This priest says: "RCIA, how it is currently practiced, is pathetic and shameful."

[mystagogia]

I had two experiences with RCIA. First one was what I’d consider a disaster. The second one worked out pretty well. On the first one, I looked up the nearest Catholic Church, called it, made an appointment with pastor and went there to announce to him I wanted to convert (I wasn’t aware of RCIA and didn’t know how to join the Church). He was actually a little irked and it showed, and wound up telling me come back in the fall and sign up for RCIA.

The second time I picked the second closest Catholic Church, and I went in and got one of their church bulletins and showed up for opening day of RCIA. Initially there were about 12 of us. Throughout the progress of the year a whole bunch of people came and went. I’d say about 25 different folks went to at least one meeting. We had at times some dramas that really were non-doctrinal and not necessay and this drove some away. Stuff like current events (this was a presidential campaign year and we were at war, so that’s a hedge). In the end I and one other wound up getting confirmed from that whole number.

I have mixed feelings about RCIA. I realize the intent, which is sound, but I also have seen some drawbacks. When it works, it’s a great thing. Yet it can easily slew over to a needless entry barrier to joining the Church.

My personal feeling is that the RCIA process should be simplified, shortened and made less onerous. The only other alternative is to place hope in better training of the RCIA leaders, and I think that’s a very problematic proposition. A more open avenue to the Church is advisable.

My two cents.

 

[Lepanto]

While there may be some RCIA programs that are substandard, I’m not sure that you can go from the stories you hear from the posts in CA forums. People are most likely to speak up when they have a complaint, not when they are satisfied. My impression is that most programs are pretty good and that their “graduates” are happy with their experience.

It’s important to have “happy” graduates. But the more telling question is: how many of them are still practicing the faith five years later?

 

[Disciple96]

I have mixed feelings about RCIA. I realize the intent, which is sound, but I also have seen some drawbacks. When it works, it’s a great thing. Yet it can easily slew over to a needless entry barrier to joining the Church.

My personal feeling is that the RCIA process should be simplified, shortened and made less onerous. The only other alternative is to place hope in better training of the RCIA leaders, and I think that’s a very problematic proposition. A more open avenue to the Church is advisable.

My two cents.

Yeah, I agree with a lot of that. I do think it needs work. But the early Church put people through a much longer process, three years, wasn’t it? I’m not sure that we need to shorten the process even more. We do need to make it more effective. What I wish is that more instructors actually spent their time (and the class’s time) teaching what the Church teaches instead of their own often ill-informed, misinformed, and bordering on heretical opinions. We have wasted a lot of time in our classes and, honestly, I don’t believe anyone in there is well-prepared to be received into the Church as a faithful, informed and committed practicing Catholic. And that’s sad: we’ve been meeting since mid-April!

 

[Al_Masetti]

Al M.,
The USCCB has a survey they did; it had some interesting information, although, I don’t know if it’s exactly what you’re wondering about. Here’s the link: usccb.org/evangelization/data.shtml

I was aghast at the tiny numbers in the RCIA survey. Agreed, it was just a sample.

But there did not appear to be any data on the total numbers who entered the Church via RCIA.

And there was no “before” data … the numbers of people who entered the Church prior to establishment of the RCIA program.

 

[Geremia]

This priest says: “RCIA, how it is currently practiced, is pathetic and shameful.”

This is true. Only people trained in seminaries (i.e., ordained priests) have the authority to catechize those wanting to become Catholic. After all, they are the ones performing the sacraments. A similar abomination occurs when lay couples prepare engaged Catholics for marriage. They are not going to be the primary witness of the sacrament; only a priest is. Also, why should the blind lead the blind?

I have heard of many blasphemies taught at RCIA classes such as this contradiction that seems to sum up the post-conciliar Church: “Chaos is ordered, too.” From which people mean that good results from chaos regardless if God is involved or not.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

This is true. Only people trained in seminaries (i.e., ordained priests) have the authority to catechize those wanting to become Catholic. After all, they are the ones performing the sacraments. A similar abomination occurs when lay couples prepare engaged Catholics for marriage. They are not going to be the primary witness of the sacrament; only a priest is. Also, why should the blind lead the blind?

