This priest says: "RCIA, how it is currently practiced, is pathetic and shameful."

[JReducation]

That is the reason why people should financially support EWTN and your local Catholic radio station.

You can divide up the money you would normally donate to your local church, especially if it is a liberal church.
You can substitute your time and volunteer in your local church, to make up for the money that you are diverting away from your local church.
You can use the time and volunteering to witness for Jesus The Christ and gently correct any heresey you see and present the true teachings of The Catholic Church.

You can divide the money any way you wish between: your local church, EWTN, your local Catholic radio station, and your favorite Catholic radio show (some radio shows need money).

Also I think the Catholic Church believes in physical support as well as spiritual support.
The physical support is with donating time, money, etc., to Catholic charities that help the poor,
and the spiritual support is with donating time, money, etc., to Catholic teaching and evangelism ministries like EWTN.

If you do already support many Catholic ministries, I did not mean to say that you did not.

If any of the above is wrong or against the teachings of The Catholic Church, I apologize.

We have to be careful here. The Catholic Church does not allow Catholics to take away from their tithe to the local parish to give to other organizations, especially those that are not part of the Church.

EWTN is Catholic, but it is not an organization of the Catholic Church. It is a private non-profit corporation and so are most Catholic radio stations and newspapers.

It is a very good thing to donate to them, because they serve a purpose in the community and in the Church. But we cannot rob Peter to give to Paul. The Franciscans who run EWTN would be the first to tell you this. As a Franciscan myself, I can tell you, that our holy Father Francis, would not have encouraged this idea at all. That is why he commanded in his rule that the brothers and sisters not accept money from the Church or their families. To this day, that continues to be the policy.

Therefore, if you gave to EWTN a part of what you would give to the parish, you would be in conflict with what St. Francis wanted for his brothers and sisters, who run EWTN. The Franciscan family would appreciate your generosity, but not at the expense of the parish. The parish is every Catholic’s first obligation, because it is the Church. EWTN is not the Church. It is a private ministry. In fact, hundreds of parishes, maybe more, cooperated to get EWTN started.

Remember how Mo. Angelica always said, “Put us between your gas and electric bill.” She never said, “Take a little something from your parish and give it to us.” If you can afford both, that would be great.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Bold is mine.

What if that’s his ministry?

I understand about the TV and I agree. But what we have to make sure that all of us understand is that not every priest who is assigned to a parish works for the parish.

In our parish we have 7 friars. Three are priests. Only one of them is assigned to work in the parish. The Superior of the house is a Brother, the pastor is a priest, and the two pastoral associates are Brothers (both have degrees and experience in ministry). The other priest is a high school principal and the third priest is a hospital chaplain. The Superior runs everyone’s life and teaches theology at the local diocesan seminary and runs the RCIA.

The Superior does the assigning according to education, experience and the needs of the religious order.

In a diocesan parish, there is no superior, because the priest is a secular man. However, then we have the case, that they are seculars. They do not have the same rules that religious priests have. Many get paid very little and work at two jobs. People may think that they are not present because they are lazy when such is not the case. I know a diocesan priest who runs a parish during the day and teaches at the university at night, because he can’t retire if he does not do this. His salary is so low that his Social Security benefits are going to be insufficient to keep him alive. Diocese do not financially support retired priests. That’s up to them to figure out how to live.

Religious priests are taken care of by their brothers, but not diocesan priests. So every diocesan priest who is not around may be out working and making ends meet. Let’s be careful not to over generalize.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

No, I wasn’t referring to a ministry but surfing the internet as an excape. I know how much time I can kill “just checking in” and it’s not unlike TV in that regard.

 

[JReducation]

No, I wasn’t referring to a ministry but surfing the internet as an excape. I know how much time I can kill “just checking in” and it’s not unlike TV in that regard.

OK, but go easy here. What you’re describing is a form of relaxation. That is not a bad thing. You, myself and everyone else needs to relax. Remember today’s Gospel when Jesus notices how tired the disciples looked and invited them to rest.

Granted, they go to the other side and there was a crowd. But he did invite them to relax. That’s my point. Sometimes we forget that diocesan priests are secular men. They are not like monks who are on duty 24/7. They are seculars, like you are. They are on duty and off duty. They get to go home and relax like everyone else.

And priests who belong to religious order are even more strict about being around 24/7. Religious superiors are cracking the whip on many religious who are priests, because they spend too much time at the parish and not enough time in the religous house with their brothers. These guys are absent from community: meals, prayers, recreaton, meetings, periods of silence, etc. They did not enter religious life to become parish priests. You can be a secular man and be a parish priest. You enter religious life to live a consecrated life in community. Those guys are not always going to be around either.

