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Xantippe
Guest
You can–just make sure it’s reputable and make sure you understand what you’re reading.
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Xantippe
Guest
100:1? Really?
Here are some major marital problems:
–unrepentant infidelity
–pedophilia
–homosexuality
–serious mental illness
–alcohol and drug abuse
–inappropriate relationships with family of origin
–gross financial mismanagement and refusal to stop financial misbehavior
–physical/emotional/financial/sexual abuse
Knowing how serious and how common those problems are, it really does not pass the sniff test to say that the ratio of reasonable to unreasonable divorces is 100:1. Also, bear in mind that not everybody is going to hang out the dirty laundry during a divorce–a lot of spouses may cover up for the other person’s bad behavior in order to protect the children.
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Annie
Guest
Another thing that affects the the divorce rate is serial divorce. So if you were to have 10 couples, and two of the couples divorced, remarried, and divorced again, that would be 4 divorces out of 12 marriages for a rate of 1/3rd, but 80% of the couples stayed together.
Weird…
Weird…
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Vonsalza
Guest
Hyperbole? Maybe?
Please, spare me.
Sure. But I’m getting a little “long in the tooth” and the overwhelming majority of divorces I’m had any contact with came down to simple pride/selfishness. Nothing else is even close.
Some gross and obvious moral violation on which some like to grandstand was, by far and away, the exception. Like pedophilia (seriously?)
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Xantippe
Guest
Don’t say 100:1 if you don’t mean 100:1. If you have a different number in mind (like 1:1 or 2:1) use that. It’s a much more defensible position and much more conducive to discussion if you say what you mean.
I know you think pedophilia is uncommon, and I wish it was as uncommon as you think it is, but it really is out there. (One of my older relatives molested at least 5 girls in my family. His wife (I don’t know if she knew about the molestation at that point) attempted to leave in the 1950s because of abuse, but her family would not help her, and there were so many children that it wasn’t feasible for her to leave without help–and there was no outside help available at that point.)
Here’s another one:
–persistent criminal offences
All of those things are uncommon but none of them are freakishly uncommon, and some of them overlap, but add up all of them, and you have quite a number of cases where divorce is a reasonable (and indeed arguably moral) choice.
I know you think pedophilia is uncommon, and I wish it was as uncommon as you think it is, but it really is out there. (One of my older relatives molested at least 5 girls in my family. His wife (I don’t know if she knew about the molestation at that point) attempted to leave in the 1950s because of abuse, but her family would not help her, and there were so many children that it wasn’t feasible for her to leave without help–and there was no outside help available at that point.)
Here’s another one:
–persistent criminal offences
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7_Sorrows
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Where did Jesus say don’t marry a divorced person?
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TEdwards
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I think our Church can meaningfully address the clergy’s role in allowing unprepared Catholics to marry, for providing inferior and nearly juvenile pre-marriage counseling AND for offering an easy slide down the annulment chute. Additionally for failing to systematically teach Catholic attributes in a marriage to high school age Catholics. And on and on. Basically things Catholics can do about their own divorce rates; we’ll never “fix” our secular only neighbors. Let’s get our own house in order.
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pnewton
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I do not doubt that the various heads of the sexual revolution dragon is the primary culprit. These have been mentioned by posters above, along with the culture of instant gratification. The one reason I have not seen, though it may be more of an effect than a cause, is the restructuring of taxes under Obama making divorce an economic advantage. Even if a couple lived together still, they could save thousands by divorcing and appearing single.
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Vonsalza
Guest
I’ll say what I want to say and it’ll stand as long as it’s conducive to the rules of the forum.
If you have difficulty detecting hyperbole then feel free to disengage from interacting with me.
As was my point. Thank you for the back-ended agreement.
Pride and selfishness are much, much more common reasons for divorce in western culture.
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DonnaNoble
Guest
I am divorced. I am the one who filed for it. But my husband is the one who left. He came out of the closet as homosexual and left me. I didn’t want to remain legally tied to him (he’s a bit reckless economically and otherwise), so I filed and therefore, while I am the plaintiff and statistics will say “I was the one who divorced him” the reality is a bit different.
I belong to a divorce support group and you would be surprised how common the situation is where the one who is the plaintiff isn’t the one who wanted to end a marriage. A lot of those who file are just the responsible person who does the paperwork (and that goes for the men in my group too. Their wives took off, but they filed). So don’t be too quick to assume the one who does the paperwork is the villain. Sometimes it can be that way, but quite a few times it isn’t.
There is too much divorce, but the whole divorce rate thing is bad statistics. They get it by looking at how many marriages happened in a given year vs. how many divorces. So for example, if 100 couples married in a year and 50 divorced, that’s a 50% divorce rate. But it that’s not 50% of the people who married. Those 50 people are from many years past. In other words, the same people getting married aren’t the same ones divorcing. It could be 20 couples from 15 years ago, 10 from 12 years ago, 20 from five years ago, etc. It’s not really apples to apples. A better way to look at it would be to look at how many people reach their anniverayr. For those married in the 1980s, 65% reached their 15th wedding anniversary. For those married in the 1990s, 70% reached their 15th. So things are getting better.
