This is why you have to keep explaining yourself

  • Thread starter Thread starter NonDenom
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Christant cats pray to Jesus–Romans 8: 19-22

Pagan cats pray to Bast.
 
NonDenom said:
Originally posted by Church Militant;Yeah… It’s called Iconoclasm

It is clear that the prohibition is not iconoclastic as some preach, but based upon the intent of the one making and using the image. Since NO CATHOLIC EVER kneels down before any image to worship it we are not idolaters at all. We are not stupid enough to confuse a mass of rock, plaster, metal, or any other created thing with the almighty and ever living God of the Universe.

remnantofgod.org/pix/dagon_jpg_view.htm

Hi All
This is exactly why you guys have to answer questions on idol worship. I could see if these people were bowing before a statue of Christ, but they are bowing before a man. Pictures like this are the reason I like many others are not convinced.
Click to expand...
Hi All
Sorry, I should have worded it a little different, I’m married to a former Catholic and almost all of Her family are Catholic and they are wonderful people. The title of my thread was simply meant to show WHY you have to keep explaining yourself. The picture of people praying in front of the Minister is not something you would see at the church where I go.The pic of the Minister is also NOT in idol nor a statue, the other pic shows people bowing before a STATUE of the pope. People are more likely to believe what they see than what someone says and that is why IMO Catholics have to keep explaining themselves on this issue.
 
NonDenom said:
Hi All
Sorry, I should have worded it a little different, I’m married to a former Catholic and almost all of Her family are Catholic and they are wonderful people. The title of my thread was simply meant to show WHY you have to keep explaining yourself. The picture of people praying in front of the Minister is not something you would see at the church where I go.The pic of the Minister is also NOT in idol nor a statue, the other pic shows people bowing before a STATUE of the pope. People are more likely to believe what they see than what someone says and that is why IMO Catholics have to keep explaining themselves on this issue.
Click to expand...
How is it any different, Non-Denom? Do you know what is in a man’s heart when they pray before an icon? It is pretty apparent to me that Non-Catholic Christians like yourself think they know.

“Hey, that Catholic dude is bowing and worshipping the statue. Idol worshipper?” When in fact this Catholic is mediating on the life of the saint who live the Christian faith. He might even recite one of the 150 Psalms in the Bible before the image, or doing a liturgy of the hour.

You can’t judge by mere appearance. Can you truly read the hearts of men? The last time I check only God can read the hearts of men. Not us. I would be careful when you come down and accused us Catholic of idol worship. We do not.

Idolotry in the Catholic terms is placing someone else over God. When I ask saints to pray for me. There is always God mention.

Here is one prayer:
Hail Mary, poor and humble Woman, Blessed by the Most High! Virgin of hope, dawn of a new era, We join in your song of praise, to celebrate the Lord’s mercy, to proclaim the coming of the Kingdom and the full liberation of humanity.
Click to expand...
Hail Mary, lowly handmaid of the Lord, Glorious Mother of Christ! Faithful Virgin, holy dwelling-place of the Word, Teach us to persevere in listening to the Word, and to be docile to the voice of the Spirit, attentive to his promptings in the depths of our conscience and to his manifestations in the events of history.
Click to expand...
Hail Mary, Woman of sorrows, Mother of the living! Virgin spouse beneath the Cross, the new Eve, Be our guide along the paths of the world. Teach us to experience and to spread the love of Christ, to stand with you before the innumerable crosses on which your Son is still crucified.
Click to expand...
Hail Mary, woman of faith, First of the disciples! Virgin Mother of the Church, help us always to account for the hope that is in us, with trust in human goodness and the Father’s love. Teach us to build up the world beginning from within: in the depths of silence and prayer, in the joy of fraternal love, in the unique fruitfulness of the Cross.
Click to expand...
Holy Mary, Mother of believers, Our Lady of Lourdes, pray for us.
Click to expand...
God is never omitted. To truly understand why Catholics pray to Mary and the saints is to understand the Communion of Saints.