I’ve given you three scenarios:

1. People do need to take time to relax.
2. Diosecan priests are secular men and they are allowed to clock out.
3. Priests who are religious are expected to clock out, to have some kind of community life.

Then there are the slugs sprinkled in between. But let’s not grade everyone with the same curve. The things that posters say on CAF is from their perspective. We don’t know the priests to whom they refer. Maybe the poster doesn’t know that there is another side. The poster may be expressing his or her frustration, based on his or her expectations and perception. That does not mean that those exepctations or perceptions are right. It just means that they are real.

We must respect each poster, but not generalize about every parish priest.

Thanks.

Fraternally,

Br, JR, OSF

 

[Lepanto]

That is the reason why people should financially support EWTN and your local Catholic radio station.

I went through RCIA not as a convert or as a revert, but as a cradle Catholic seeking personal enrichment. I wanted to learn the faith better and become closer to the Lord. My RCIA experience failed miserably on both counts. If I really had believed what was taught, I would have left the faith.

Even though I stuck with the class the entire year and “graduated,” I had to un-learn much of the nonsense that was presented. And for this, I can thank EWTN, Catholic Answers, and my own reading.

I would hate to think that even one penny of my contributions to that parish went to its RCIA program.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I would hate to think that even one penny of my contributions to that parish went to its RCIA program.

And yet RCIA is the normal way that people become Catholic. A parish with no RCIA program is a parish that is not bringing adults into the faith.

Criticizing your parish’s RCIA on the Internet is easy. How many people who are critics here have volunteered to help with RCIA? Or children’s religious education? Or some other element of faith formation? Good people are always needed!

 

[MyCatholicHeart]

Reading about all the bad experiences people have had in RCIA scares me! I want everything I’m learning to be in line with church teaching, but how can I be sure? How could I possibly have time to double check everything I hear?
I have read a lot of books and plan to continue to do so for my own information but, wow, I really thought I wouldn’t have to worry about what I was being taught in RCIA! I figured there was some sort of process to become an instructor.
I know so little about the Catholic faith right now it seems like it would be easy to learn misinformation. I guess it’s a sort of “buyer beware.” I’m planning on attending the RCIA at my friends’ parish and they’ve told me it’s a good program, but none of them have actually been through it…I’m just praying they’re right!

 

[Lepanto]

And yet RCIA is the normal way that people become Catholic.

Yes, that’s the way it’s supposed to work. But an RCIA program that teaches material heresy is an RCIA program that the Church does not need. My experience of RCIA was one that drove people away or made them nominal Catholics if they stuck it out.

A parish with no RCIA program is a parish that is not bringing adults into the faith.

I disagree. Did nobody ever come into the faith before RCIA was developed in the 1970s? Whatever happened to good old evangelization and private instruction?

Criticizing your parish’s RCIA on the Internet is easy.

True enough, but there’s more to my story…

How many people who are critics here have volunteered to help with RCIA? Or children’s religious education? Or some other element of faith formation? Good people are always needed!

…part of the reason that I attended that year of RCIA was that I was planning on becoming an assistant catechist for the following year. Unfortunately, the head catechist was not interested in my services once it became clear that I did not agree with her twisted vision on what the Church teaches and stands for. (She detests Catholic Answers, by the way!)

 

[adowcday]

The original post linked to blog by a priest who seems unable to get along with pastors in Catholic churches where he has served: “By the time I had finished my first three and a half years as a priest, I had been moved to my ninth parish.”

He doesn’t like the pastors he had served under, so it’s no big surprise he’s not fond of the religous and lay teachers who teach in various RCIA programs – he states plainly that only priests are qualified to teach RCIA, but they’re too busy playing golf or watching TV to be bothered. He also hates small-group discussions, favoring lectures and exams.

Here’s his characterization of a typical RCIA program:

“From what I have seen, RCIA goes like this. A group of very well meaning adults (a teen or two sometimes as well), each of whom has approached the Church asking for the saving waters of baptism, are gathered in a room by someone who has none or little theological or philosophical formation. …Then a discussion ensues, guided by the RCIA leader, which mostly dances around issues, provides no substance, offers politically correct heresies which will not offend the sensibilities of those who hate Catholicism, and all of this ends up with some sort of sentimental open discussion, perhaps with some crying to season the experience…The result: they learn nothing. Let me repeat that: NOTHING.”