I have heard of many blasphemies taught at RCIA classes such as this contradiction that seems to sum up the post-conciliar Church: “Chaos is ordered, too.” From which people mean that good results from chaos regardless if God is involved or not.

You don’t seem to realize that the position of **Catechist, **is an official position in the Church.The Catechist is trained and granted a share in the teaching mission of the Church by the local Bishop (and Pastor). Catechists should not be apointed willy-nilly, or from anyone who shows up and is walking and breathing, I agree.

 

[fabricdragon]

There are good, and bad, RCIA classes.
sadly i feel that many classes are led by people who themselves have little grounding in the basic tenets of the faith.

my RCIA class was… mixed.
we were taught by a Sister who tried very hard, but was not really accustomed to having people in the class who were… umm… perhaps a bit more advanced theologically than usual (we had 3 PKs converting from other Protestant groups, including me)

The Priests. well we had one who was a kind, and fairly doctrinally sound priest, and one who was a lovely person, but feeling the deep shortage of priests, felt the answer was to have women priests, and etc. and was… uh. rather more Episcopalian in tone.
oddly, the most vocal opponents of that were the three PKs. we had seen what the demands of both parish family, and home family, can do.

we didnt cover the Rosary (afraid to scare off the protestants?) but i GAVE a rosary to every single person in our class… and pamphlets. and not one of them objected.

for me, i learned far more about Catholicism from my “for Dummies” book.

i know some of that was because we also had people in the class who were new to organized religion… so i must excuse some of the “sunday school and video” attitude as reaching the beginers… but the “advocating women priests” and aall?
sigh

 

[adowcday]

This is true. Only people trained in seminaries (i.e., ordained priests) have the authority to catechize those wanting to become Catholic. After all, they are the ones performing the sacraments. A similar abomination occurs when lay couples prepare engaged Catholics for marriage. They are not going to be the primary witness of the sacrament; only a priest is. Also, why should the blind lead the blind?

I have heard of many blasphemies taught at RCIA classes such as this contradiction that seems to sum up the post-conciliar Church: “Chaos is ordered, too.” From which people mean that good results from chaos regardless if God is involved or not.

Your love for the priesthood is admirable, but relying on priests for catechesis for those wishing to become Catholics, for marriage preparation, etc., is no longer possible, if it ever was. Our priests simply have too much to do and aren’t trained to do everything that we’d like them to. Many lay people are well trained, gifted and capable. It’s not an abomination for mothers and fathers to teach their children or for married couples to teach young spouses-to-be. It’s the way it should be and the way it must be if those jobs are going to be done.

By the way, I’m not sure how the statement “Chaos is ordered, too” is blasphemous, i.e., an insult to God. I don’t think you need to interpret that statement to mean that God is not involved.

 

[Joannm]

This is true. Only people trained in seminaries (i.e., ordained priests) have the authority to catechize those wanting to become Catholic. After all, they are the ones performing the sacraments. A similar abomination occurs when lay couples prepare engaged Catholics for marriage. They are not going to be the primary witness of the sacrament; only a priest is. Also, why should the blind lead the blind?

I have heard of many blasphemies taught at RCIA classes such as this contradiction that seems to sum up the post-conciliar Church: “Chaos is ordered, too.” From which people mean that good results from chaos regardless if God is involved or not.

Why would you say that married people doing marriage prep is “the blind leading the blind.” Who better to talk about married life than married couples? A priest may have a lot of book knowledge about marriage but he never was up all night nursing a sick child then had to get up the next day and go to work or care for other kids. He never had to deal with wondering where he would get money for the kids college when there is harldy enough to pay the bills. He never had to deal with a spouse going through a serious illness or dealing with an addiction of a spouse or taking care of sick elderly in-laws. These are all things that are touched upon in pre marriage sessions…the real problems of marriage and how those things affect the spiritual life of a couple. Also, a priest doesn’t have sex, so no matter how much he reads or hears confessions or counsels, he doesn’t know what really goes on in a couples bedroom Yes, sex questions do come up in pre-cana…not just NFP stuff but other areas of sex as well, but then again, who better to addresss specific sexual questions. Married couples work together with the priests in Pre-Cana sessions and it should be that way.

