Thoughts on Amazon Synod

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Thoughts: None of my business. If error is made, it will be a local and not a universal error. All error, if any, will be corrected in the fullness of time.
 
I know, it’s rough. The pretext given for this stuff is evangelization, but it does the exact opposite. It drives away those who seek to love God. Granted, Pope Francis spoke derisively recently about a woman who actually led people to the truth, so maybe that’s the goal, God forbid…
 
I assume you have never heard of a rescript; the works that permanent deacons are usually involved in are the same ones that are traditionally available to women, meaning those works that do not require priestly ordination. And by rescript, women can fulfill all the sacramental functions of a deacon, albeit, such rescripts are rare and usually occur in extreme mission territories where priests are a rare commodity. Rescripts are responses of the pope or a Sacred Congregation, in writing, to requests or petitions of individuals and are requested by a bishop of a Diocese through their Apostolic Nunciature.
 
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Too many commenters, outside South America, have fallen into the trap of assuming that the October synod is mainly about the tribal Indians still surviving, and still maintaining their traditional way of life, in remote areas of the Amazon jungle. It isn’t primarily about them at all. It’s about the much more numerous settler population of peasants who struggle to scrape a living through subsistence farming in the vast areas where the jungle has been cleared, in a slow, constant process that has been going on for over a hundred years. These are the people that the Catholic Church is losing, year by year or even Sunday by Sunday, to the Pentecostal invasion of territory that in a quite recent past was still solidly Catholic.
 
CorydonMundi said:
I wish he’d quite being so vague and just state the facts. I’ll be happy when we have more clear leadership.
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This is really the wrong attitude to have towards a Pope, corydonmundi. It’s almost an insult to the Holy Spirit in my opinion, (not that you mean to). Here is an insightful paragraph written by then Crd Ratzinger in response to Pope St JPII asking the CDF to expound onpapal infallibility for our generation.

“The Catholic Church professes that this ministry is the primatial ministry of the Roman Pontiff, Successor of Peter, and maintains humbly and firmly “that the communion of the particular Churches with the Church of Rome, and of their Bishops with the Bishop of Rome, is – in God’s plan – an essential requisite of full and visible communion”. Human errors and even serious failings can be found in the history of the papacy: Peter himself acknowledged he was a sinner. Peter, a weak man, was chosen as the rock precisely so that everyone could see that victory belongs to Christ alone and is not the result of human efforts. Down the ages the Lord has wished to put his treasure in fragile vessels: human frailty has thus become a sign of the truth of God’s promises.”

Even if I believe that we have a Pope with many failings, I can have the joy of knowing that no matter what, the office is protected and guided not by him but by the Holy Spirit through him.
 
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When Catholicism engages in things like this Amazon Synod, the less likely any union with the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox will be.
 
Weserthy said:
I also loved his line on how indigenous people and how they are unable to comprehend celibacy:
Bishop Kräutler told reporters today he estimates “two-thirds” of bishops in the Amazon support the ordination of viri probati.

“There’s no other option,” he said during the press conference a short while earlier. “Indigenous people don’t understand celibacy,” he added, and he recalled many times he would go to a village and that the first thing they asked him was: “Where is your wife?”

“I had to explain I’m not married, and they almost felt sorry for me, saying: ‘Oh poor man.’” He added that a second time that happened, he replied: “She’s far away” and was “thinking of my mother.”

“Indigenous peoples, at least those I’ve met, cannot understand this thing that man is not married,” he said.
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By and large, contemporary Americans (aside from Catholics) aren’t able to comprehend celibacy for religious ministers either.
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BartholomewB said:
Too many commenters, outside South America, have fallen into the trap of assuming that the October synod is mainly about the tribal Indians still surviving, and still maintaining their traditional way of life, in remote areas of the Amazon jungle. It isn’t primarily about them at all. It’s about the much more numerous settler population of peasants who struggle to scrape a living through subsistence farming in the vast areas where the jungle has been cleared, in a slow, constant process that has been going on for over a hundred years. These are the people that the Catholic Church is losing, year by year or even Sunday by Sunday, to the Pentecostal invasion of territory that in a quite recent past was still solidly Catholic.
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So, they used to be solidly Catholic. But we are attempting to woo them back using old tribal religious icons / costumes, etc?
They used to be solidly Catholic but now they are becoming Pentecostal? Are the Pentecostals wooing them with tribal-style ritual / costumes / iconography? Or are the Pentecostals wooing them with the basic truths of Christianity? Or perhaps the “Prosperity Gospel”? Who is the pope trying to compete with there?
https://rlp.hds.harvard.edu/faq/pentecostalism-brazil
 
Angel_Bradford said:
I assume you have never heard of a rescript
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Of course, there can’t be and won’t be a “rescript” that allows a person who is not a priest to hear confessions or celebrate Mass, which were mentioned in the post to which you responded. A layperson witnessing a wedding, yes, you can say that can be allowed by rescript.

As for women doing what deacons do, well, laypeople can theoretically be allowed to do everything a deacon does and the permission does not always have to come from the Holy See.

Dan
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
So, they used to be solidly Catholic. But we are attempting to woo them back using old tribal religious icons / costumes, etc?
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It seems I failed to make my meaning clear. To the extent that this synod is concerned with meeting the religious needs of the people living in the Amazon region, the tribal Indians still maintaining their traditional way of life in remote jungle areas are only a secondary concern. The tribal icons, costumes, and so on have to do with addressing the needs of these people, who are not the Church’s main concern in the synod. The very much greater population of settlers who have moved into the area in recent decades, following jungle clearance, and who are largely engaged in subsistence farming, are the ones the Catholic Church has been losing to the Pentecostals.
 
Yeah, I get it. So why is there so much focus on the feathered headdresses, etc?
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acanonlawyer said:
As for women doing what deacons do, well, laypeople can theoretically be allowed to do everything a deacon does and the permission does not always have to come from the Holy See.
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I’m confused by this, particularly when it comes to weddings. How would that work for lay women? And what about purifying vessels? Giving blessings?
 
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My guess it that scenes like this don’t have quite the same visual appeal:

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Strange, not a feathered headdress in sight here, but people seem to be showing up.

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My response specifically addressed lay people fulfilling duties normally associated with a deacon; nothing more.
 
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But, wait, there’s more! You also get:
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Giving blessings is something, admittedly, I didn’t consider. I’d have to look into that some more. As far as how it would work, do you mean how (by whom) it would be permitted?

Dan
 
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