This priest says: "RCIA, how it is currently practiced, is pathetic and shameful."

[paperwight]

Oh, your poor poor lady! I’m so sorry that happened to you - or rather, I’m sure that in the long run breaking down like that will lead to healing, but I’m so sorry that you felt so embarrassed.

After I lost my daughter, the oddest thing would bring flashbacks. On one occasion some years later, I was actually standing at the front of church administering Holy Communion, and all of a sudden I remembered how she’d teased me once about the way I said ‘The Body of Christ’ because according to her, I hissed on the ‘s’ of Christ. It was really difficult, trying to stop tears coming, while meanwhile continuing to give Holy Communion smoothly to my queue. The most difficult part was saying the words, as my throat seemd almost paralysed with pain…

I’m telling you this in the hope it reassures you that you are not ‘losing it’.

God bless you. I hope you feel better now.

 

[paperwight]

Oh, your poor poor lady! I’m so sorry that happened to you - or rather, I’m sure that in the long run breaking down like that will lead to healing, but I’m so sorry that you felt so embarrassed.

After I lost my daughter, the oddest thing would bring flashbacks. On one occasion some years later, I was actually standing at the front of church administering Holy Communion, and all of a sudden I remembered how she’d teased me once about the way I said ‘The Body of Christ’ because according to her, I hissed on the ‘s’ of Christ. It was really difficult, trying to stop tears coming, while meanwhile continuing to give Holy Communion smoothly to my queue. The most difficult part was saying the words, as my throat seemd almost paralysed with pain…

I’m telling you this in the hope it reassures you that you are not ‘losing it’.

God bless you. I hope you feel better now.

 

[Disciple96]

Hi everyone, I attended my first meeting in RCIA today…There was only myself and one other lady going through this process. I must say I feel a little in the spotlight and broke down crying when I was asked to address myself in front of the father and catechist… when I referenced my relationship with god after helping my husband battle through cancer twice…

The flood of emotions that came back to me were overpowering…I can’t believe I broke down at all…The whole room went silent and no body spoke until I sorted myself out…They were all loving but doing this only with two people makes this process so frightening…as the centre of attention…I hate attention…I am a quiet girl… I do hope next week will be more comfortable…I still can’t believe I behaved in that way…it’s like all the memories came flooding back to me as I spoke about our misfortune…

Has anyone felt like that before…

Hey there, Mistyjazz. I took the “Know Your Faith” classes (not the RCIA) with only three other people (3 men) with a wonderful old Irish priest instructing us. My memories of the class fill me with warmth and joy. I relished being able to have time to really get down and discuss things and ask many questions and receiving the personal attention such a small class afforded. The Catechism class I took before I took the “Know Your Faith” class was held in the parish school lunchroom and every table was full; and after the priest took over teaching us, we had to bring in extra chairs from all over the parish building. It was interesting and exciting, but the large size of the class meant very little time for extended and deep discussion, which was understandable but a bit frustrating.

Give yourself time to open up and to heal, or to heal and open up, whichever order these things happen in. Perhaps both at once. Let the priest and Christ through him work on you as you discover more about the faith. Please do not be hard on yourself. You may find out that you are not as shy as you may think now.

I’m glad you have taken the step of attending the RCIA. Hang in there and steep yourself in prayer, especially before the Blessed Sacrament. Who better to teach you the faith than the Author of that faith Himself?

The peace of Christ be with you.
Disciple

 

[Disciple96]

Sometimes these programs backfire–I actually know of several cases where some Protestants were thinking about joining the Catholic Church but in the end they didn’t go through with the RCIA programs–because the RCIA program had given them the impression that the Church wasn’t pro-life. Happened at two separate parishes in my Archdiocese. Truly disgraceful.

I’ve had this experience in our class where I’m sponsoring a friend. An entire family from a Protestant communion have been attending the class and one day (the one day my friend and I missed class because they had changed the schedule without making sure that everyone got a copy of the new one) some so-called Catholic layperson was in the classroom and she and some other so-called Catholic were discussing evolutionary theory and the Protestant family had questions about this. They were told that the Church teaches–teaches, mind you–evolution. (Now bear in mind that I wasn’t there but this is what the mother of that family has told me several times.)