I’m a convert myself, having had to endure several months of one-on-one instruction by a priest who was orthodox in theology but incompetent as a teacher. I’m not sure why he bothered with our little “chats” – he didn’t ask any questions, which would have cut into his lecture.

I have served on RCIA teams for several years and found them to be very serious, informative, and orthodox. They place the focus where the U.S. bishops have said that all of the Church’s catechetical focus should be placed: on helping people come into a relationship with Jesus Christ and growing in that relationship (as outlined in the National Catechetical Directory). They also focus on the central aspects of Catholic faith. You can’t teach everything, but you can teach everything important. We blended lectures and small-group process. Adults don’t learn well if they don’t participate by asking questions and discussing what they’re learning. Lecture-only methods are simply bad pedagogy.

There are some programs led by hyper-liberal people with an axe to grind, but they are in the minority, I think. Most work the way they are supposed to. Some of our most zealous and involved parishioners come out of RCIA programs.

I’m afraid that some poor praish is going to be pastored by our good friend the well-travelled priest some day. May God have mercy…

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I disagree. Did nobody ever come into the faith before RCIA was developed in the 1970s? Whatever happened to good old evangelization and private instruction?

That’s not what the Church has envisioned as the best way for catechumens to prepare for baptism.

One problem with RCIA is that it has become a catch-all for catechumens, those brought up in other faith communities, those returning to the Church, those Catholics who missed being confirmed, Catholics who are unsure about what the Church teaches, and those looking for some kind of faith enhancement.

It serves pretty well for bringing Protestants into the Catholic Church, but does less well the further you stretch it. It’s not intended to be an adult education program for Catholics even though that’s how some people try to use it.

…part of the reason that I attended that year of RCIA was that I was planning on becoming an assistant catechist for the following year. Unfortunately, the head catechist was not interested in my services once it became clear that I did not agree with her twisted vision on what the Church teaches and stands for. (She detests Catholic Answers, by the way!)

Hmmmm…sounds like you two would not have made a good team. But then it sounds like RCIA is not exactly where your interests are. Have you thought about starting a lecture series or something more academically oriented than RCIA is intended to be?

I have served on RCIA teams for several years and found them to be very serious, informative, and orthodox. They place the focus where the U.S. bishops have said that all of the Church’s catechetical focus should be placed: on helping people come into a relationship with Jesus Christ and growing in that relationship (as outlined in the National Catechetical Directory). They also focus on the central aspects of Catholic faith. You can’t teach everything, but you can teach everything important. We blended lectures and small-group process. Adults don’t learn well if they don’t participate by asking questions and discussing what they’re learning. Lecture-only methods are simply bad pedagogy.

Thank you for saying this!

Finding the right line to walk as far as teaching in RCIA has been tricky. On the one hand, I want people to have the basics of what it means to be Catholic. On the other hand, there’s no way I can teach them everything in a year or 18 months. And the bottom line is that they need a relationship with Jesus if they are going to continue to develop their faith after they receive the sacraments.

I’ve told my catechists that I consider it our sacred responsibility to teach as closely as we can with the mind and heart of the Church. But it has to be done in a way that reaches people where they are and brings them to a greater level of understanding.

 

[DominicVobiscum]

I would offer that we all look at things (in this case RCIA) through a prism of our own experiences and knowledge. I would like it if my particular diocese would develop a basic standard for RCIA instruction, and required all parishes to adhere to it.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Lepanto]

I’d like everyone’s recommendation for an RCIA “text” book that can be used to accompany the catechism and bible.

Something challenging, but not overly academic either. The book that we used (I don’t recall the name), was far too simplistic and vague.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

We us the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults.

 

[Love_the_Lorax]

I finished RCIA almost 2 years ago, and I have to say I can relate to what was presented in the initial post. During my time, I listened to the deacon’s wife (super nice woman) tell us that everyone is on their own journey, and if you are called to another church then that is great also. I listened one teacher (a variety of parishioners are on a team that teaches) spend the time discussing the role of women in church history and how they should definitely be deacons if not priests, and a priest agree with her. I heard NOTHING about the church’s stanch on any number of topics (gays, abortion, birth control, etc - it would have been nice to understand the church’s position on some topics). The role of Mary and the saints? Hmmm… I would have LOVED to have had a definite curriculum, and a textbook to study. We had nothing. Honestly, my study as a 7th grader in Lutheran catechism classes were far more substantial than my RCIA class. I learned WAY more from studying on my own, friends that I conversed with, etc. than RCIA.