Our membership to the Church here does not end at death. It continues. If a man dies in Christ and goes to heaven, he is still a member of the Body of Christ. The term we use is Saints triumphant (those saints who were martyred for the faith, and died for the Blood of the Lamb).

The communion of saints is the key to understand the intecessory prayer of the saints. Icons, paintings, are use for reflection, and mediation. They are not the object of divine worship in the Catholic Church.

I have this last question to ask you and anyone else who has issues with this.

By what authority do you have to call Catholics idol worshippers, as if you know our hearts?
 
NonDenom said:
Hi All
Sorry, I should have worded it a little different, I’m married to a former Catholic and almost all of Her family are Catholic and they are wonderful people. The title of my thread was simply meant to show WHY you have to keep explaining yourself. The picture of people praying in front of the Minister is not something you would see at the church where I go.The pic of the Minister is also NOT in idol nor a statue, the other pic shows people bowing before a STATUE of the pope. People are more likely to believe what they see than what someone says and that is why IMO Catholics have to keep explaining themselves on this issue.
Click to expand...
Well, I think you are missing our point. Catholics have nothing to explain. It is those who continue to assume what they do not know who have or will one day have to explain. We state the truth of our actions but those who only wise to spread lies refuse to hear and/or learn. I just say it is a good thing that only God knows what is in another’s heart and not those who only wish to make Catholics out to be something they are not.
 
Dirk_Skene said:
Good example Pixie Dust :heaven: It never ceases to amaze me the number of Non-Catholics that come here to stir it up :whacky: I guess that’s why my ignore list grows each week 😉 :blessyou:
Click to expand...
Pretty soon I may be the only protestant you ever talk to here:D 😉
 
Mannyfit75 said:
I have this last question to ask you and anyone else who has issues with this.

By what **authority **do you have to call Catholics idol worshippers, as if you know our hearts?
Click to expand...
st_lucy said:
Well, I think you are missing our point. Catholics have nothing to explain. It is those who continue to assume what they do not know who have or will one day have to explain. We state the truth of our actions but those who only wise to spread lies refuse to hear and/or learn. I just say it is a good thing that only God knows what is in another’s heart and not those who only wish to make Catholics out to be something they are not.
Click to expand...
[SIGN]AMEN!!![/SIGN]

Man, I’ve really had to hammer on the issue of authority in my apologetics work lately. These things seem to follow me around 😉
 
NonDenom said:
Hi All
Sorry, I should have worded it a little different, I’m married to a former Catholic and almost all of Her family are Catholic and they are wonderful people.
Click to expand...
Yes, the vast majority of us are wonderful people.
The title of my thread was simply meant to show WHY you have to keep explaining yourself.
Click to expand...
Well when people take pictures and gestures Out Of Context, what do you expect.
The picture of people praying in front of the Minister is not something you would see at the church where I go.
Click to expand...
What’s worse kneeling and praying to a Minister or kneeling and praying to a Statute (Context? eh? 😃 )
The pic of the Minister is also NOT in idol nor a statue, the other pic shows people bowing before a STATUE of the pope.

People are more likely to believe what they see than what someone says and that is why IMO Catholics have to keep explaining themselves on this issue.
Click to expand...
No people are more likely to believe what they are told and when presented with certain pictures are then drawn into a context that does not exist in reality. And if one grows up hearing and learning that Catholics worship statues then any picture shown to them helps them to develop a context that is not right. But Satan loves that false context he can foster in people. And that false context gives them justification to judge even though there is enough scripture to condemn judging…
 
NonDenom said:
Hi All
Sorry, I should have worded it a little different, I’m married to a former Catholic and almost all of Her family are Catholic and they are wonderful people. The title of my thread was simply meant to show WHY you have to keep explaining yourself. The picture of people praying in front of the Minister is not something you would see at the church where I go.The pic of the Minister is also NOT in idol nor a statue, the other pic shows people bowing before a STATUE of the pope. People are more likely to believe what they see than what someone says and that is why IMO Catholics have to keep explaining themselves on this issue.
Click to expand...
We’re happy to explain ad nauseum as long as there are people with sincere inquiries, not just ignorant accusations. 🙂

