Thomas Jefferson Statue Torn Down at Portland High School

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Sarcelle said:
My point is, communism is as much a product of Western society as capitalism.

You can find proponents of both all over the world and not just in non-Western countries, but it does not change the fact that Marxism arose in Germany, which, last time I checked, is a Western country.

Marxism and by extension, Communism was invented in Europe and then spread all over the world. They are both Western inventions.
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Western society is deeply entwined with Christianity. From that we have capitaliism and you are correct in that the enlightment brought us Marx and communism.

That does not make every other nation less accountible. They are just as accountable. It does not let Africa or Asia off the hook. China and Russia chose communism, many died.

In London, statue of Saint Boniface was defaced. I think the destroyers of statues see Christianity as a piece of this., no doubt(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Pagan Justice?
 
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It can’t all be pinned on parents, the learning institutions of many western nations are riddled with leftist claptrap!
 
Satan is alive and well, so no, God is not dead.

Note: Referencing the graffiti on the Saint Boniface statue.
 
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gam197 said:
That does not make every other nation less accountible. They are just as accountable. It does not let Africa or Asia off the hook. China and Russia chose communism, many died.
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I am not saying that Africa and Asia are off the hook. In fact, I never said that.

Africa and Asia may hold values that are opposed to Christianity but Communism is not native to those continents.
 
Sarcelle said:
I am not saying that Africa and Asia are off the hook. In fact, I never said that.

Africa and Asia may hold values that are opposed to Christianity but Communism is not native to those continents.
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What . They may not have thought of the idea but communist China certainly has embraced it.
 
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There are also tons of Chinese Christians who are faithful in spite of the massive risks.

Just being an African or Asian doesn’t automatically mean you are anti-Christian and can’t hold Christian values.

Not all Christians are white.
 
Some statues are of men who did great wrong. I won’t go into that but it does exist but for the most part, I’d let the statues stand.

Many would say leftist values are anti-Christian and I’m very concerned that Catholic and Christian statues could also be desecrated. They will try to say “all religions are equal” and things like that. “Separation of Church and State” and so on.

These vandals are using just mob rule, they are not using any kind of democratic process to do this.

No, there should not be statues say of Nathan Bedford Forest. I think he was a man that did great wrong… but I don’t think most of these statues are for people of this character.
 
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Sarcelle said:
There are also tons of Chinese Christians who are faithful in spite of the massive risks.

Just being an African or Asian doesn’t automatically mean you are anti-Christian and can’t hold Christian values.

Not all Christians are white
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This dialogue is not about who is a Christian or who isn’t.
Let’s go back to the beginning.
Sarcelle said:
Wasn’t Karl Marx, the father of Communism, from Germany, a western country?

The countries of Asia and Africa did not give birth to these concepts, concepts which were conceived out of the Enlightenment in Europe.
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How did it go from this original post and much dialogue to the idea that people from Africa and Asia can or can’t be Christians.

This thread was about statues and it was brought up that Marx came from the Western culture. So? How did it end with who is or isn’t Christian?
 
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Khmere Rouge broke statues of Buddha, so did the Taliban. We need to be careful I certainly respect the precepts of Buddhism.
 
It is a very large statue - looks to be 20-30 feet tall.

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How about Frederich Engel’s in Manchester, England?
 
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JanR said:
before Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation.
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The slaves that Jefferson freed were his kids from when he raped their mother.

This is the comment I was referring to. And I know full well about Jefferson fathering children with Sally Hemmings. I am interested in history; you seem to be interesting in distorting it or making it go away altogether.
 
gam197 said:
In Boston they want to take down Lincoln, apparently it is the way the statue is portrayed.
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No, that’s not the problem.

The problem is the leftists are dividing us. They will find ANY reason they can find to separate us from each other, because that is when we (as in the collective we, as in the AMERICAN we) are weak. The whole United We Stand, Divided We Fall thing.

None of us are perfect. From Columbus to Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln. From Dred Scott to Sojourner Truth to Ben Carson. Yet we are all Americans. Instead of studying the good and the bad of such great people, leftists would rather focus on the perceived wrongs of everyONE and everyTHING that unifies us.

Because their goal is our ruin. Many don’t understand that is the leftist goal and are simply regurgitating what they were taught in school, but that is indeed the goal of the left.
 
JanR said:
Aw, now that is REALLY shameful! The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is a sacred place. Have those people NO SHAME, AT ALL?
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Their hearts hold absolutely no love for America. Probably more accurate to say the ha!e America, but if I said that then someone on the cancel-culture train would get their delicacies bent and flag my post.
 
Boatswain2PA said:
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gam197:
In Boston they want to take down Lincoln, apparently it is the way the statue is portrayed.
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The problem is the leftists are dividing us. They will find ANY reason they can find to separate us from each other, because that is when we (as in the collective we, as in the AMERICAN we) are weak. The whole United We Stand, Divided We Fall thing.

Because their goal is our ruin. Many don’t understand that is the leftist goal and are simply regurgitating what they were taught in school, but that is indeed the goal of the left.
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I’ve suspected that for quite some time. They want to take over us all and dictate every aspect of our lives to us. It’s power, power, power, to them. That’s all they care about – absolute power. Their way, or no way.

And, we had all better wake up to that, while we still have some say in what happens to our country, our society, and ourselves.

I still hope there are enough reasonable people out there who can prevent this.
 
I thought the point of all this uprising was to reduce police brutality. Tearing down our statues and trying to alter our history and government will only lead to more boots on people’s neck, not less. These folks are definitely not the sharpest tools in the shed.
 
marybobo said:
This is the comment I was referring to. And I know full well about Jefferson fathering children with Sally Hemmings. I am interested in history; you seem to be interesting in distorting it or making it go away altogether.
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Well, at least he let them be born alive, which is more than one can say about today’s Dem party.
 
I am old enough to remember when the debate was over tearing down CSA statues and when people brought up the Founding Fathers the response was, “Don’t be silly, we just wanna take these traitors down.”

This is a culture war and we had best treat it as such instead of acting like these people are coming to us in good faith.
 
I am old enough to remember when the debate was over tearing down CSA statues and when people brought up the Founding Fathers the response was, “Don’t be silly, we just wanna take these traitors down.”
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Assuming this is broadly true, I’ve never really understood the tendency to interpret this change in cultural values to be the product of a shady clique that is only slowly unravelling its demands as to not reveal the full extent of their political programme. It’s conspiratorial. Popular sentiments can and do change.

I think a lot of the support for this movement is a product of the progressive wing of capital trying to reinvent itself. Past “evils” such as colonialism and slavery weren’t products of unenlightened individuals or personally evil individuals, but were essential to the early development of capital. “Progressives” jumping on the movement against honouring past American “evils” gives them an alibi for all of this, it allows capitalism to be separated from its past which was built on colonialism and slavery. This doesn’t mean that anyone is consciously unravelling a political agenda though.
 
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