It bothered these good people so much that they went out to the parking lot after class and seriously discussed whether or not they wanted to continue the classes. Well, as soon as I heard them talking about it at the next class, I had to break into the conversation. I told them most emphatically that the Church does not teach evolution of any kind (there are apparently three major ways of thinking about evolutionary theory; it’s atheistic Darwinian evolutionary theory that the Church has serious problems with, understandably so), but that the Church allows us to make up our own minds about this after doing some research and thinking and praying, and that as long as what we accept does not conflict with the teachings of the Church, we are pretty much free to proceed at will.

We have been given rational minds and we are expected to use them. We are also expected to find out what the Church actually teaches and to try to understand to the best of our ability according to the limits of human reason and to have faith in Christ and His Church and to adhere to the Truth that is revealed by Him in His Church.

I also told them that the next time they had any questions as to what the Church actually teaches, they should not accept the word of any Catholic; they should, rather, look it up in the Catechism which is an excellent book to study and ponder. This incident has troubled them greatly; I know, because they have brought it up at every class now. We almost lost them, all because of some ignorant remark by some Catholic who is ignorant of the teachings of the Church and there is simply no excuse since the Catechism came out many years ago and is so readily available in print, online, and many many study helps are out there too.

So, Catholics, how about learning the faith before telling someone what the Church teaches, huh? Especially catechists! Our instructor told our class this Sunday that St John the Baptist was an Essene. I very nearly exploded. My friend said I actually flinched. My shoulders and my head jerked to attention. Did I speak up? You bet I did. I don’t want those same folks to be scandalized yet again. Oy ve, why doesn’t he just teach from the Catechism and stop trying to learn his faith from the Heresy Channel, er, I mean, the History Channel.

 

[Joannm]

Hi everyone, I attended my first meeting in RCIA today…There was only myself and one other lady going through this process. I must say I feel a little in the spotlight and broke down crying when I was asked to address myself in front of the father and catechist… when I referenced my relationship with god after helping my husband battle through cancer twice…

The flood of emotions that came back to me were overpowering…I can’t believe I broke down at all…The whole room went silent and no body spoke until I sorted myself out…They were all loving but doing this only with two people makes this process so frightening…as the centre of attention…I hate attention…I am a quiet girl… I do hope next week will be more comfortable…I still can’t believe I behaved in that way…it’s like all the memories came flooding back to me as I spoke about our misfortune…

Has anyone felt like that before…

I have worked in RCIA for many many years and I can tell you that what happened to you is not that unusual. When people share their faith journey the emotions often take over. This can happen in small faith communities and even happens in classes I teach when people start sharing from their deepest self. It is healing and helps one grow closer to God. Two years ago in RCIA we had a Muslim woman who cried every week for the first month or two.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I went through RCIA a few years ago in Idaho, and I experienced everything that this priest mentions.

fatherpaul.org/didaskalos/editorials_answers/vocation/RCIA_and_priests.html

My RCIA class was taught by a woman with a Masters of Divinity, but she was as liberal as they come (she would’ve made a nice Episcopalian). Every lecture sounded like a manifesto on social justice, but completely devoid of spiritual content. Our pastor only showed up for one of our classes the entire year. I sometimes wondered, was he really too busy to visit a classroom of 25 prospective converts?

Anyways, the priest-author of this article made me chuckle, too. He really nailed it, even the detail about "In the center of the room is a table, and on the table there is a doily, upon which one may find a bible open to some random page, and a candle burning. Of course, these are mere props, sacred things brought forth to ‘create an atmosphere.’ "

Our classroom had the same props, of course.

If you went through RCIA, was this your experience?

My RCIA experience had many parallels with what this priest describes. It included a lot of political correctness and seemed more designed to explain the exceptions to the Church’s moral teachings, and how to get around the Church’s moral teachings, than it was designed to present what the Church teaches. Especially on moral issues. It was really a pretty unfortunate experience, overall. Thankfully, I was dead serious about Catholicism, so I got everything I needed to know online, on CAF and a variety of Catholic websites.

By the way, I love your username, “Lepanto.”

 

[Disciple96]

I’ve got the impression that to be a catechists in most places, all you have to do is show up. So am I correct in assuming that no preparation of catechists takes place in most cases, in most places? Unless the priest gets involved and makes it happen?