 

[Don_L]

I agree with the author that the RCIA program in many parishes is very lacking. It needs to be reorganized and it needs a more solid curriculum with very clear benchmarks that state what the Church wants the convert to believe, before being admitted to the faith.

I disagree with him that everything is the fault of the priest. I also disagree with his description of how priests waste their time. Like every other situation in life, you have people who do a job well done and others who do a mediocre job. But even if you do a job well done, there is never a guarrantee that you will always have a result that is equal to the investment. A good teacher is a must in any school. However, not every student is going to be successful. People make choices and unfortuantely, they are not always the best choices. Additionally, there are some very well trained religious and lay theologians who are not priests. One of our brothers is a theologian and runs RCIA for a parish. He is not a priest. He’s excellent, because he’s clear, orthodox and very organized teacher. He does not miss a single point of what is important. We cannot assume that because a man is ordained he is a theologian or much less a talented educator. Deacons and priests get a general degree in theology and philosophy. They are not theologians. There is a difference. A theologian is an expert in a particular area of theology.

I can’t really answer your question about RCIA experience from a personal level. I am a convert from Judaism. But I never went through RCIA. It was non existent in my time. I was groomed by the Franciscan Brothers who taught me in school. Even though we were Jewish, because our mother was Jewish, my Catholic father insisted that we attend Catholic school under the guidance of the Capuchin Franciscan Friars, because he had been educated by them.

We did and I fell in love with Catholicism watching these good and holy men, of course my father too. During my high school years I noticed how much they loved their founder. I was impressed that everything they taught us, they always quoted something that St. Francis did or something he said or someone said about him.

I began to ask questions about St. Francis. The brothers began to explain to me how Francis lived the Gospel and about Francis’ relationship with Christ. One thing led to another. I began to ask questions about Christ and the Church. Two years after graduating from high school, I ran into the Franciscans again at the university and I asked them to be baptized. I was.

Today, several decades later, I am a Franciscan Brother. I would not trade my journey for anyone else’s.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

What a marvelous story!

 

[DavidW]

Obviously there are good programs. The one I went through is excellent. We had lecturers from the local seminary and others, a clear outline and progression. The teaching was pretty soft at first but increased in intensity after the Rite of Acceptance in November and then doubled down again after the Rite of Election a month before Easter.

Questions about things like celibacy came up but always from the catechists and the answers were correct if softly delivered. It didn’t get really to the point of flat statements like “that is a mortal sin objectively taken” (re: birth control) until the last month or so.

In our Rite of Election there were 18 parishes represented. That was one of 3 sites that had the Rite that day, so you get the idea of how many different programs there are in an Archdiocese the size of Galveston-Houston. Are all of them great like ours? Doubt it.

Ours is led by a lay woman by the way, with a divinity degree. A very devout Catholic that believes fully in the teachings of the church. I’m volunteering to help this year and am looking forward to the start in September.

In my case I was very devoted to a complete conversion for myself and did a lot of supplemental catechesis on my own through EWTN and reading the Catechism. There were others that came through at the same time that were in a completely different place. Ours had winnowed down to 40 or so by the Rite of Election. Some people clearly didn’t take it as seriously as I did, others were less demonstrative but their faith seems strong. One I saw at Mass this morning, she was someone I was very concerned about but she seems very strong to me now.

It concerns me that there is so much criticism of RCIA in these threads. I hope folks will give their local programs a chance before deciding not to go.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

OK, but go easy here. What you’re describing is a form of relaxation. That is not a bad thing. You, myself and everyone else needs to relax. Remember today’s Gospel when Jesus notices how tired the disciples looked and invited them to rest.

Granted, they go to the other side and there was a crowd. But he did invite them to relax. That’s my point. Sometimes we forget that diocesan priests are secular men. They are not like monks who are on duty 24/7. They are seculars, like you are. They are on duty and off duty. They get to go home and relax like everyone else.

And priests who belong to religious order are even more strict about being around 24/7. Religious superiors are cracking the whip on many religious who are priests, because they spend too much time at the parish and not enough time in the religous house with their brothers. These guys are absent from community: meals, prayers, recreaton, meetings, periods of silence, etc. They did not enter religious life to become parish priests. You can be a secular man and be a parish priest. You enter religious life to live a consecrated life in community. Those guys are not always going to be around either.

I’ve given you three scenarios:

1. People do need to take time to relax.
2. Diosecan priests are secular men and they are allowed to clock out.
3. Priests who are religious are expected to clock out, to have some kind of community life.

