Thought experiment. What if it was one day proven 200% there’s no God?

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theCardinalbird said:
Is it reasonable to inflict a greater punishment on an individual for striking the president of the United States than for striking a fellow citizen in a bar brawl?”
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All other things being the same, no it’s not.
 
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No, but that’s because the irrevocable nature of the choice follows from the nature of being a rational intellect without a physical body. It’s the various appetites of the body that are the reasons we change our minds and that the will does not set onto a choice permanently. The will comes into being with such a body, but at death those appetites disappear, leaving only a rational intellect, as with the angels. The will sets onto a choice. This isn’t an imposition placed upon it by some external force, but simply the human being continuing to behave according to what it is. They are not forced to keep their choice, it’s just the way a rational intellect and will when separated from a physical body works.
 
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Dan123 said:
All other things being the same, no it’s not.
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so your saying that assaulting a head of state will exact the same punishment as one assaulted the average Joe?
 
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Dan123 said:
I’m saying the president probably shouldn’t be involved in bar brawls.
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I’m asking someone else a question. But because you wish to answer I might as well continue.

Will hitting a head of state give you more of a severe punishment than hitting a civilian?
 
Probably, but the scenarios are almost certainly very different. I think striking a head of state would require a lot of deliberate planning whereas a random person in a bar could be spur of the moment. That’s why I said if all other things are the same I’m not sure the punishment would be that different. You’d need something similar logistically to show dedication and intent on part with getting near the president.

As an example, do you think the First Lady would get in more trouble for smacking her husband or smacking a random person in a bar? Probably the latter, though neither would look good. Might depend on the president, and the first lady.
 
Dan123 said:
Probably, but the scenarios are almost certainly very different. I think striking a head of state would require a lot of deliberate planning whereas a random person in a bar could be spur of the moment. That’s why I said if all other things are the same I’m not sure the punishment would be that different. You’d need something similar logistically to show dedication and intent on part with getting near the president.

As an example, do you think the First Lady would get in more trouble for smacking her husband or smacking a random person in a bar? Probably the latter, though neither would look good. Might depend on the president, and the first lady.
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ok. The reason I asked is because there is a higher chance of getting into way more trouble if you hit someone of high importance.

my next question:

If God is infinite in dignity and majesty, wouldn’t he have an absolute and infinite right to obedience from his reasonable creatures?”
 
wkj_123 said:
And who designed and created that set up?
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God. But saying that they are forced to keep their choice has as much weight as saying you’re forced to have no more than two arms or are forced to have the capability to laugh. That simply follows from what you are. The choice made at death to continue to will evil is done of a person’s own volition, not imposed by an external force. And the continued malice is punished proportionally.
 
wkj_123 said:
And who designed and created that set up?
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The God you say you don’t believe exists.

If you’re right, bully for you!

If you’re wrong, on the other hand, it all comes down to God’s judgment of whether it’s reasonable that you did not have belief in Him. If it’s reasonable (in Catholic terms, it’s called “invincible ignorance”), then you’re all good. If it’s unreasonable, though, that you do not believe (that is to say, if you should have but chose not to), then you’re responsible for the consequences of that decision.

Once you have made your choice – permanently, and therefore, eternally – by the end of your life, the consequences are likewise permanent and eternal. That’s why there’s no inequality between the ‘choice’ and the ‘consequences.’

And, in the metaphorical way of describing it that you rail against, you will have had made a choice whose consequence is “loss of eternal life with God.” (The ‘burning’ stuff? That’s a mode of description. The Church teaches that the primary ‘pain’ of hell is the eternal and immutable separation from God.)
 
theCardinalbird said:
ok. The reason I asked is because there is a higher chance of getting into way more trouble if you hit someone of high importance.
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Before we go to the God step perhaps we should discuss if this is how it should be? Should some be elevated about others? Is the guy in the bar getting sucker punched for no reason worthy of less respect somehow than the president? It’s okay if the answer is yes but before we move on we should probably address this.
 
Gorgias said:
If you’re right, bully for you!

If you’re wrong, on the other hand
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What if you’re both wrong? What if one day you find yourself standing before Vishnu and you’re asked why you didn’t seek truth in your life? How would you answer?
 
Dan123 said:
Before we go to the God step perhaps we should discuss if this is how it should be? Should some be elevated about others? Is the guy in the bar getting sucker punched for no reason worthy of less respect somehow than the president? It’s okay if the answer is yes but before we move on we should probably address this.
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If you mean by someone then would you agree the creator of all things and our very souls (should he exist and btw I do believe he exists) should have more of an elevated status then say me?
 
wkj_123 said:
It is literally the same as a burglar saying give me all your money or he will kill you. In your view it’s the victims fault.
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just for the record this is not how God does justice. read the article on salvation, please! God is not unfair
 
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No I said before we go down that route. So unless you think the president … or random bar dude … created souls, then no not what I meant.
 
Dan123 said:
No I said before we go down that route. So unless you think the president … or random bar dude … created souls, then no not what I meant.
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Ok true, that wasn’t a fair example. I do believe that those who carry more responsibility should have more of an elevated status than others who carry less responsibility.
 
So then your argument isn’t very good since we get multiple chances?
 
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