Thoughts on Marian Apparitions

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Telstar said:
Believing in personal Apparitions is not required by the Church, at all. The ones that are fully approved and promoted actively in connection with the Church (like Our Lady of Fatima), can be fully believed because they have already been proven by the Church to be true. That requires a whole lot of proof. 😉
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😃

I read a skeptic’s version of Fatima before, and it did not help. 😦
 
FabiusMaximus said:
So when the apparition at Fatima says that people should be consecrated to “my Immaculate Heart” this is leading to Jesus? It doesn’t sound like it.

Too many people begin focusing on Mary. It’s not that anyone here is against Mary. But when adulation for Mary and dedication toward her supersedes that for Christ, there’s a problem. A big one.

It’s not about whether one can ‘love both Jesus and Mary.’ It’s about drawing the line between intercession/honor, and too much dedication.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t seen all this devotion toward Mary in Orthodox or high Anglican circles. Perhaps I haven’t experienced either enough, but to the extent that I have, I’ve never seen it to the extent I see it in Catholicism.
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Catholics couldn’t possibly love and honor Mary as much as God does!

She is the Daughter of the Father, the Spouse of the Holy Spirit, and the Mother of the Word Incarnate.

You (and others) don’t understand it because you don’t live it. And you (and others) don’t speak the language. You (and others) are on the outside looking in.

Perhaps one day you will.

Jim Dandy
 
Jim_Dandy said:
Catholics couldn’t possibly love and honor Mary as much as God does!

She is the Daughter of the Father, the Spouse of the Holy Spirit, and the Mother of the Word Incarnate.

You (and others) don’t understand it because you don’t live it. And you (and others) don’t speak the language. You (and others) are on the outside looking in.

Perhaps one day you will.

Jim Dandy
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:cool:
 
I’m not a firm believer that all these apparitions are Mary. I’m still not convinced. First off, testing of the spirits, at least by professed Catholics who have seen these visions, never seems to enter there mind right when it happens. It has to be decided on by some type of Catholic counsel after the fact. What would be cool, is when questioned after the fact, the person who saw the apparition would say, “I immediately tested the spirit using Saint John’s guidelines found in 1 John: 4”. “The apparition that appeared to be the Holy Mother, confessed that Jesus Christ did come in the flesh and proceeded with this message to me”. I mean, really how much debating by counsel would have to be conducted after that? I still don’t understand why this never happens when Catholics see these visions. We are required to be skeptical, as directed by Saint John, yet we as Catholics never seem to do this when we see see the Holy Mother. Also, I don’t know what our Holy Mother looks like anyway. Has anyone seen her when she walked among us? Off course not. I get the whole, “Well did the apparition say anything contradictory to Catholic Doctrine or what our Holy Inspired instruction manual from God dictates”?
You really have to look at it from a "At war/win at all cost" mindset the devil has. If I want to really get at my enemy (in this case the Holy Catholic church and the chosen people of Christ), I need to hit them with something I know will get there defenses down. The Virgin Mary is a vision I would use to get at Catholics. The devil and his minion of demons are liars. What other message has to be received regarding salvation of humankind? God, has answered all our questions thru the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for our sins.
 
Also, why are we seeking other Devine proof of God’s truth? We know his plan. He has revealed it to us. What more do we need? Divination for further proof is not required and God says it is an abomination. Remember that whole guideline book of the Holy Bible God made for the Jews, which applies, in certain aspects to us as Gentiles? Consulting of mediums and spiritual divination/communication with spirits and the dead is a “Big NO NO”.

Take Care and May God bless.

Ed
 
Mary comes in times during crisis of faith.

Also, while northern Europe was falling to fragmentation of faith, the New World was beginning a new in life.

Mary of Guadalupe is a most fascinating event!!!
 
Tyuiop411 said:
I’ve asked about Marian apparitions on a predominately Evangelical forum, and the most common answers I got was “it’s demonic” and “Rebuke it in the name of Jesus!”