Then there are the slugs sprinkled in between. But let’s not grade everyone with the same curve. The things that posters say on CAF is from their perspective. We don’t know the priests to whom they refer. Maybe the poster doesn’t know that there is another side. The poster may be expressing his or her frustration, based on his or her expectations and perception. That does not mean that those exepctations or perceptions are right. It just means that they are real.

We must respect each poster, but not generalize about every parish priest.

Thanks.

Fraternally,

Br, JR, OSF

Oh, good grief. I was hoping you and others would read between the lines. I’m not talking about relaxing. I’m talking about shirking duties. And that’s all I’m going to say about it lest I cross over some forum or personal line.

This was a personal vent and a very disappointing experience. I am well aware of other perspectives I just didn’t mention them all here. I just don’t have time to do that. I try to give the reader the benefit of the doubt that they will get what i was saying.

 

[Fan_of_M_Ricci]

My RCIA was at a very modern-minded Church. That being said, the RCIA was great; the curriculum was based on Scripture and a used a simplified version of the Catechism. Admitedly, it might not have been as thorough as some others, for example we didn’t cover the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit. But, we were well informed when we were baptized/received into the Church. Now, one of the people in m RCIA group has joined a Benedicitne order.

Some RCIAs are probably not as informative as they should be. But many are quite good. Even if they don’t teach everything about the faith, that’s ok. As a convert, I love that there are new things to learn!

 

[Holly3278]

That was not my experience at all. My RCIA director was fully orthodox. We had the deacon with us during most of our classes. His name was Deacon Levi. I won’t give out his last name for privacy reasons. Anyway, I really enjoyed RCIA and I felt like I received a good Catholic education.

 

[Don_L]

Improper RCIA is merely a symptom - the problem is unauthentic Catholicism

The real problem is that non-Catholics are the most susceptable to those elements within the Church that have taken over many positions of power and influence, as a direct result of their revolution aginst the traditional Church, as handed down by the apostles. Pope Paul, after naively allowing them to gain power and become entrenched, woke up to this maelstrom and finally announced that, “The Smoke of Satan has entered the tabernacle.”

Under various movements “radical feminism” (read Donna Steichen’s “Ungodly Rage” a real eye -opener) and the “Spirit of Vatican II” were unleashed, undermining Rome’s directives and causing massive defections in the clergy and the religious. Catechesis was attacked and maligned so that the word Catholic could not reasonably be used to identify the teachings.The poor were not to be dealt with through charity, but with UZI’s and revolution (see Nicaraugua and liberation theology/Jesuits) Catholic colleges were infiltrated by the revolutionarys and meek or complicite Bishops failed to stop the destruction. Sin was out along with the confessionals, guitars and “people of god,” centered music, replaced traditional, God centered worship music. Many CCD classes taught whatever feel-good fad was in vogue in lieu of sound catechesis.Many of the misled sheep left the faith for those unathentic sects that promised salvation and dealt with sin as a reality -not social phenomenon.

The un-knowing masses of Sunday church-going Catholics have little idea of the contamination that has entered their church and the poor converts have a roulette wheel chance of receiving true instruction in the faith.

My diocese still allows (with the knowledge of the Bishop) a priest to hold parish instruction stating that “we’re all going to heaven,” and he replaces the hierarchy with the radical feminist model of the church where the Apostles (priests) are no more important the the least ignorant parishioner. Letters, both private and public are hollow weapons agianst this evil.

The common priesthood was elevated, and the “Real Presence” was ridiculed and undermined as the “People of God” took over most every Church institution. Justice and Peace social work replaced salvation as the primary purpose of the “New Church.”

Our job as Catholics is to inform ourselves about our faith, that we might be saved and spread the true faith, that others might be saved.

As far as RCIA is concerned -if it is not authentic, our job is to ride the Pastors and Bishops until they make it so. This is our battle and souls are at stake.

This is the main reason that 53% of Catholics support an pro-infanticide president and over 200 bishops stayed silent when Notre Dame honored him.

Sorry for the weak history - I recommend that you research it using many sources, lest you follow a piper inststead of Christ.

 

[Lepanto]

The original post linked to blog by a priest who seems unable to get along with pastors in Catholic churches where he has served: “By the time I had finished my first three and a half years as a priest, I had been moved to my ninth parish.”

He doesn’t like the pastors he had served under…

That’s a huge presumption.

Maybe he was moved because he was telling them things that they needed to hear – but they didn’t want to hear it. Like things about their RCIA programs.