This is terrifying - Could this be the end of the Church in America?

  • Thread starter Thread starter lizaanne
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Some people just have too much time on their hands. 😦
yeah, really…

its’ like… ***We don’t live like those real Christians do, so someone is wrong here and i just can’t believe its us liberal “Catholics”… so let’s make that blasted Roman Catholic Church conform to our way of thinking… We have the $$ & the time to do this… After all, we don’t have any children to raise since we aborted them all… ***

:rolleyes:
 
I really thought this quote from ACC’s website (about the “council” meeting in Minnesota) was telling…
Ultimately, the only pre-requisites to “membership” and “participation” were (1) commitment to the principles of Vatican II (i.e. the rights and responsibilities of all the baptized) and (2) a willingness to participate in the process.*
  • This qualification decision was made to ensure that groups committed to a pre-Vatican II restoration of a clerical, hierarchical Church or who rejected the roles and responsibilities of all baptized did not attempt to co-opt or abort the Council. We realized that the importance of Vatican II was often lost on Catholics born after the 1950s—but we decided that we could articulate the principles of Vatican II without focusing on the Vatican Council itself.
Do these people think Vatican II eliminated “a clerical, hierarchical Church”? Where is that in the council documents? What’s that? No where? Obviously, it must be supported by the “principles of Vatican II” :rolleyes:

It’s also interesting to see what organizations will be there:
The initial core group (VOTF national members, enhanced very early with representatives of CTA, ARCC, Corpus, WOC and Future Church)
Obviously they are hoping to take over the Church in America and eliminate the ties to Rome. I’d suggest swamping the party with orthodox Catholics, but honestly they are trying there best to keep us out anyways, and I’d rather not give them any more mainstream media attention then they will get either way.
 
This is an attempt to ACORN-ize the Catholic Church in America. Organize and then patiently work on the erosion of the basic principles of the faith. Permeate the culture with a new word view. Put up barriers to participation by traditionalists. You can expect relentless efforts to grab hold of the education of the young, if the analogy with what we’re experiencing in the political world holds.
 
I don’t like this at all 😦

what bothers me is that since they call themselves “Catholic”, it might confuse many people and they’ll think this is the direction the real Church is going in.

I hope the Vatican will discourage this movement, so people would know i’ts not truly Catholic… the Church is not a democracy… :rolleyes: we’re lead by the Pope and the Magisterium… and that’s how it’s always been.

It’s really scary to me to see liberalism in the Church, I hope it won’t start going in the same direction as the Anglican church… we need to pray
 
I really believe that this is all the product of poor catechesis, you know. 😦
It may be for some - even for many. But as for the remainder - they know precisely what they are doing and they will have no excuse when reckoning comes.
 
This group is just another example of how some Americans do not like being told what to do by Rome.

In our arrogance, we Americans sometimes think we know better than anyone else, but the fact of the matter is that we don’t.

Moreover this is not now, and never has been a Catholic country, and we Catholics ought to remember that. While thankfully this nation’s founding documents were laid out following Judeo-Christian values, the USA has always been Protestant, plain and simple.

As Roman Catholics then, we ought to put first things first; to remind ourselves that we are Catholic Americans - not American Catholics.
 
=rstegeman-Simple…we stay the course. The Catholic Church is to remain the same…we are a pillar in a sea of change. There have been many calls like this one in the past and there will undoubtedly be many more in the future.
On their home page, there were three key things that stuck out in my mind. The first, “to create a new Church”. Christ started our Church. By saying that they are going to start a new one automatically states that they are not Christ’s church.
The second, “the American context in which we live”. This is an identity created by humans. Our Church supercedes any human culture, race, identity, tradition, etc. A church should not adjust itself according to the times and culture.
Third, “It is not that the Gospel has changed, it is that we have begun to understand it better”. Better?? Than who? The Magesterium? So this group, some two thousand years later, now has the clarity to interpret Scripture better than The Church, who through sacred tradition and the Magesterium, have the understanding that comes straight from the source? Their statement is both preposterous and arrogant.
The only thing we can do is to try to educate them and to clarify their misunderstandings of God’s Church.
***Friend, I sadly announce that this is very old news. Goes back at least to 1970. What we see in Americas catholic Church today, is a precise reflection of your fears.

Catholics have NOT stayed the course, because they thought they were being Obedient to Rome, when in fact they were following ideas by a number od Bishops and others for a New “American Catholic Church.”