In fact they said the same thing about St. Faustina’s Jesus visions/apparitions.
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Funny and scary at the same time…
 
followingtheway said:
Funny and scary at the same time…
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That wasn’t even the worse part. I asked what they would do if the spirit didn’t leave when they rebuked it, and the almost unanimous answer was “Rebuke it again”. I think they would just sit there and rebuke it all day long.
One caveat, however: I would say that a good majority of Marian devotion in the East is centered on the Incarnation more than anything else.
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Similarly, the vast majority of Marian devotion in the West is the Rosary. Which is itself centered on the life of Christ.
 
theres a statue that travelsthe world called the pilgrim statue, or something, of Mary, its from Portugal i think, i got to see it when it came to RI on tour (lol) it said on a big sign, do not touch her or she will touch you. …I believe that…so i didnt touch it. ive felt Mary’s power before, on my knees learning to pray the rosary.
 
Jim_Dandy said:
The Bayside condemnation was done in consultation with the Doctrine of the Faith:

ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/MUGABAY.TXT

QUOTE:
2. The “messages” and other related propaganda contain statements which,
among other things, are contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church,
undermine the legitimate authority of bishops and councils and instill
doubts in the minds of the faithful, for example, by claiming that, for
years, an “imposter (sic) Pope” governed the Catholic Church in place of
Paul VI. END QUOTE (color added)

Do you and many “priests, nuns, and other clergy” believe this?

I’ve been to Fatima (Portugal), Guadalupe (Mexico), and Lourdes (France). These have been investigated by the Church and found worthy of belief. Ample evidence exists for these apparitions.

I’ve been to Medjugorje (Croatia) and await the decision of the Church. It also has been condemned by the local bishop.

Jim Dandy
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I realize what the Bishop of Brooklyn has said about it. I also admit, that is one thing in the messages that has always bothered me. There is a remote possibility that it could be true, but there is no real way to prove it, one way or the other. That’s why I’m still on the fence about that particular part of it. But, I never heard or saw anything else there that I believe was truly inconsistent with Church teaching, and I’m a real stickler about that kind of stuff, now.

I also had some very unusual experiences there that I could only classify as being miraculous, so I know that there was a lot of good going on there. Some of them were of a strictly spiritual nature (my own conversion, some strange visual phenomena, among other things), but there were some others, like seeing rosaries that had turned into gold while praying the rosary there (the links were later verified to be solid gold, by a reputable jeweler, while the beads themselves remained plain old, cheap plastic), that I could not explain away with any amount of logic (even though I seriously tried… lol). I’ve seen several examples of that type of thing over the years. They just don’t make logical sense in a practical way. 🤷

At the time of my first visit, I was a huge skeptic. I had originally gone with my SIL that was always bugging me to go with her, just so I could debunk it. I didn’t want to believe any of it was real. (I was in my “atheistic/agnostic phase” at that point in time.) I just wanted to prove it was a total fantasy. I ended up changing my view shortly after that first visit, due to another related incident that happened to me, personally. So, I still have the inkling to believe that it is/was authentic. Don’t get me wrong, I also saw some people there that were way too eager to call some things ‘miraculous’ when they were clearly not, or were at least highly questionable. I’m still too much of a ‘doubting Thomas’ to give some of them the benefit of the doubt.

But in the end, this is all still JMHO, based on my own experiences. I can fully understand why many people are very skeptical about it. 😉
 
Are you sure disturbing is the correct word here? Or is simply beyond “your” scope of belief?

Islam finds “your” beliefs “disturbing”. Are they correct? Or is it just “beyond” their scope of belief?

I find it disturbing one should jump to that conclusion when in fact you don’t know this Soul at all.
 