In a parish in a nearby town, the priest who was there ordered boxes and boxes of audio sets of Bible study and Catholic apologetics from St. Joseph Communications and elsewhere, and lots of books too, including the catechism, for his catechists to use. He said that they would study those and teach from them. We always loved to see him drive up in the parking lot when I worked at the diocesan bookstore years ago.

Man, I really miss those days. That was the best job I’ve ever had. Right up my alley. I got paid to find cool stuff for us to carry and go out to parishes doing book tables, among many other things. What a blessing that was. I wasn’t even Catholic yet, but it didn’t take long for me to get hooked.

 

[Fan_of_M_Ricci]

I’ve got the impression that to be a catechists in most places, all you have to do is show up. So am I correct in assuming that no preparation of catechists takes place in most cases, in most places? Unless the priest gets involved and makes it happen?

I should say not! My RCIA program was run by laypeople, and its was both engaging and informative! More importantly, it prepared us spiritually, with a lot of prayers!

 

[Disciple96]

I should say not! My RCIA program was run by laypeople, and its was both engaging and informative! More importantly, it prepared us spiritually, with a lot of prayers!

It’s good to hear that your experience is different, but I gotta tell ya, most of the responses I’ve read, and most of what I hear from others all over the country, sadly, is that your experience is not the usual and common experience. Yours is, rather, the uncommon and the exceptional. Alas.

 

[adowcday]

It’s good to hear that your experience is different, but I gotta tell ya, most of the responses I’ve read, and most of what I hear from others all over the country, sadly, is that your experience is not the usual and common experience. Yours is, rather, the uncommon and the exceptional. Alas.

While there may be some RCIA programs that are substandard, I’m not sure that you can go from the stories you hear from the posts in CA forums. People are most likely to speak up when they have a complaint, not when they are satisfied. My impression is that most programs are pretty good and that their “graduates” are happy with their experience.

 

[perfectpeach]

Our RCIA class was average. Not bad, but not excellent either. We had three priests so I was hoping we would get more instruction from at least one of them. I would say less than 1/3 of the classes were taught by a priest and the rest of the classes were taught by helpers who tried their best. I learned most of what I know here on CAF or independent study.

 

[Disciple96]

While there may be some RCIA programs that are substandard, I’m not sure that you can go from the stories you hear from the posts in CA forums. People are most likely to speak up when they have a complaint, not when they are satisfied. My impression is that most programs are pretty good and that their “graduates” are happy with their experience.

I’m not going solely by what I’ve read here at all. I’m going by what I have observed and what I have heard from people all over the place. (This is not the only place where I talk to people.) I also have a very good friend who works for a certain network and is a theologian who has noticed the same sad lack. I’ve heard it from priests too. This is a major problem and one that needs to be addressed and is being addressed in our diocese by our bishop, God bless him. He recruited someone to help him with it here but the man died before they could set things in place. But the work is needed, the need is acknowledged and is widespread.

And this is nothing new. I’ve heard these stories for many years.

 

[laurenharper]

Wow, what a negative experience. It’s no wonder so many people are misinformed/confused about Catholicism. I have been extremely fortunate to be having a GREAT RCIA experience (so far this year at least, and I anticipate it will only get better!), with passionate, knowledgable Catholics leading it. It has not only been informative, but I’ve had the opportunity to meet a lot of godly people there. Come to Little Rock AR for a good RCIA/parish experience!

 

[Don_L]

Wow, what a negative experience. It’s no wonder so many people are misinformed/confused about Catholicism. I have been extremely fortunate to be having a GREAT RCIA experience (so far this year at least, and I anticipate it will only get better!), with passionate, knowledgable Catholics leading it. It has not only been informative, but I’ve had the opportunity to meet a lot of godly people there. Come to Little Rock AR for a good RCIA/parish experience!

It is clear that when 53% of Catholics vote for a man who openly and agressively supports the slaughter of innocent life outside the womb; when Catholic politicians are reelcted voicing support for abortion and openly opposing their Church, RCIA and Catechesis has failed completely. When more than 200 Bishops remain silent during a public battle when a “Catholic” institution like Notre Dame choses to"Honor" this evil man, we probably are looking at much of the reason for it’s failure. It does appear now that the remnents of this Church are in the hands of a few clergy and a larger group of re-awakend Catholics,fervent youth, and converts, who are now carrying the faith. Such obvious and inarguable destruction of the Church of Christ, cannot either be ignored or misunderstood, simply because our parish happens to be escaping the downfall at the present time.