This understanding is founded and verifiable on the following facts:

Vatican II DID NOT demand removal of Communion rails, nor Tabernacles, nor walk around altars, nor altar girls, nor Communion in the hand, nor Communion under both species [if fact these last two were specifically discussed and voted DOWN], nor very ordinary Minsiters of the Eucharist. nor lay Lectors.*** All of these were FORCED as :mandates of Vatican II. None of them are.

And the “fruits” of these labors?

From the 2007 PEW Report

***2007 Sunday and HD mass attendance was nearly 75% today [2008] its about 23%
2007 Confession at least Once per year {Eater Duty] was about 65% and today about 10%

The second largest group of Christians is “fallen away Catholics!”

One frequently finds on this Forum discussion of “Communion in the hand” and the most adamant “RIGHT” to do so. With litle understanding of the Divine Nature, the Awe and Wonder of God.

Is it too late? No, but God is in charge, and as in days of Old, there will be a price for such insolelnce, such pernicious behavior.***

***What can we do? With charity and consistancy, live our Faith and practice it in accord to Roman Norms. Sacrifice and pray. Teach thee truth as opportunity allows. For opportunities too are from God.

Love and prayers,***
 
***Friend, I sadly announce that this is very old news. Goes back at least to 1970. What we see in Americas catholic Church today, is a precise reflection of your fears.

Catholics have NOT stayed the course, because they thought they were being Obedient to Rome, when in fact they were following ideas by a number od Bishops and others for a New “American Catholic Church.”

This understanding is founded and verifiable on the following facts:

Vatican II DID NOT demand removal of Communion rails, nor Tabernacles, nor walk around altars, nor altar girls, nor Communion in the hand, nor Communion under both species [if fact these last two were specifically discussed and voted DOWN], nor very ordinary Minsiters of the Eucharist. nor lay Lectors.*** All of these were FORCED as :mandates of Vatican II. None of them are.

And the “fruits” of these labors?

From the 2007 PEW Report

***2007 Sunday and HD mass attendance was nearly 75% today [2008] its about 23%
2007 Confession at least Once per year {Eater Duty] was about 65% and today about 10%

The second largest group of Christians is “fallen away Catholics!”

One frequently finds on this Forum discussion of “Communion in the hand” and the most adamant “RIGHT” to do so. With litle understanding of the Divine Nature, the Awe and Wonder of God.

Is it too late? No, but God is in charge, and as in days of Old, there will be a price for such insolelnce, such pernicious behavior.***

***What can we do? With charity and consistancy, live our Faith and practice it in accord to Roman Norms. Sacrifice and pray. Teach thee truth as opportunity allows. For opportunities too are from God.

Love and prayers,***
so True!!!
 
Just posted on the history of this move toward schism. It actually would be a relief, the schism actually exists, no one wants to declare it.
whatever happened to excommunication action?

these groups are bringing confusion into the Church and are allowed to still be in the Church? they are just deceiving and misleading many good Catholics who dont know what to believe. where are the shepards, the protector of the people of God? i just wonder what are they doing about this.
 
=wisdomseeker whatever happened to excommunication action?
these groups are bringing confusion into the Church and are allowed to still be in the Church? they are just deceiving and misleading many good Catholics who dont know what to believe. where are the shepards, the protector of the people of God? i just wonder what are they doing about this.
***Friend,

Not knowing you I hesitate sharing this information. But a large number of our shepards are wearing sheeps clothing. They are at the root of the problems at hand.

Love and prayers,***
 
Some of these groups are excommunicated, others only in certain dioceses. The Church as a whole has an understandable fear of Schism (Catholic/Orthodox), however, this move should force the bishops hand, but they will not do anything until it is closer.
 
Thank God for giving us Pope Benedict XVI. I can really sense the hand of God protecting His church. I don’t fear them, because God is in control, and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against His church, no matter what impostor bride tries to get her way.
 
***Friend,

Not knowing you I hesitate sharing this information. But a large number of our shepards are wearing sheeps clothing. They are at the root of the problems at hand.

Love and prayers,***
dont need to hesitate. i am with you.

in my area i see only liberal Churches. i hate to talk about the priests and bishops but i can see what is going on. they all walk around like they are so cool. i am not kidding you. in my parish, women are taking over. the women is the one to handle the host afterwords while the priest is sitting down. on another parish, i saw the priest going to the side of the Sanctuary to give Eucharist, while the woman stood in the center in front of the Altar giving the Eucharist. very odd to me.

today they have this charismatic Catholic Church that is nothing like the CC herself. people in this movement are very liberal they sing all these protestants songs and act just like protestant do. please dont take offense on this. but that is what i observed on those whom i know in this movement. they dont want anything to do with Traditional Latin music. it is all about modernism.

i have prayed that God will build a Holy Church in this part of town, then maybe others will follow.

it is a shame that they let themselves to be sucked in by this horrible culture of today. they lost the fear of God. i confess never have seen a priest wearing toxedo, today i hardly see a priest wearing his priestly garments. very sad for our priests. may God bring them back to the place they ought to be. i feel compassion for them. there is to much temptation all around them.