This would be akin to not believing the Angel Gabriel appeared to Mary because it might place too much emphasis on the Angel rather than the birth of Christ.
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In her apparitions, Mary always points to her Son, not to herself.
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I’ve seen no devotions to Gabriel on the scale of Mary. Certainly no one talks about “the power of Gabriel” and being “overwhelmed by his presence to kneel and pray” as some here have described with Mary. Exaggerations those, maybe?
One caveat, however: I would say that a good majority of Marian devotion in the East is centered on the Incarnation more than anything else.
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I’ve been to a few Divine Liturgies (beautiful, just like the Tridentine Mass), and I’ve never heard devotion to Mary on the scale of some Catholics. Not that the Mass does anything like that, I would clarify, but I’m just uncomfortable with the excessive nature of Catholic devotion to Mary. If the Church would come out and say to tone it down, then I wouldn’t be as uncomfortable because I’d understand it wasn’t approved. But it often seems like that it is.
Catholics couldn’t possibly love and honor Mary as much as God does!
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She is the Daughter of the Father, the Spouse of the Holy Spirit, and the Mother of the Word Incarnate.
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You (and others) don’t understand it because you don’t live it. And you (and others) don’t speak the language. You (and others) are on the outside looking in.
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Perhaps one day you will.
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Please explain it for my young, foolish ears then (not sarcasm, just to clarify).
 
John’s Apocalpyse Chapter 12 prophesies: “A great sign appeared in the heavens; a woman clothed with the Sun…” It speaks of her and her divine Child’s persecution; and the persecution of her “other children.” This is B-I-B-L-E. It is the fulfillment of God’s cursing Lucifer and his minions with the Woman & Seed in Genesis 3:15, the so-called Proto-Evangelium or “pre-Gospel.”

There are preternatural “miracles” and supernatural miracles. Preternatural miracles are prophesied. To such persons who availed themselves of forces in the (fallen) angelic realm, Christ said, “Depart from Me. I never knew you.” The Church approves or disapproves Marian apparitions. Fatima, for example, is an explicit fulfillment of John’s Apocalpyse 12. There the Virgin Mary warned us of Russia, also given in Daniel as a source of demonic influence in the world. B-I-B-L-E. Let’s not indulge in condemning caricatures of each other’s beliefs. Reminds me of Pastor Love, who preached hatred for Catholics but could never defend it from the B-I-B-L-E. He’s in the slammer now for murdering his mistress’ husband. Love God. Obey His B-I-B-L-E. Are there pop cultural excesses? Yep. That doesn’t change the B-I-B-L-E.

Sing along. “The B-I-B-L-E. Yes, that’s the book for me…”

Lord, you prophesied Great Apostasy, and Great Tribulation. Keep us faithful and true, imparting to us the patience needed to wholly forgive; and grant us Your every blessing of mercy and grace in helping us fulfill Your command to love You with our entire beings; and our neighbors as ourselves. Thanks, Creator. We can do this with Your indwelling. Enlighten the eyes of our hearts especially as regards Your Holy Bible. AMEN
 
That sign smacks of superstittion. Mary has absolutely no power of her own and all her actions are only with the permission of God. She is the most holy of women created by God but she still remains a created being subservient to the one God ultimately. You felt God’s power whilst learning to pray or perhaps it might be better to say Mary by God’s grace may have imparted a message to you. Although that is of course private revelation.
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It’s the International Pilgrim Virgin Statue of Our Lady of Fatima:

pilgrimvirginstatue.com/

It is“Please do not touch her, she will touch you.”

regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?se=360&ca=234&te=782&id=29238

There is nothing superstitious about that. Number one, it’s an old statue so I’m sure they want to preserve it. Number two, as far as her “touching you”, it’s like someone who touches your heart. You wouldn’t think it was superstitious if someone affected you in that way, would you? Some people Our Lady affects, others she doesn’t. 🤷

I pray she will affect everybody someday.

She brought me back to the church, so yes, she “touched” me.🙂

Pax†
 
What a wonderful feeling. 🙂

God Bless you.

Hey, who’s the super hero?
 
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