Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill

[pnewton]

So you want to interpolate 10 bad - according to you, but maybe not to the principals who hired them - teachers against all the teachers in the public schools, but then admit that yours is only an anecdote statistically invalid.

It is anecdotal, but the fact that 40% of the teachers played sick is telling. That is a large minority that was willing to trade integrity for a protest.

 

[estesbob]

So that’s what it is about all teachers? I ought to complain to my wife about how lazy she was when she worked until only 9 p.m. on weekdays, about how she often had to provide supplies to poor children out of her own pocket (not unique to her - a lot of techers did the same), how she took sick days only when what she had could have been spread to her pupils.

You know it all, Bob.

My mother taught for 40 years. My brother is in his 35th year of teaching… Neither of them joined the NEA as they believed their priorities were the students-not a union.

Of course that is just anecdotal evidence, as are your comments about your wife. But we’re talking about here is teachers who thought so little of their students they lied to their employer and went to Madison to protest being asked to help the state address its budget deficit. I know there is no conceivable way either my brother or mother would have done with these teachers are doing. I suspect your wife would not either. I am surprised as the husband of a dedicated teacher that you support what these teachers are doing.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

My mother taught for 40 years. My brother is in his 35th year of teaching… Neither of them joined the NEA as they believed their priorities were the students-not a union.

“Let’s be honest here-concern for students is far down the list of concerns for teachers unions:”

My wife was a member of the UFT, and proud of it. You may dump on her and her union, but neither she nor the union subordinated the interests of the children to hers or theirs.

 

[ishii]

Wisdom from a non- Republican, Joe Klein:

*An election was held in Wisconsin last November. The Republicans won. In a democracy, there are consequences to elections and no one, not even the public employees unions, are exempt from that. There are no guarantees that labor contracts, including contracts governing the most basic rights of unions, can’t be renegotiated, or terminated for that matter. We hold elections to decide those basic parameters. And it seems to me that Governor Scott Walker’s basic requests are modest ones–asking public employees to contribute more to their pension and health care plans, though still far less than most private sector employees do. He is also trying to limit the unions’ abilities to negotiate work rules–and this is crucial when it comes to the more efficient operation of government in a difficult time.*Read more: swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/18/wisconsin-the-hemlock-revolution/#ixzz1EWUUasRU

Ishii

 

[kwitz]

So you want to interpolate 10 bad - according to you, but maybe not to the principals who hired them - teachers against all the teachers in the public schools, but then admit that yours is only an anecdote statistically invalid.

It’s enough of a sample size that if our current principal hired a retired public school teacher, I would be livid. And absolutely I’m equally frustrated with the previous principals who hired them.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

It’s enough of a sample size that if our current principal hired a retired public school teacher, I would be livid. And absolutely I’m equally frustrated with the previous principals who hired them.

If that’s a meaningful sample size to you, I’d suggest that you dust off your Statistics textbook and re-read it.

 

[estesbob]

My wife was a member of the UFT, and proud of it. You may dump on her and her union, but neither she nor the union subordinated the interests of the children to hers or theirs.

But the teachers in Wisconsin(which is the topic of this thread) are subordinating the interests of the children to theirs. I don’t recall anybody dumping on the UFT or your wife. Again if you believe that teachers should put the interests of their students
before themselves why are you supporting these teachers in Wisconsin?

 

[estesbob]

Wisdom from a non- Republican, Joe Klein:

*An election was held in Wisconsin last November. The Republicans won. In a democracy, there are consequences to elections and no one, not even the public employees unions, are exempt from that. There are no guarantees that labor contracts, including contracts governing the most basic rights of unions, can’t be renegotiated, or terminated for that matter. We hold elections to decide those basic parameters. And it seems to me that Governor Scott Walker’s basic requests are modest ones–asking public employees to contribute more to their pension and health care plans, though still far less than most private sector employees do. He is also trying to limit the unions’ abilities to negotiate work rules–and this is crucial when it comes to the more efficient operation of government in a difficult time.*Read more: swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/18/wisconsin-the-hemlock-revolution/#ixzz1EWUUasRU

Ishii

Before the election the teachers union ran ads attacking Walker saying that if he was elected he was going to end collective bargaining for benefits and ask teachers to contribute towards their pension and healthcare. The voters Wisconsin knew going in exactly what he was going to do and now he is doing it. To cave into the teachers union now would be a betrayal of promises he made to the people of Wisconsin when they voted for him.

