Thomas Jefferson Statue Torn Down at Portland High School

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I wasn’t saying it was right just things were much different. A person could have been stoned for having pre-marital sex in some areas… probably still so today…
 
Not when Jefferson was alive. Today’ age of consent had no relationship to hundreds of years ago.Age of consent is s relatively new concept. Pubescent was probably an earlier marker for girls prior to 18th century. due to a shorter life span. and not they got married immediately but it was a marker that, that time was coming. I know someone is going to say well I know someone who got married at age 25 but that was not the general rule.
Near the end of the 18th century, other European nations began to enact age of consent laws. The broad context for that change was the emergence of an Enlightenment concept of childhood focused on development and growth. This notion cast children as more distinct in nature from adults than previously imagined, and as particularly vulnerable to harm in the years around puberty. The French Napoleonic code provided the legal context in 1791 when it established an age of consent of 11 years
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Again I am not agreeing or disagreeing on Sally Hemings .
 
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One of my cousins has told me of my great-great grandfather who lived in the South during the Civil War. He married my great-great grandmother when she was only 12, then went off to serve in the Confederate Army. She was still playing with dolls, and he left her in the care of the servants while he was gone. She did have a couple of babies right away, but both died because she was too young. Things were definitely different in those days.
 
Actually there was a time in history when the wife was the property of the husband. She was also the property of her father before she was married. My how things have changed…
 
They were both caucasian. No, she wasn’t a slave.

Before women’s rights were recognized and legally protected, a wife couldn’t inherit property for herself. It went to her husband, automatically. He got to dictate everything in her life, including the sexual element. I think it was sometime in the 1840s that the law changed about inheritance, and wives were allowed to inherit in their own names.

If a wife was abused, or left the marriage, she got nothing. She left with the clothes on her back, and that was it. The husband kept the children.

Nobody is advocating rape, here. We are trying to explain how things were during the times Jefferson lived. Certain things were acceptable then that would never be tolerated, today.

Dueling is another example. Among the upper crust, it was considered a perfectly acceptable means for two gentlemen to settle a score. Nobody advocates dueling, today. It’s illegal.
 
Here’s something I have learned along the way… sometimes people do things that don’t seem right, in fact other people call them wrong or sins. People are human and take advantage, make mistakes—but God takes our mistakes and turns them into blessings. I don’t know how many children Sally had with TJ, but each one of them was a blessing and each one of them would not have existed if Sally and TJ had not had relations. Each one of those children and THEIR children, and so on and so forth are God’s creation that will be able to enter ETERNAL life and in truth that is All that matters. This life is passing and it is not all there is. Eternal life lasts forever. Many children come in to the world not under the most perfect circumstances but the most important thing is that they were born-I’m talking about each individual here-because each individual is unique to a certain mother and father and without that certain mother and father, they would not exist… Thomas Jefferson live a certain life and it seems at the end of his life he was trying to make amends. God gives second chances. (and third and fourth…etc.) You can hold his mistakes against him. I bet his children and Sally’s children are glad for a chance at eternal life…
 
Still no definitive evidence that it was Thomas Jefferson himself and not any of the other Jefferson men in the area.
 
Thbolt said:
Here’s the thing: it really wasn’t okay then either. It was disgusting. The fact that some are claiming it was a different time speaks volumes to how much the sin of slavery infected this country.
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Not one person here has claimed it was okay. Not one person here has said that the times Jefferson lived in make it okay.

Actually it speaks volumes on how far the West in general and the United States Specifically has moved away from that earlier mindset about slavery. Meanwhile, slavery continues in many parts of the world today, including Africa. The “infection “ in this country has been treated and cured. That treatment was the blood of tens of thousands of mostly white Union soldiers.
 
Thbolt said:
Read the thread and there is a lot of excuse making about how it was common for the time somehow justifying it as not that big of a mark on Jefferson’s character.
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I’ve only seen reasonable understandings of the era, not excuse making. No one had made an excuse, saying such activity then or now is okay.
Thbolt said:
And I wish the treatment of the blood of Union soldiers was enough to eradicate the sin of slavery and racism, but it wasn’t.
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Yes, it was sufficient to end the sin of slavery.
Racism, on the other hand, exists in every race, in every culture, in every corner of the world where humans live. It is not now and has never been exclusively an American sin.
That doesn’t make it right. It puts it in context.
Further, I would contend that America is perhaps the least racist of multi-racial, multi-ethnic cultures. That doesn’t excuse it where it does exist. It just place it in an accurate light.
Thbolt said:
It’s still quite prominent in modern US society.
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It is not prominent ,at least as it once existed.
It is becoming more prominent in the form
Of identity politics and intersectionality.
 
Thbolt said:
Yep, there was an understanding that raping your underaged slave wasn’t that big of a deal back in those days in the South.
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That “understanding” was not universal in those days, and now it is universally condemned.
Thbolt said:
It ended slavery as it was, but a new slavery started (Jim Crow) that really last until the 1960s and now we have a racism where the entire black community does not trust the police because of uneven law enforcement in the community. The sin of slavery still lives among us in the US.
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That is a Mis-characterIzation of slavery, of course, but there was indeed no excuse for the Democrat imposed Jim Crow laws. Those laws are also gone for two generations.
I’ll wait for your poll about how all blacks do not even trust black police.
 
I would rather not have the legacy of one of the most important Founding Fathers tarnished without evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
Assuming of course that he knew of that person’s actions and was in a position to put a stop to them at the time. An assumption made with nothing to back it up.
 
Thbolt said:
Hmm, where does actual slavery begin. Under Jim Crow, the rights of ownership, free movement and equal justice under the law were taken away. I’d say it’s as close to slavery as you can have without having slave sales.
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No.
Slavery is any system in which principles of property law are applied to people, allowing individuals to own, buy and sell other individuals, as a de jure form of property.[1] An enslaved person is unable to withdraw unilaterally from such an arrangement and works without remuneration.
 
What transgressions are you okay keeping up?
 
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So what about all those statues in Italy, should they be torn down? Romans were into pedophilia. How about any portraits of Pope Pious, after all, he helped the Nazis.

Should we burn any family pictures you have in your house? I’m sure every one of your family members has had some transgression in life beyond jaywalking.
 
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