Also, I was trained at a Catholic seminary and have two degrees from the seminary, so just because I am not ordained, following your logic, I should not be teaching. Does some all encompasing knowledge come with ordination that others who have gone through the exact same coureses as priests do not possess? Also, not all priests teach with orthodoxy.

 

[larsenl1]

I just wanted to say that the RCIA program at my parish is very good. It is taught by a Deacon and his wife. Wives must go through the entire four year Diaconate training with their husbands. We use the USCCB Catechism and handouts from an RCIA program. Each catechumen receives an outline of the course material, a catechism, a bible and a cd with the supplemental reading. Each Sunday we meet for 1 1/2 hours to discuss the church. Our class is fun and interesting. We have volunteers who are responsible for hospitality, volunteers who are responsible for name tags, baptism certificates and sponsors. We have sponsor training.

It saddens me to read about so many people unhappy with the catechism they received. If anyone is near Des Moines, Iowa, please come to Christ the King parish at 8:30 a.m. on Sunday mornings.

 

[adowcday]

I just wanted to say that the RCIA program at my parish is very good. It is taught by a Deacon and his wife. Wives must go through the entire four year Diaconate training with their husbands. We use the USCCB Catechism and handouts from an RCIA program. Each catechumen receives an outline of the course material, a catechism, a bible and a cd with the supplemental reading. Each Sunday we meet for 1 1/2 hours to discuss the church. Our class is fun and interesting. We have volunteers who are responsible for hospitality, volunteers who are responsible for name tags, baptism certificates and sponsors. We have sponsor training.

It saddens me to read about so many people unhappy with the catechism they received. If anyone is near Des Moines, Iowa, please come to Christ the King parish at 8:30 a.m. on Sunday mornings.

Unfortunately, for many on the CA forums, lay people, no matter how thoroughly trained, are completely incapable of teaching others the faith in any context. Moreover, even clergy need to pass orthodoxy tests (apparently administered by the same incompetent lay persons). Most clergy fail that test. See the original post in this thread and the screed from the young priest who condemned the eight or so priests whose parishes he served in as an associate and the many lay persons he had worked with. More and more of these young traditionalists are graduating from our seminaries and being ordained. God help us and the lay folk who support this addled thinking.

 

[fultonfish]

From time to time, I have been asked to be a baptism sponsor for adults going thru RCIA.

Acting as godparent, I would call a month later to ask how things were going, in a very unintrusive manner.

Often I found that they weren’t going to Mass on Sunday.

Why?

Because they didn’t know they were supposed to go to Mass.

So I would invite them to lunch and give them some booklets from TAN books and a set or rosary beads and just explain the weekly routine of regular Catholics. Mass; Holy Communion; how often to get to confession - more or less; how to make an examination of conscience - by booklet. I always tried to keep it light and lively; no bible thumping or finger shaking or any of that.
With Catholic Answers it is easy to give them some additional references regarding politically “sensitive” subjects such as birth control and abortion.

Maybe there ought to be a page on CAF on the normal weekly routine of normal Catholics, Mass, etc. There already is a book on “what Catholics believe”, but what we need is a simple booklet on “what Catholics do”.*

 

[Disciple96]

Often I found that they weren’t going to Mass on Sunday. Why? Because they didn’t know they were supposed to go to Mass…Maybe there ought to be a page on CAF on the normal weekly routine of normal Catholics, Mass, etc. There already is a book on “what Catholics believe”, but what we need is a simple booklet on “what Catholics do”.

They didn’t know? Oy, fultonfish! This is just what I’ve been talking about on my blog, people are not being taught, and haven’t been taught for so long that the people teaching now never were taught and it’s like the blind leading the blind. Oy ve! :banghead:

Okay, it doesn’t really make me bang my head against the wall, but I do find it very annoying. I also find it amazing that “instructors” will hand out books that they won’t refer to again for the next few months. Or not much anyway. Certainly not when they need to brush up or refresh their memories or even learn for the first time ever what the Church teaches and what she expects from her children. I mean, do we raise kids and make 'em guess what the rules are? No, we teach them! How will they learn if we don’t teach them?

