Those Were The Days

[gilliam]

**Those Were The Days… **

I walk into the darkness and hear them cry
Random voices but there’s no one around
Amid the forest, everything seems so dry
Queues upon queues, leaves lay on the ground

I kick the leaves and stumble on a stone
Rummaged through the trees with my hands and knees
Aching were my bones, but I continued alone
Quiet became the night, with a slightly cold breeze

I hear those cries yet again
Rain began to pour on the dry plain earth
Amid the soil, hands reached out in pain
Quickly I dig, Its a woman giving birth

I dig some more trying to help
Reeking was the place, reeking was the air
A hand, a leg, a mother crying for help
Queasy became my self, I reached down in despair

I felt the blood and the lifeless corpses
Rows upon rows of rotting humans
As they lay there, dead without causes
Questions I ask, where they Shia’s, Sunni’s, Kurds or Christians

Iraq was a place once ruled by the devil
Rivers he dried, money he stole
A million and more were left to shrivel
Quickly they were buried alive in a hole

It’s the mass graves everywhere you see
Running, are the spirits away from He
An unborn child couldn’t even flee
Quiet were the wombs, how else would they be….

Im sorry if this is a feeble attempt of poetry but Im just angry and pissed off at the moment.It boggles my mind when people still wander whether getting rid of Saddam was worth it. It angers me more when I hear “Human Right” activists complain about the way insurgents are being treated on TV. Give me a … break will you!!! Where were your voices when Saddam and his men took people in the middle of the night from their homes, from their beds, and tortured them??? Where were your voices when bodies were cut up and thrown infront of houses for their families to claim???Where were your voices when his sons raped and murdered girls???

Tell me where were your voices when unborn children were buried in the earth. Thousands upon thousands just disappeared. Where were your voices when the massacre of Halabcha took place, or the massacre of the March uprising in the South???

Your reports didnt save them, and now you come and say that its against human rights for those criminals to be shown on TV??? My God!!! Dont give me text book words, and talk about principles. Do these “suicide” bombers have principles by killing hundreds of innocent people inorder to get a few hundred dollars??? Are these the principles we want to teach the new Iraqi generation???

These are videos of Saddam’s men torturing people. I couldnt even continue watching, too disturbing too real. Be warned these videos are really DISTURBING and GRAPHIC. If you can watch them, watch them and then come to me and tell me that it wasnt worth it removing Saddam and his tyrant regime. Watch them and then come to me and tell me that these criminals on tv are being unjustifyingly slapped around.
http://www.benadorassociates.com/media/r9der1.ram

Read the rest from Neurotic Iraqi Wife. (warning, graphic)

 

[dumspirospero]

You always have insightful words…nice poem…I agree completely.

**Those Were The Days… **

I walk into the darkness and hear them cry
Random voices but there’s no one around
Amid the forest, everything seems so dry
Queues upon queues, leaves lay on the ground

I kick the leaves and stumble on a stone
Rummaged through the trees with my hands and knees
Aching were my bones, but I continued alone
Quiet became the night, with a slightly cold breeze

I hear those cries yet again
Rain began to pour on the dry plain earth
Amid the soil, hands reached out in pain
Quickly I dig, Its a woman giving birth

I dig some more trying to help
Reeking was the place, reeking was the air
A hand, a leg, a mother crying for help
Queasy became my self, I reached down in despair

I felt the blood and the lifeless corpses
Rows upon rows of rotting humans
As they lay there, dead without causes
Questions I ask, where they Shia’s, Sunni’s, Kurds or Christians

Iraq was a place once ruled by the devil
Rivers he dried, money he stole
A million and more were left to shrivel
Quickly they were buried alive in a hole

It’s the mass graves everywhere you see
Running, are the spirits away from He
An unborn child couldn’t even flee
Quiet were the wombs, how else would they be….

Im sorry if this is a feeble attempt of poetry but Im just angry and pissed off at the moment.It boggles my mind when people still wander whether getting rid of Saddam was worth it. It angers me more when I hear “Human Right” activists complain about the way insurgents are being treated on TV. Give me a … break will you!!! Where were your voices when Saddam and his men took people in the middle of the night from their homes, from their beds, and tortured them??? Where were your voices when bodies were cut up and thrown infront of houses for their families to claim???Where were your voices when his sons raped and murdered girls???