As Paul says, it is time to discern and admonish and pray! We will prevail, but lots of battles (and souls) are being lost in the meantime.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Haven’t read all the posts yet, but I wonder if there are any reliable data on the numbers of converts before and after introduction of RCIA.

Mostly I just want to mark this thread and come back to it.

But it seems to me the number of converts has dropped off. Used to be LARGE numbers of converts.

Mass attendance has also dropped off, along with the number of ordinations of priests.

 

[Disciple96]

Haven’t read all the posts yet, but I wonder if there are any reliable data on the numbers of converts before and after introduction of RCIA.

Mostly I just want to mark this thread and come back to it.

But it seems to me the number of converts has dropped off. Used to be LARGE numbers of converts.

Mass attendance has also dropped off, along with the number of ordinations of priests.

Yep, we have been in a vocation crisis in this country for a while now. We’re actually a mission territory, ya know. Other countries send priests to us to evangelize us. I’m glad they do but isn’t sad that they have to? Africa is the new Ireland, sending us so many wonderful priests, and India too, praised be God.

But you can definitely listen to so-called Catholics in this country (especially those in public office) and see that we really are in need of what JPII called for, and that is a re-evangelization of Catholics who should already know their faith but obviously do not. How can these people be expected to hand on a faith which they do not know and do not hold onto faithfully at all?

 

[kimbaichan]

Al M.,
The USCCB has a survey they did; it had some interesting information, although, I don’t know if it’s exactly what you’re wondering about. Here’s the link: usccb.org/evangelization/data.shtml

 

[Disciple96]

Al M.,
The USCCB has a survey they did; it had some interesting information, although, I don’t know if it’s exactly what you’re wondering about. Here’s the link: usccb.org/evangelization/data.shtml

Hi, I know you posted this for Al, but I wanted to say thanks, I’m interested in seeing this too. I’ve got that page open now to read.

 

[Disciple96]

Okay, I really am glad you posted that link above, kimbaichan. I’ve found some interesting things already.

Approximately fifty percent of dioceses have a directory or guidelines for the RCIA.

50%. That means that the other 50% do not have a directory or guidelines.

Most are involved in the training and certification of catechists.

Most, not all. (And I can tell you that a whole lot of catechists that I’ve seen over the years are simply volunteers, warm bodies who generally show up to “teach” and I use the word loosely. As I mentioned earlier, our bishop hasn’t been here all that long and is working very hard to change things, but it takes time.)

Some dioceses provide lists of doctrinal topics to be covered in the course of the RCIA, connecting them with the Sunday Scriptures that are the focus of lectionary-based catechesis.

Some. (And I haven’t noticed ours being connected to the lectionary, except maybe once. It’s very often not even connected to Catholic teaching!

Many report that their parishes rely on other published resources that assist fulfilling this same aim of a thorough catechesis with a lectionary-based reflection. Dioceses regularly have materials available for consideration by parish teams. Commonly used programs and materials for adults and children include Catholic Updates, Foundations of Faith, Handbook for Today’s Catholic, What It Means to Be Catholic, Come and See, Seasons of Faith, and others.

The instructors handed out copies of the Catechism to the candidates and catechumens, Bibles, the Handbook mentioned above, and Outlines of The Catholic Faith. They sometimes have these and other books on the table in front of them (we have two instructors who are sometimes together, sometimes not). They are also deacons. But they generally don’t teach from these materials, they generally don’t reference these materials, they generally don’t seem to prepare at all for the classes, and they generally don’t seem to have more than a very rudimentary knowledge of what the Church teaches. And what they do know of actual Church teaching seems to be a vague and dim remnant of what they learned as very young children.

In other words, they are attempting to train others in the faith having not been trained themselves. The uncatechized catechizing the uncatechized. It’s not a good situation and I know our bishop must have his hands full. I’m praying for him and for all other bishops in his situation, and for all those who are drawn to the Church, and for all those who have already dropped out of classes based on errors they were taught. I’m certainly glad I’ve been able to intercept a number of these myself, both erroneous teachings and scandalized inquirers. It is a serious problem.

 

[kimbaichan]

I’m glad it was helpful to you, Disciple96. I was very intrested in the comments participants had sent back. Some of the reasons for leaving the RCIA program were sad, though.