I also address this idea of Developing a Catholic Worldview in the Resources section of my blog. And throughout, really. It’s part of the reason I started writing the thing. Because non-Catholics often have misconceptions or no conception of what the Church is. And Catholics too often have some serious misconceptions or no conception at all of what the Church really is. As evidenced by the story you shared with us above. I’m glad to know that you are out there, doing your best to help the people at your parish. I think that’s great. We’ve all got to do what we can to bring about the New Evangelization. And the New Re-Evangelization too.

Peace be with you, fultonfish.

Disciple

 

[GwenL]

There are an interesting range of experiences here. I started RCIA in late August. We use the Catechism of the Catholic Church as our syllabus and our priest teaches every class, with the deacon at his side. We start by going through the coming Sunday’s readings and explore them in depth, especially as they apply to today’s life. We spend quite a bit of time on the CCC. We also get handouts of magazine readings and excerpts. Our priest sticks around for as long as people want afterwards to answer questions.

He’s explained each sacrament in detail. He’s explained, and given us handouts, on holy obligations. He’s told me that we’re going to go through the Nicene creed word by word. Next class, we’ll go through the Our Father word by word. We also will go through each of the Ten Commandments, and examples from today’s world.

As in my many other educational experiences, I think it comes down to leadership. The boss cares, he sets the standards, and he runs the show. Also, he’s made it quite clear that it’s up to us to read and explore on our own and ask questions (in private or public).

Another thing that’s made our sessions valuable and interesting: we have a combination of RCIA types (baptized as well as never-baptized like me), and Catholics who are interested in learning more about their faith. These latter are polite enough to not snicker at our questions, and diplomatic enough not to dominate the conversation. They are also the same folks that I see at weekday masses, so I suspect that they are in RCIA classes to help and guide.

Something I am going to develop and suggest to our priest is an electronic reference. He’s not at all savvy about the internet, but I think a reference of internet sites would be really helpful to RCIA attendees that do use the internet. Does anyone know…is there a “stamp of approval” of any sort for blogs or internet sites? I have also found some great I phone applications (with prayers, the missal, daily readings, etc.). Ideas appreciated.

Gwen

 

[larsenl1]

Unfortunately, for many on the CA forums, lay people, no matter how thoroughly trained, are completely incapable of teaching others the faith in any context.

A Deacon is an ordained clergy who is able to administer the sacraments of baptism and marriage. I am happy to say that our Deacon is orthodox. We learn from Tradition and Scripture. We learn from the early church fathers.

Yes, many clergy and lay people teach incorrect doctrine. Hopefully those seeking the truth will find it in spite of poor catechesis.

I did read the original post. I merely wanted to say something positive and invite people to continue to search for the Word of God.

May God touch your heart and warm it just a little to thaw some of your bitterness.

 

[Disciple96]

There are an interesting range of experiences here. I started RCIA in late August. We use the Catechism of the Catholic Church as our syllabus and our priest teaches every class…

As in my many other educational experiences, I think it comes down to leadership. The boss cares, he sets the standards, and he runs the show. Also, he’s made it quite clear that it’s up to us to read and explore on our own and ask questions (in private or public)…

Gwen

Yep, having the priest (especially if he is orthodox and especially if he is a true teacher and teacher of truth) run the show is ideal. That was my own experience. Of course, we were not a tiny parish but not a large one either. We only had 4 in our class and we didn’t do the RCIA, we just did the Know You Fait’ class.

Hey, he was an old Irishman, so it also sounded like Know Your Fate. Heh!