Tell me where were your voices when unborn children were buried in the earth. Thousands upon thousands just disappeared. Where were your voices when the massacre of Halabcha took place, or the massacre of the March uprising in the South???

Your reports didnt save them, and now you come and say that its against human rights for those criminals to be shown on TV??? My God!!! Dont give me text book words, and talk about principles. Do these “suicide” bombers have principles by killing hundreds of innocent people inorder to get a few hundred dollars??? Are these the principles we want to teach the new Iraqi generation???

These are videos of Saddam’s men torturing people. I couldnt even continue watching, too disturbing too real. Be warned these videos are really DISTURBING and GRAPHIC. If you can watch them, watch them and then come to me and tell me that it wasnt worth it removing Saddam and his tyrant regime. Watch them and then come to me and tell me that these criminals on tv are being unjustifyingly slapped around.
http://www.benadorassociates.com/media/r9der1.ram

Read the rest from Neurotic Iraqi Wife. (warning, graphic)

 

[Lisa_N]

It still amazes me, the absolute arrogance of those who would save whales or seals think saving human beings is not our problem. Or freedom is good enough for us but those middle easterners don’t deserve it or can’t handle it. The elitism of the ‘peaceniks’ never fails to amaze me.

Lisa N

 

[Richardols]

gilliam:

It angers me more when I hear “Human Right” activists complain about the way insurgents are being treated on TV. Give me a … break will you!!! Where were your voices when Saddam and his men took people in the middle of the night from their homes, from their beds, and tortured them??? Where were your voices when bodies were cut up and thrown infront of houses for their families to claim???Where were your voices when his sons raped and murdered girls???

Saddam’s atrocities are not justification for our own mistreatment of prisoners or detainees or denying them human rights. We must always hold ourselves to higher standards than those of the despots of the world.

 

[Brad]

Richardols:

Saddam’s atrocities are not justification for our own mistreatment of prisoners or detainees or denying them human rights. We must always hold ourselves to higher standards than those of the despots of the world.

I agree. But his atrocities were justification for the Iraq war, correct?

 

[Richardols]

Lisa N:

It still amazes me, the absolute arrogance of those who… think saving human beings is not our problem. Or freedom is good enough for us but those middle easterners don’t deserve it or can’t handle it.

Given the number of countries in the world with despotic rulers and whose people suffer under them, how many invasions of other countries are you willing to support, Lisa? Should we mobilize for an invasion of Iran? What of North Korea? If Bush is so set on “saving human beings,” why hasn’t he sent troops to Darfur?

And, what are the criteria for military action to save people?

 

[Richardols]

Brad:

I agree. But his atrocities were justification for the Iraq war, correct?

I don’t think so. Violation of a UN Resolution was the legal hook Bush used as justification for the invasion. I don’t recall that atrocities were part of the Resolution.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I saw the title of this thread and couldn’t get the theme from “All in the Family” out of my head.

 

[Trelow]

**Those Were The Days… **

I walk into the darkness and hear them cry
Random voices but there’s no one around
Amid the forest, everything seems so dry
Queues upon queues, leaves lay on the ground

I kick the leaves and stumble on a stone
Rummaged through the trees with my hands and knees
Aching were my bones, but I continued alone
Quiet became the night, with a slightly cold breeze

I hear those cries yet again
Rain began to pour on the dry plain earth
Amid the soil, hands reached out in pain
Quickly I dig, Its a woman giving birth

I dig some more trying to help
Reeking was the place, reeking was the air
A hand, a leg, a mother crying for help
Queasy became my self, I reached down in despair

I felt the blood and the lifeless corpses
Rows upon rows of rotting humans
As they lay there, dead without causes
Questions I ask, where they Shia’s, Sunni’s, Kurds or Christians

Iraq was a place once ruled by the devil
Rivers he dried, money he stole
A million and more were left to shrivel
Quickly they were buried alive in a hole

It’s the mass graves everywhere you see
Running, are the spirits away from He
An unborn child couldn’t even flee
Quiet were the wombs, how else would they be….