 

[ishii]

Before the election the teachers union ran ads attacking Walker saying that if he was elected he was going to end collective bargaining for benefits and ask teachers to contribute towards their pension and healthcare. The voters Wisconsin knew going in exactly what he was going to do and now he is doing it. To cave into the teachers union now would be a betrayal of promises he made to the people of Wisconsin when they voted for him.

Yes and that is why all of these protests are about anything but “the people” and democracy but rather an entrenched special interest (essentially an arm of the Democrat party) fighting to keep the gravy train going.

Ishii

 

[K-McD]

Before the election the teachers union ran ads attacking Walker saying that if he was elected he was going to end collective bargaining for benefits and ask teachers to contribute towards their pension and healthcare. The voters Wisconsin knew going in exactly what he was going to do and now he is doing it. To cave into the teachers union now would be a betrayal of promises he made to the people of Wisconsin when they voted for him.

Yeah, imagin that. Doing what you promised to do. The crime of it.

Save the country and fire all of them, public unions.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Wow. The anger. The hatred. The rage. The loathing being directed towards public employees. I feel like I need to take a bath after reading such vitriolic hatred.

I wonder what Christ thinks about such bile and hatred being expressed by those supporting the governor and his desire to write and pass a law impairing the obligations of contracts.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Wow. The anger. The hatred. The rage. The loathing being directed towards public employees. I feel like I need to take a bath after reading such vitriolic hatred.

You should write union ads for a living. You have a flair for the dramatic!

 

[K-McD]

Wow. The anger. The hatred. The rage. The loathing being directed towards public employees. I feel like I need to take a bath after reading such vitriolic hatred.

I wonder what Christ thinks about such bile and hatred being expressed by those supporting the governor and his desire to write and pass a law impairing the obligations of contracts.

And you support all the “bile and hatred” being expressed by those supporting the corrupt unions? I think you need to reflect on what your messiah says about civility.

 

[estesbob]

You should write union ads for a living. You have a flair for the dramatic!

Best to ignore attempts to derail the thread.

 

[pnewton]

Wow. The anger. The hatred. The rage. The loathing being directed towards public employees. I feel like I need to take a bath after reading such vitriolic hatred. .

If you think posts are uncharitable you could report them. Otherwise, I would question whether it is Christlike to ascribe hate for those whose opinions differ from yours. Your rhetoric is strong. No one has expressed stronger emotions than this post of yours. Pot, kettle and all.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Wow. The anger. The hatred. The rage. The loathing being directed towards public employees. I feel like I need to take a bath after reading such vitriolic hatred.

I wonder what Christ thinks about such bile and hatred being expressed by those supporting the governor and his desire to write and pass a law impairing the obligations of contracts.

Dunno, probably the same thing about your views of republicans and Protestants.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Dunno, probably the same thing about your views of republicans and Protestants.

Except, I don’t direct my ire towards the people (I don’t wish bad things on anyone. That people are actually willingly act against their own best interest makes me sad for them and angry at those who provoke them to do so for their own self-interest.), I direct it towards the ideology and those who promulgate it. Admittedly, I sometimes get my pronouns mixed up.

 

[a_priori]

Heck, I’d just give them a month before they run out of the classrooms screaming for Mama.

Just for clarity, can you define “them”? Thanks.

 

[JackQ]

Interjecting race was changing the substance of the debate. But hey, it’s not like that’s not played all the time, even when it is off topic. There is nothing artificial about the difference between public employees and private. Some sectors of work are critical. Shut down the airlines or the auto industry, it is inconvenient. Shut down the police or fire, people die. Nothing artificial about that.

There was no interjection of race in the discussion, and you know it. The purpose of the Judge Roy Bean quote was clear enough at the time I made it, and I subsequently explained it. I wonder why you want to throw such a red herring into the discussion?

Moreover, the second part of your argument shows that you know exactly what I meant. Public Safety personnel are not properly a part of this discussion, because no one in Wisconsin is proposing taking away their collective bargaining rights. The fact that public safety personnel do have collective bargaining rights in Wisconsin and throughout the country highlights the fallacy in your argument. Collective bargaining and going on strike are not the same thing. You are equivocating between the two.

 

[JackQ]

There are no unions in the Vatican. The employees of the diocese of Madison do not belong to a union. Should Catholics be protesting the Church demanding that the employees of the Church be allowed collective-bargaining rights and demanding that employees of the Catholic Church not be required to pay any of their health insurance costs or make any contributions to their pension plan?

Should any employees anywhere determine that they need to unionize and collectively bargain, then yes, even if that’s the Vatican. We’re talking lay, non-religious employees, of course.