The new Catechism had recently been published in the U.S. and he taught a series of classes on it, which were wonderful and only whetted my appetite for more. That’s when I signed up for the Know Your Fate, er, Faith classes. He brought so much to all of his teaching, whether from the pulpit or in the various classes. He brought his long experience as a devout and devoted priest, and also from having grown up in a Catholic culture, something most of my friends and acquaintances don’t really have any experience of at all. I don’t mean the culture we have when we get together, but a culture that is saturated with Catholic Christianity through and through, where they stop in the middle of what they’re doing to pray the Angelus, on the radio, in the stores, wherever they are. Or were. I don’t know if it’s still like that. But he grew up in this very different world that he brought with him and shared with us.

And he understood mystagogy. He knew how to teach us in and through the rituals. He understood what they were for and how to use them. How to “dramatize” them, how to create setting and point us to the realities that the words and rites point us to, or are supposed to point us to, if someone shows us.

May the Church be blessed with many priests like him, priests who are devoted to Christ Who is the Way, the Truth and the Life, to His Blessed Mother and our Mother, and to the Church, the family of God. May we, the members of the Body of Christ, the Church, keep our priests and catechists in our prayers and work to help them in any way we can for the salvation of souls.

Amen.

 

[Geremia]

Why would you say that married people doing marriage prep is “the blind leading the blind.” Who better to talk about married life than married couples?

Oh yeah, priests know nothing about marriage because they’ve never experienced it.

A priest may have a lot of book knowledge about marriage but he never was up all night nursing a sick child then had to get up the next day and go to work or care for other kids.

A priest never has to give last rites at 2 in morning to a dying, prematurely-born baby? A priest does not have any children to baptize, catechize, administer First Communion, teach to be an altar boy, and to be a spiritual father for?

He never had to deal with wondering where he would get money for the kids college when there is harldy enough to pay the bills.

A priest does not have to worry about his parish’s finances?

He never had to deal with a spouse going through a serious illness or dealing with an addiction of a spouse or taking care of sick elderly in-laws.

He has to deal with his fellow priests and nuns going through these things.

These are all things that are touched upon in pre marriage sessions…the real problems of marriage and how those things affect the spiritual life of a couple. Also, a priest doesn’t have sex, so no matter how much he reads or hears confessions or counsels, he doesn’t know what really goes on in a couples bedroom Yes, sex questions do come up in pre-cana…not just NFP stuff but other areas of sex as well, but then again, who better to addresss specific sexual questions. Married couples work together with the priests in Pre-Cana sessions and it should be that way.

Sure, it’s okay to have married couples talk about their experience being married, but it should ultimately be the priest leading marriage prep classes.

Also, I was trained at a Catholic seminary and have two degrees from the seminary, so just because I am not ordained, following your logic, I should not be teaching. Does some all encompasing knowledge come with ordination that others who have gone through the exact same coureses as priests do not possess?

No, you are right when you say it is not all book knowledge.

Also, not all priests teach with orthodoxy.

I think Catholic couples, most of whom practice contraception, are definitely not qualified, though.

 

[sckcd]

I am currently in RCIA and have been enjoying it. It has only been going for 3 weeks now, so we aren’t that far into it, but it’s been informative so far. Our priest leads it and there are 2 deacons and their wives (I guess they are deacons, that’s what we’d call them at my Baptist church) who help. So far we’ve gone over the OT in a casual lecture/discussion-style. It’s sort of like bible review for those of us who are already Christians and familiar with the bible. It will get more in depth into Catholic teachings as we go, I’ve been told. (Not that the bible isn’t Catholic, but you know what I mean, the Catechism stuff)

 

[njmama]

I went through RCIA last year and had a great experience. The class was led by our priest and the church’s designated RCIA teacher (a social worker with a deep love for theology, apologetics, etc). It was nice, after so much schooling, to have a laymen’s perspective on matters of faith and church history! Not liberal at all, very thorough. I was lucky to be in a class with forthright people so a lot of tough questions were asked and answered.

I feel bad for my friends (especially those back home in the north east) who have had RCIA experiences like those described in the OP’s article.

 

[Cider]

I’d like everyone’s recommendation for an RCIA “text” book that can be used to accompany the catechism and bible.

Something challenging, but not overly academic either. The book that we used (I don’t recall the name), was far too simplistic and vague.

This is the Faith by Canon Francis Ripley.