Im sorry if this is a feeble attempt of poetry but Im just angry and pissed off at the moment.It boggles my mind when people still wander whether getting rid of Saddam was worth it. It angers me more when I hear “Human Right” activists complain about the way insurgents are being treated on TV. Give me a … break will you!!! Where were your voices when Saddam and his men took people in the middle of the night from their homes, from their beds, and tortured them??? Where were your voices when bodies were cut up and thrown infront of houses for their families to claim???Where were your voices when his sons raped and murdered girls???

Tell me where were your voices when unborn children were buried in the earth. Thousands upon thousands just disappeared. Where were your voices when the massacre of Halabcha took place, or the massacre of the March uprising in the South???

Your reports didnt save them, and now you come and say that its against human rights for those criminals to be shown on TV??? My God!!! Dont give me text book words, and talk about principles. Do these “suicide” bombers have principles by killing hundreds of innocent people inorder to get a few hundred dollars??? Are these the principles we want to teach the new Iraqi generation???

These are videos of Saddam’s men torturing people. I couldnt even continue watching, too disturbing too real. Be warned these videos are really DISTURBING and GRAPHIC. If you can watch them, watch them and then come to me and tell me that it wasnt worth it removing Saddam and his tyrant regime. Watch them and then come to me and tell me that these criminals on tv are being unjustifyingly slapped around.
http://www.benadorassociates.com/media/r9der1.ram

Read the rest from Neurotic Iraqi Wife. (warning, graphic)

Amen.

 

[Trelow]

Scott_Lafrance:

I saw the title of this thread and couldn’t ge the theme from “Archie Bunker’s Place” out of my head.

Me too.

 

[Trelow]

Richardols:

I don’t think so. Violation of a UN Resolution was the legal hook Bush used as justification for the invasion. I don’t recall that atrocities were part of the Resolution.

It’s been SNAFU there forever. Who really give a poo if they were part of the resolution or not? If you arrest someone for shoplifting does that mean that they are not guilty of any other crimes they may have committed?

We understand that your a lib, that’s fine. But at least learn to accept that not everything a Republican does is the work of Satan. It makes you look stupid. Yall make idiotic arguments and then wonder why nobody listens to you anymore.

 

[Brad]

Richardols:

I don’t think so. Violation of a UN Resolution was the legal hook Bush used as justification for the invasion. I don’t recall that atrocities were part of the Resolution.

I’m not asking what was part of the Resolution. I’m asking you, as a Catholic, whether Sadaam’s atrocities justified invasion?

 

[Richardols]

Brad:

I’m not asking what was part of the Resolution. I’m asking you, as a Catholic, whether Sadaam’s atrocities justified invasion?

No, in my Catholic opinion, the atrocities did not justify the invasion.

1. The Pope opposed the war and he was certainly aware of the atrocities. If, in the face of them, he, as a Catholic, was unwilling to approve our invasion, then he didn’t consider them as justification for Bush’s action. I agree with the Pope.
2. Atrocities are present in many other countries of the world - even as we speak. Do those justify another invasion? Where do we draw the line? How many atrocities trigger sending in the Marines?

 

[Brad]

Richardols:

No, in my Catholic opinion, the atrocities did not justify the invasion.

1. The Pope opposed the war and he was certainly aware of the atrocities. If, in the face of them, he, as a Catholic, was unwilling to approve our invasion, then he didn’t consider them as justification for Bush’s action. I agree with the Pope.
2. Atrocities are present in many other countries of the world - even as we speak. Do those justify another invasion? Where do we draw the line? How many atrocities trigger sending in the Marines?

#1 is unproven. #2 has nothing to do with the question.

So, in summary, as a Catholic, you think Sadaam should still be in power to rape, kill, and torture innocent men, women, and children.

I have a different opionion, as a Catholic.

 

[Richardols]

#1 is unproven.