Regarding the photo, it merely depicts private veneration of the late Holy Father John Paul II, a Servant of God; this title is given to one whose cause for Sainthood has been introduced. The faithful are free to ask for his intercession (the fruits of which will be studied by the postulators of his cause), but may not do so in a formal liturgical way until he has been beatified (declared “Blessed”).

ewtn.com/johnpaul2/cause/process.asp
With the beatification rite, conducted on the authority of the Supreme Pontiff, the Venerable Servant of God is declared Blessed, e.g. Blessed Teresa of Calcutta. This title enables the person to receive liturgical veneration (Mass, Divine Office, images in churches etc.) at the local level, usually restricted to those dioceses or religious institutes closely associated with the person’s life. Other dioceses and institutes may petition the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments for the Indult to render cultus (veneration) to the Blessed. Without such Indult public veneration is illicit. The reason for this is that beatification is not considered an infallible papal act, and so it is not yet appropriate that the entire Church give liturgical veneration to the Blessed. Private devotion is, of course, permitted.
Click to expand...
 
It is all perception. That is to say if we believe that bible only Christians worship the bible. Then if we see a picture of someone bowing in prayer in front of the bible…then what we see is… It is all about the filters we use to view life. Until we can change those filters all the explaining in the world will do no good. So why do we need to change how we may pray sometimes when the misconception is due to a faulty filter?
 
Stephen_C said:
It is all perception. That is to say if we believe that bible only Christians worship the bible. Then if we see a picture of someone bowing in prayer in front of the bible…then what we see is… It is all about the filters we use to view life. Until we can change those filters all the explaining in the world will do no good. So why do we need to change how we may pray sometimes when the misconception is due to a faulty filter?
Click to expand...
Exactly, Stephen. But, at the same time, I don’t know a single Catholic who’d seriously ask an evangelical why he was worshipping his Bible. It isn’t a question that would make any sense. But, of course, we have to fend off these accusations all the time.
 
NonDenom said:
The picture of people praying in front of the Minister is not something you would see at the church where I go.
Click to expand...
That’s a common cop out, NonDenom, and a weak one at that. Using the same criteria by which you judged those people in the picture you provided, would you or would you not say these people appear to be worshipping their Protestant minister?
The pic of the Minister is also NOT in idol nor a statue, the other pic shows people bowing before a STATUE of the pope.
Click to expand...
After saying this doesn’t happen at your church, now you are trying to rationalize it. Make up your mind.

And what about the other pictures – the people praying in front of Bibles, headstones, and stuffed monkeys (🙂 )? What are we to deduce from these? :rolleyes:
People are more likely to believe what they see than what someone says and that is why IMO Catholics have to keep explaining themselves on this issue.
Click to expand...
More accurately, scores of Protestants have been indoctrinated into believing that Catholics worship idols and, when they see these pictures, that must be what they’re doing. Nobody arrives at these misconceptions themselves just by reading the Bible-- it must be taught.

Be honest about these influences and predjudices that create these misconceptions, NonDenom. We’ll respect you the more for it.🙂
 
Fidelis said:
More accurately, scores of Protestants have been indoctrinated into believing that Catholics worship idols and, when they see these pictures, that must be what they’re doing. Nobody arrives at these misconceptions themselves just by reading the Bible-- it must be taught.

Be honest about these influences and predjudices that create these misconceptions, NonDenom. We’ll respect you the more for it.🙂
Click to expand...
Amen!
 
I do not bother explaining myself. I question Protestants as to why they abandoned the faith of the apostles. I ask why they dumped the “old time religion” and why they do not believe in the Bible as they say they do.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top