Me, I suppose I add to those statistics reluctantly. But what would those of you who would judge me have me do? Stay married to a man who left me, might go bankrupt and drag me down too? For the record, I talked to a priest when this all happened and was assured that I would not be committing a sin by filing for divorce. I later applied for an annulment too (and the marriage was annulled–I have to credit my ex, I think my he admitted that he lied to me when we married, he knew about his sexuality and needed a cover for his sexuality).
I don’t think I will ever marry again though. There is too much of a stigma, still, in the Church. So I just quietly live my life and try to tune most of the hate out.
I belong to a divorce support group and you would be surprised how common the situation is where the one who is the plaintiff isn’t the one who wanted to end a marriage. A lot of those who file are just the responsible person who does the paperwork (and that goes for the men in my group too. Their wives took off, but they filed). So don’t be too quick to assume the one who does the paperwork is the villain. Sometimes it can be that way, but quite a few times it isn’t.
There is too much divorce, but the whole divorce rate thing is bad statistics. They get it by looking at how many marriages happened in a given year vs. how many divorces. So for example, if 100 couples married in a year and 50 divorced, that’s a 50% divorce rate. But it that’s not 50% of the people who married. Those 50 people are from many years past. In other words, the same people getting married aren’t the same ones divorcing. It could be 20 couples from 15 years ago, 10 from 12 years ago, 20 from five years ago, etc. It’s not really apples to apples. A better way to look at it would be to look at how many people reach their anniverayr. For those married in the 1980s, 65% reached their 15th wedding anniversary. For those married in the 1990s, 70% reached their 15th. So things are getting better.
Me, I suppose I add to those statistics reluctantly. But what would those of you who would judge me have me do? Stay married to a man who left me, might go bankrupt and drag me down too? For the record, I talked to a priest when this all happened and was assured that I would not be committing a sin by filing for divorce. I later applied for an annulment too (and the marriage was annulled–I have to credit my ex, I think my he admitted that he lied to me when we married, he knew about his sexuality and needed a cover for his sexuality).
I don’t think I will ever marry again though. There is too much of a stigma, still, in the Church. So I just quietly live my life and try to tune most of the hate out.
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PetraG
Guest
Divorce is far more expensive than remaining married, in the long run.
The problem now is how few couples are marrying in the first place.
The problem now is how few couples are marrying in the first place.
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TEdwards
Guest
BTW, the divorce rate for U S Catholics is 28% (+/- 3 pts). More alarming is that, among religious observing ppl, divorce is “morally acceptable” to 68% of Americans and that’s up 6 pts since 2001.
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PetraG
Guest
There are many times the spouse who files would have had grounds and then some, back when grounds were required in civil court.
Canon law also allows separation with the bond remaining and civil divorce, too, when there are grounds, even when there is no case for annulment. Yes, though, there are busybodies who think they need to have verdicts on others when it is none of their business.
Canon law also allows separation with the bond remaining and civil divorce, too, when there are grounds, even when there is no case for annulment. Yes, though, there are busybodies who think they need to have verdicts on others when it is none of their business.
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CaptainPrudeman
Guest
That’s frightening. Why are so many people ignorant of church teaching?
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pianistclare
Guest
Annulments are not divorces.
I’ll never really understand why people have a thing about annulments.
People reconciling with the Church. Why is that often seen as a negative?
But I suppose that’s “off topic”
I’ll never really understand why people have a thing about annulments.
People reconciling with the Church. Why is that often seen as a negative?
But I suppose that’s “off topic”
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Vonsalza
Guest
I suspect the conflict is more disagreement than ignorance.
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CaptainPrudeman
Guest
I suspect that you’re right. It’s something that will take a long time to fix.
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pianistclare
Guest
I love this post, but the Catholic church does not hate divorced people. The sacraments are certainly open to you. And no one in the pew will know your story anyway.
God bless you. The same thing happened to my sister years and years ago, She never remarried, and sought an annulment to be rid of the pain, spiritually, She passed away last year.
God bless you. The same thing happened to my sister years and years ago, She never remarried, and sought an annulment to be rid of the pain, spiritually, She passed away last year.
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PickyPicky
Guest
No, that’s why I corrected the statement about Henry.
On the other hand they have a not-unrelated effect, which was why I asked what the numbers were like.
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TEdwards
Guest
Whether or not it’s fair, annulments are seen as “Catholic divorces” by a significant majority of Catholics. It is, after all, not just an end of a Catholic marriage, it is the fiction of saying the marriage didn’t exist.
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