Mercy, Oh Lord.
 
View the story here

I don’t think taking this lightly is a good idea. What is the Church going to do about this? What are WE going to do about this?

I think this is terrifying - think of the timing of this event. Right before a major election season when every liberal politician in the country is going to be loving this up and jumping on the band wagon. We already know what that sort of response did to the presidential election. Make no mistake, if the liberal media and politicians get behind this event and this organization, they could be unstoppable.

americancatholiccouncil.org/

This looks very much to me like a call for schism in the Church.

~Liza
in my opinion, the sooner they leave the better. At least, people will definitely know what side they’re on.
 
Thank God for giving us Pope Benedict XVI. I can really sense the hand of God protecting His church. I don’t fear them, because God is in control, and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against His church, no matter what impostor bride tries to get her way.
yes, He is.

this is nothing new to the Church. if we look at the history of the Church, we can see how many groups like that left the Church to build a new church. in the end, some repented and came back. our Lord says: “my sheep knows my voice and they follow me.”

let s just thank God He protected us and made us aware of these things, so we know and dont follow them.
 
=wisdomseeker;5687656]dont need to hesitate. i am with you.
in my area i see only liberal Churches. i hate to talk about the priests and bishops but i can see what is going on. they all walk around like they are so cool. i am not kidding you. in my parish, women are taking over. the women is the one to handle the host afterwords while the priest is sitting down. on another parish, i saw the priest going to the side of the Sanctuary to give Eucharist, while the woman stood in the center in front of the Altar giving the Eucharist. very odd to me.
today they have this charismatic Catholic Church that is nothing like the CC herself. people in this movement are very liberal they sing all these protestants songs and act just like protestant do. please dont take offense on this. but that is what i observed on those whom i know in this movement. they dont want anything to do with Traditional Latin music. it is all about modernism.
i have prayed that God will build a Holy Church in this part of town, then maybe others will follow.
it is a shame that they let themselves to be sucked in by this horrible culture of today. they lost the fear of God. i confess never have seen a priest wearing toxedo, today i hardly see a priest wearing his priestly garments. very sad for our priests. may God bring them back to the place they ought to be. i feel compassion for them. there is to much temptation all around them.
Mercy, Oh Lord.
***Yes friend, we do see and agree. God promised “the gates of hell shall not previal against Her.” but, Christ was not speaking of the the CC in America. We are well done the road of distruction, so let us pray that we too will not be sucked into the vacume!

Love and prayers, Pat

If its an option you may wish to find another parish? I certainly would be supporting the RCC, and not this parish. ***
 
Honestly? From one of those evil liberal Catholics?

When you (not you, personally, Liza, but “you” in general and I’ve seen this on these forums) go around talking about how “those liberal Catholics do the church a disservice,” or “those liberal Catholics should just leave” (well hey, here looks like an opportunity!) or “those liberal Catholics are ignorant/dumb/etc.” or ask them “how can they call themselves Catholic?” yet turn around and say, “Once Catholic always Catholic.” That shuts a lot of people out.

You talk about how Catholics have a responsibility to prevent these “snatching of souls.” Part of that responsibility is INCLUDING them rather than trying to shove them out.

I didn’t see any Catholic do that for me, personally. (Maybe that’s a problem.) I know I get turned off by the “real” Catholics here, or those who continue to have a self righteous attitude and how they’re “real” Catholics. I was apalled at one thread on here where some people felt that “those liberal Catholics” “should just leave.” :eek: One of the things that I really disliked about Catholics (and I admit I can get this attitude on occasion but I’m working on it) is this arrogance that Catholics have, even within our own ranks. And then there’s cut down and put down when people find out how “those liberal Catholics” (and that’s usually used as PUT DOWN and if it were said would probably be said snearingly) then they’re told they’re not “real” Catholics.

The only thing that brought me back was the Holy Eucharist. That was the only thing. Not the conservative voting block of the Catholic person. Not one of “those liberal Catholics” either. The Holy Eucharist. Sure, we can help each other, teach, educate, help someone come back to the Church. And it certainly won’t be any of them that kick me out. Even though I am one of “those liberal Catholics” who “do the Church a disservice.”

