Thomas Jefferson Statue Torn Down at Portland High School

  • Thread starter Thread starter gam197
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Regular_Atheist said:
I wouldn’t bother telling this to JonNC, but surely you’re aware that “fascist communism” isn’t a thing?
Click to expand...
They are two things that stand for the same thing. To the Tens of millions of civilians who have died at the hands of fascism and communism, or have lost their individual rights under their iron fists, do you think they cared if it was a hammer and sickle or a swastika?
Regular_Atheist said:
Most of the people tearing these statues down are probably more “Progressives” who vote for the Democratic Party than they are communists.
Click to expand...
Democratic Party of a couple of decades ago would have been vocal against this. Where are the liberals? You’re right. The people doing this are progressives, not far removed from the other two groups.
 
Last edited:
Balto1 said:
He wasn’t that bad, didn’t own and rape as many human beings as other slave owners.
Click to expand...
All human beings are flawed and a product of their time. No one honors Jefferson because he owned slaves. We honor him because he wrote the most magnificent document of individual rights and liberty ever penned by a human being, even if he didn’t always live up to those tenants in his personal life.
Balto1 said:
No, just when the bad ones are gone.
Click to expand...
Margaret Sanger? FDR? Che? Lenin?
MLK JR ? Who isn’t a “bad one”?
Balto1 said:
  • Abraham Lincoln
Click to expand...
Meanwhile, he sent tens of thousands of mostly white men To their deaths In a war to end slavery, and signed the Emancipation Proclamation.
 
Last edited:
Anyone concerned over statues being taken down should probably be more concerned by the armed right wingers willing to shoot to protect statues, as we saw yesterday in Albuquerque.
 
Don’t really see the idiocy in tearing down racist monuments myself.
 
If one statue can be taken down by mob rule, then expect others, including the ones you like, to be taken down by mob rule.

I’m not arguing for all statues to remain, rather saying a governing body needs to take them down…not a mob.
 
Last edited:
Thbolt said:
I’m sure Sally Hemings had full power to refuse Jefferson’s sexual advancements.
Click to expand...
That would be an idiotic assertion that no one would make, anymore than if someone asserted that Americans of Japanese origin had full power to refuse FDR’s internment.

I have heard no one, not a single person, defend Jefferson’s slave ownership or his treatment of those slaves.
Again, the Jefferson Memorial is there because of the very good things he did.

The FDR monument is not there because of the fact that he was a bigot who violated the rights of thousands of Americans because of their race and ethnicity. It is there because of the things he did that people view as valuable to the nation.
 
Last edited:
JonNC said:
Thbolt:
I’m sure Sally Hemings had full power to refuse Jefferson’s sexual advancements.
Click to expand...
That would be an idiotic assertion that no one would make, anymore than if someone asserted that Americans of Japanese origin had full power to refuse FDR’s internment.

I have heard no one, not a single person, defend Jefferson’s slave ownership or his treatment of those slaves.
Again, the Jefferson Memorial is there because of the very good things he did.

The FDR monument is not there because of the fact that he was a bigot who violated the rights of thousands of Americans because of their race and ethnicity. It is there because of the things he did that people view as valuable to the nation.
Click to expand...
I would have trouble coming up with anybody honored by a statue who someone would not find offensive in some way.

Here is the real issue: one one group utilizes veto power (by force or mob rule) to tear down a statue, and nobody stops it, how can anyone complain when a statue of their liking is taken down or defaced?
 
I only saw that mentioned on a Brietbart article, and it was only a bit of a graffiti. I doubt there’s any popular movement to tear down monuments of figures like him.
 
Last edited:
Thbolt said:
Yes, it would be better to go through the elected officials of the community to make such a decision. Personally, I have always found the fascination of Confederate soldiers and Generals as some sort of leaders worth emulating as bizarre, so I do get where the protesters are coming from though.
Click to expand...
I don’t get the fascination either. I get the outrage…but…bad things happen when people take things into their own hands.
 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

What does the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier of the American Revolution have to do with genocide?

I am guessing because it was related to America’s founding and that is why it is in Philadelphia.
 
Last edited:
Balto1 said:
Don’t really see the idiocy in tearing down racist monuments myself.
Click to expand...
aI am ALL FOR the removal of Confederat statues and monuments. Take them all down and put them in a museum somewhere or destroy them- I really don’t care.

I think I can even be convinced to remove Thomas Jefferson.

I’ve got to say I’m confused by defacing of an abolitionist and the defacing of the black Civil War regiment statue in Boston. And why take down Lincoln?

I really suspect these kids simply don’t know the history of these figures.
 
Whether these kids know the history of these figures or not, they have no right vandalizing pubic property. They can feel as they feel, but they still have to be respectful.
 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Shaws monument was defaced. He was the commander of MA 54th regiment, a black regiment during the civil war.

Here is the second monument located on Boston Common witn Shaw on horseback.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Last edited:
“I will say then, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters of the negroes, or jurors, or qualifying them to hold office, of having them to marry with white people. I will say in addition, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races, which I suppose, will forever forbid the two races living together upon terms of social and political equality, and inasmuch, as they cannot so live, that while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, that I as much as any other man am in favor of the superior position being assigned to the white man.” - Abraham Lincoln

Lincoln did initially hold that position. He had a change of heart. The Civil War changed him. John Wilkes Booth went after him because he had begun considering that blacks might one day be able to vote, and he said so publicly.

This was mentioned in Bill O’Reilly’s book on Abraham Lincoln. Booth was a strict segregationist and a staunch racist who resented the fact that the slaves had been freed by Lincoln.
 
I would rather nobody gets shot, but that only happens when the police do their jobs. Otherwise local militias will fill the power vacuum.
 
Wasn’t Karl Marx, the father of Communism, from Germany, a western country?

The countries of Asia and Africa did not give birth to these concepts, concepts which were conceived out of the Enlightenment in Europe.
 
Last edited:
Sarcelle said:
Wasn’t Karl Marx, the father of Communism, from Germany, a western country?

The countries of Asia and Africa did not give birth to these concepts, concepts which were conceived out of the Enlightenment in Europe.
Click to expand...
What point are you making? Is it that because nations such as Asia and Africa did not produce him and his thought pattern, they are not responsible for following his works and espousing them.
He has many statues in China, Turkey, India, Czeck Republic, none which have been vandalized. Even the one in the cementary in London is fine. A new one was unveiled in Germany in 2018.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Last edited:
My point is, communism is as much a product of Western society as capitalism.

You can find proponents of both all over the world and not just in non-Western countries, but it does not change the fact that Marxism arose in Germany, which, last time I checked, is a Western country.

Marxism and by extension, Communism was invented in Europe and then spread all over the world. They are both Western inventions.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top