims, I just can’t say I agree with them. The problems I have viewed in this topic are that their answers are always the same, everything needs to be explained, it reminds me of Sola Scripture. Sola Scripture can never be “wrong” because the person can always come up with their own interpretation (which are numerous).

As it is now, I can not come to know the fullness of truth in Islam. I simply cannot deny the many ages of Judaism and I cannot deny the 2,000 + years of Catholocism. I simply cannot deny that the Old Testament eluded to the New and the New fullfilled the Old.

You can say I’m deluded, but I could say the same to you for in the end we are really one of the same. People who adamantly believe in our faith.

 

[elizabeth4truth]

Deus Vult:

I think I was misunderstood…
This is how I treat my beautiful loving wonderful mother of our four children and she likewise. I would never strike my wife nor her I…nor strike (“lightly”) It is wrong. If I were to strike my spouse I would have to answer to God for this sin.

Dear Deus Vult,

I agree 100% abuse is wrong. When I think back on my parochial school days; back in the day when nuns hit us with rulers and the Mother Superior (God have mercy on her) had a bull whip hung up behind her desk, I am reminded that people often confuse their position of power with entitlement and abuse often follows. Those who should nourish our spirits often take self first and do more harm then good or out of shear frustration choose violence as the quickest means to an end.

I agree too, that should any man abuse his wife, he will have to answer to God for his sin. Likewise, any wife that rebels, against her husband, will have to answer to God also.

Ephesians 5:21-34 explains the necessity of both parties to obey God’s design. But while the husband is told to “love his wife”, the wife is told to “obey her husband” this is why there is a need for discipline. A man that truly loves his wife will not discipline, for his own gain, but for the gain of her soul to glorify God.

It sounds as though you have the ideal situation, in your marriage. You love your wife and she obeys your leadership? Praise God for your blessed union. I have the same.

Peace to you,
Elizabeth

 

[Deus_Vult]

elizabeth4truth:

Dear Deus Vult,

I agree 100% abuse is wrong. When I think back on my parochial school days; back in the day when nuns hit us with rulers and the Mother Superior (God have mercy on her) had a bull whip hung up behind her desk, I am reminded that people often confuse their position of power with entitlement and abuse often follows. Those who should nourish our spirits often take self first and do more harm then good or out of shear frustration choose violence as the quickest means to an end.

Elizabeth

I was hit with rulers in public school…corporal punishment was universal in the past…you seem bitter about your Catholic School upbringing. You seem like a pretty good person I am sure you have forgiven them…I have forgiven my teachers and I feel much better about it today. I hope you dont blame the Church for the wrongdoings of a few bitter old nuns. There are just as many good nuns as those who abuse their posistion. May God Bless you and Peace be with you.