The Pope’s opposition to the war is a fact, not my opinion. He worked strenuously to avert the war and even his last minute effort via Cardinal Laghi was to have Bush defer to the United Nations. He certainly knew about the atrocities, yet he did not approve of the war. Even if you still think that he did not oppose the war, he certainly did not approve of it. And I agree with the Pope.

#2 has nothing to do with the question.

It certainly does. Your point is that the commission of atrocities justified the invasion. If so, my point is that the existence of similar murderous regimes mitigates against singling Saddam out.

I have a different opinion, as a Catholic.

Sure. We’re not discussing dogma. We Catholics can agree or disagree about the war.

 

[wabrams]

Trelow:

We understand that your a lib, that’s fine. But at least learn to accept that not everything a Republican does is the work of Satan. It makes you look stupid. Yall make idiotic arguments and then wonder why nobody listens to you anymore.

I’m a Republican and I don’t agree with this war in Iraq. Out of all the 3rd world hell holes in the world, why that one? How many armies in history have gone through that region and subjugated arabs for any length of time? The mongols, and that’s about it. Even the British couldn’t even hold on to Iraq and at that time they were the most modern army on the planet. WMD? Probably a lie. Human rights violations? Sure, there’s plenty. But I know that’s not the only 2 reasons why we went there. I would love to know the real reason. It’s either middle east peace (like that’ll happen), oil (or the idea of cheap oil), or just our ego’s.

 

[Richardols]

Trelow:

But at least learn to accept that not everything a Republican does is the work of Satan.

I, and every other liberal on this Forum, have never said that the Republicans are Satan’s servants or that you do the work of Satan. The opposite is not true. Jim Orr, within the last week, called the Democratic Party followers of evil, and others have called us dupes of the Devil. Sorry, we don’t demonize you fellows even as some of you demonize us.

Yall make idiotic arguments and then wonder why nobody listens to you anymore.

When you make an accusation, it would help to support it with some evidence.

 

[gilliam]

wabrams:

I’m a Republican and I don’t agree with this war in Iraq. Out of all the 3rd world hell holes in the world, why that one? How many armies in history have gone through that region and subjugated arabs for any length of time? The mongols, and that’s about it. Even the British couldn’t even hold on to Iraq and at that time they were the most modern army on the planet. WMD? Probably a lie. Human rights violations? Sure, there’s plenty. But I know that’s not the only 2 reasons why we went there. I would love to know the real reason. It’s either middle east peace (like that’ll happen), oil (or the idea of cheap oil), or just our ego’s.

We are not there to subjugate the Iraqis. It is not a goal of ours, never has been, so I don’t see the point.

WMD was not a lie, an error, possibly maybe even probably, but not an intentional lie. Catholics should know the difference.

 

[Brad]

Richardols:

The Pope’s opposition to the war is a fact, not my opinion. He worked strenuously to avert the war and even his last minute effort via Cardinal Laghi was to have Bush defer to the United Nations. He certainly knew about the atrocities, yet he did not approve of the war. Even if you still think that he did not oppose the war, he certainly did not approve of it. And I agree with the Pope.

You have no evidence to support what you claim as fact. I have long suspected this to be the case and the more time goes on, the more I believe that nobody really knows the Pope’s personal belief about whether the Iraq war was justified in foresight or hindsight. It seems he never said one way or the other. Working strenously to avert a war and deferring to the United Nations are not actions that express complete opposition to any military intervention in Iraq. All Popes should work to avoid all wars. The Pope also wanted the atrocities in Iraq to end. How does one reconcile the 2 concerns? Only the Pope knows. You cannot express as someone’s position as fact if you have no evidence of him saying his position.

Richardols:

It certainly does. Your point is that the commission of atrocities justified the invasion. If so, my point is that the existence of similar murderous regimes mitigates against singling Saddam out.

I see. This would be good policy for the NYC police. We can’t catch all the criminals so let them all go.

Richardols:

Sure. We’re not discussing dogma. We Catholics can agree or disagree about the war.

You are correct. We can differ. I’m just shocked that some Catholics would rather have Sadaam Hussein in power.

 

[gilliam]

You all know that Saddam let all the criminals go just before the war. Hundreds of thousands of them.
Iraq is still living with that legacy.

It explains a lot of what is happening over there.