At some point, while we, as Catholics, are responsible for our own spiritual growth (and as you well know, Americans - regardless of faith - are sorely lacking in personal responsiblity) there is also the responsibility of the Church to educate as well. Right now, the only thing lacking is in the homilies - maybe. I haven’t been back long enough to be able to tell.

Even when I wasn’t practicing Catholicism and I was “out there,” I had always believed that the Catholic Church was the One True Church. Which is why I never joined any other Protestant faith. I remember seeing a bumper sticker, I don’t remember the exact wording, it said something like I love you Jesus, it’s your followers I can’t stand. And I think that hit the nail on the head for me.

The “real” Catholics profess to be sinners and trying to humble themselves before God and Christ yet, when you listen to their language, hear what they say, they’re being quite judgemental of other Catholics who don’t think exactly like them. While I can understand that it is a love for Christ and a desire to be obedient to the Church, well… you just can’t, and won’t, make people “go your way” when you keep alienating like that.

I’ll give you an example. Earlier someone posted that this “reminds them” of those Catholics who “only” go at Easter and Christmas and they are “lukewarm” in their faith if they “had any at all.” If they didn’t, uhm, they wouldn’t go, period. I think I remember learning that we only have to go to confession at least once a year. Well, do you really think that someone who only participates those times of year is going to want to listen to someone making judgements about them like that? No. Quite frankly, just because someone goes to Mass every Sunday, confesses every 4 to 6 weeks, does this or that, doesn’t make them any better of a Catholic that the one who attends Mass once or twice a year. It just means they’re are doing more in their faith than the other.

I know this isn’t all Catholics, but the many of the Catholics with an attitude like this do turn off other Catholics. Which most likely keeps them quiet.

Another thing I am afraid of is that many are simply easily led away and are very trusting. Also, people are, quite simply, willful.

You know, as I write this I’m thinking “Why DON’T Catholics do MORE on their own of what it takes to learn about the faith?” I don’t know. I really don’t know the answer to that. I think that so many Catholics, because we grow up knowing that the Catholic church is THE church and that they’re already Catholic simply take it for granted. It’s unfortunate to be sure. It’s spiritual laziness.

But in all honesty, I think what’s going to happen is people will get turned off by something, whatever that something is, and then act willfully. Until they Get It about the Holy Eucharist, which I know is the draw for a good number of those who come back and converts as well, they’ll go just about anywhere else where they feel included rather than marginalized. That’s where we can start being responsible in keeping the flock in.

Just my :twocents: that I was able to scrape together due to the stimulus package. 😉
 
I too quit practicing my faith for about 30yrs and was lso The Eucharist that brought me back. I never attended any other “church” during that time either, but since I’ve come back ,I’ve been treated at best a a museum piece and at worst as a pariah for my love of the Tridentine Mass, by our more LIBERAL members. So don’t get on your high horse and grouse about the attitudes of more conservative Catholics. Idiocy rests on BOTH sides!!! I try not get in their way of worship, as fifth rate as it seems to be around here, I just ask that I be left to adore the Lord in the way that was basically fine for 1,967 years. Yes I know changes were made over the ages, but until THE SPIRIT OF VII took over(not the actual teachings of the Council) they seemed to be more for the edification of the souls of the congregations rather than keeping them entertained. The mega-churches are just the logical end to that type of journey!!!
 
There is a downgrade everywhere in Western Christendom (if that term means anything substantial anymore). The rot is in all of the “churches”, i.e. the Catholic Church, the magisterial Protestant denominations (Prebyterian/Reformed, Lutheran, Anglican), the sects which have a bare claim to being Christian at all (Baptists, Pentecostalists, Methodists, et al.). Only the Eastern Churches seem to have avoided this.

The worst of it is the sheer fatigue that all this causes for the faithful in the Church. We have to put up with so much compromise, gross sin (e.g. priestly sex abuse), and endless carping about everything (doctrine, liturgy, social outreach), etc. Church life is at such an ebb that I wonder why I bother to take even a minimal part in it. Sometimes I wonder if it is worth facing it all. It is possible simply to turn one’s back on religion altogether, in democracies like Canada and the U. S. of A. Somehow, though, I hope that it does not come to this for me, but I am old now and tired of seeing things ever slide further downward than one would have thought possible when I was young, before Vat.-II and all the rest of it set in.

Jerry Parker
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top