I find that so silly that an omnipetent God is extremely concerned if people believe he is real. Believing in an all powerful God who doesn’t physically reveal himself is litterally the most important thing in the universe. Now I wonder if there is no god, but humans wanted to create one, where they would place the most focus on? Hmmm it’s extremely convenient that God acts just like he would if he didn’t exist and he just really really needs to to believe he is there. You can see right through it.
Great you can’t choose what you believe so I should be fine then.
Bingo here is where you run into trouble. Let’s say someone misses a one hour mass and doesn’t repent, then dies and goes to hell for eternity. Now obviously the logic of that one thing which happened vs eternity of torture doesn’t make logical sense for justice. So you have to say oh well you see when you die that one choice is for eternity you can’t change it or nothing because it’s impossible. Why is it impossible? Oh because that’s how God made it. See God knew all this before any of it got started. He CHOSE to make your final choice eternal. It didn’t have to be. There is no rule book out there that God had to follow that says when a human dies after 80 years his fate is sealed. God wanted to do that so he did. Let’s all please stop pretending that humans choose these things. God created creatures with very limited understanding, and allowed them to be handicapped with original sin. I mean not only do we have very little understanding apparently, but we are actually oriented in the wrong direction through no fault of our own. He allows multiple confusing religions and then remains physically silent and judges people who don’t believe. It’s crazy. God chose all of this. We didn’t have to be born with original sin. He kept Mary from it, but chose not to let the rest of us in on that deal. God chose, God created, God is responsible. End of story.
If He is who we say He is, then what’s important to Him is that we freely choose to love Him. “Believing He’s real” is a pretty important first step in that process.
Umm… one word for you: Jesus.
If you believe that He hasn’t revealed Himself to us – in His son Jesus, and in His appearances throughout history (as recorded by eyewitnesses), then yeah… it would seem “convenient.” If, on the other hand, you accept the testimony of eyewitnesses, then there’s nothing “convenient” about it at all. Oh… except, maybe, that it’s awful convenient to ignore the evidence and then claim He doesn’t exist.
I can. Your case is pretty thin – I can see right through it!
@Sophia likes to make that claim, too. It’s a pretty weak one, I’d say. You can absolutely decide which evidence to accept and which to reject, and in doing so, you actually are choosing what you believe!
Bingo. Here’s where you run into trouble.
Right. Because accepting the consequences of our actions would be a bad thing.
No, He doesn’t. That’s what the notion of “invincible ignorance” is all about. God doesn’t just say, “ah-ha! You were born a Muslim and followed that religion all your life! I’m gonna throw you in hell for all eternity! Bwah ha ha!”
Right. You bear no responsibility for your actions. Got it.
Ah back to flogging that dead horse.
I already offered you the test, and you declined to take it. You certainly can decline to LOOK at some purported evidence - that is true. But when you consider and contemplate what you saw, that is the time when your subconscious takes over, and it will compare the suggested evidence to the already acquired amount of information, and presents your conscious with the verdict: “convincing / believable” or not. (Of course you do not believe that there is such a thing as the subconscious.)
Because there is abundant and glorious evidence of God, including (but explicitly not limited to) my own experience. There is no such evidence that dragons exist.
You, Curious11, prove to me that you have never been a dolphin. You can’t prove it? Then you must have been a dolphin.
a) “Aquinas learned a lot from Aristotle, and it influenced his own work.”
It is not illogical as you may think. It is in our nature to desire to be right, sometimes above all else. People that desire riches desire to be the richest. Good literature is a reflection of the human soul. The character of Satan in paradise lost is not so different from us. In fact, he could stand as an ideal of human independence.
Jumping in this is a good point regarding personal revelation. If Curious11 hasn’t received the same personal experiences that lead him to God that you have, could we agree he’s justified in ignoring claims of God’s existence?
It depends on what you mean by proof. Atheists claim that they have reasons to support their belief. For example, they will say that if God is all powerful, all merciful, and all good, He would prevent evils such as terrible diseases and war injuries that inflict great pain and suffering on small children.