Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill

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The demise of US Steel was pointed out earlier as a union created fiasco. It certainly had long lasting effects.

Census: Near-record level of US counties dying

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110222/ap_on_re_us/us_census_dying_counties

“After U.S. Steel sold the last of its mining operations by 2003, folks in southern West Virginia began counting on new highway projects to prop up the long-struggling area.”
 
The demise of US Steel was pointed out earlier as a union created fiasco. It certainly had long lasting effects.

Census: Near-record level of US counties dying

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110222/ap_on_re_us/us_census_dying_counties

“After U.S. Steel sold the last of its mining operations by 2003, folks in southern West Virginia began counting on new highway projects to prop up the long-struggling area.”
That’s a sad story, and a great moral. Govenment (whatever that means) can not “prop up”. Economic realities can be postponed, managed or spread out, but they can not be made to disappear.

My home county grew 28% in the last ten years, BTW. Texas on the whole had an 18% increase
 
The demise of US Steel was pointed out earlier as a union created fiasco. It certainly had long lasting effects.

Census: Near-record level of US counties dying

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110222/ap_on_re_us/us_census_dying_counties

“After U.S. Steel sold the last of its mining operations by 2003, folks in southern West Virginia began counting on new highway projects to prop up the long-struggling area.”
This is a very simplistic and misleading answer. Just because it was “pointed out” doesn’t make it any truer the first or second time it’s repeated. I could go into a whole litany of reasons why U.S. Steel and Bethlehem Steel largely disappeared in this country that have absolutely nothing to do with the unions.

ChadS
 
Lol

Yea, damn communism has nearly overrun my area. I dunno how I’ve lived without unions all my life.
Do you think, that millions of Russian peasants, turned commie over night, for no other reason than they thought Lenin was a cool guy? Who knows if France had unions back in the day, there would have been no revolution. Napoleon once said. “Religion stops the poor from killing the rich” It might be he should have said “unions stop the poor from killing the rich”
 
I know the teachers are the most vocal, but I though all public workers were being affected. Is this not so?
Police, firefighter, and state trooper unions have been exempted; all of which happened to have endorsed Walker’s candidacy.
 
This is a very simplistic and misleading answer. Just because it was “pointed out” doesn’t make it any truer the first or second time it’s repeated. I could go into a whole litany of reasons why U.S. Steel and Bethlehem Steel largely disappeared in this country that have absolutely nothing to do with the unions.
It is hardly coincidental that what started out as the heavy manufacturing center of the country has now become the Rust Belt or that new manufacturing is springing up in those - other - parts of the country with Right to Work laws where costs cannot be driven up by unions.

Ender
 
Do you think, that millions of Russian peasants, turned commie over night, for no other reason than they thought Lenin was a cool guy?
Who knows if France had unions back in the day, there would have been no revolution. Napoleon once said. “Religion stops the poor from killing the rich” It might be he should have said "unions stop the poor from killing the rich"
That just puts me one step closer to believing that many modern day American union workers are just jealous and greedy.
Arbeit macht frei
?

Big Government and big unions have enslaved and brainwashed a bunch of people it seems like to me.
 
Police, firefighter, and state trooper unions have been exempted; all of which happened to have endorsed Walker’s candidacy.
According to the Gov., if I heard correctly, there are quite a few unions that represent those groups, and he only got a few of them. 🤷
 
This is a very simplistic and misleading answer. Just because it was “pointed out” doesn’t make it any truer the first or second time it’s repeated. I could go into a whole litany of reasons why U.S. Steel and Bethlehem Steel largely disappeared in this country that have absolutely nothing to do with the unions.

ChadS
We have east jordan iron works down here were a few of my friends work. We also make tires, trailers, all kinds of things down here. There was rumor that a motor manufacturer was looking at this area, but I haven’t heard from it in awhile. Add to that, we have several distribution centers in this area as well. Dunno why the jobs keep coming in 🤷, we are under 5% unemployment I believe. I’ve met folks from Louisiana and California who have moved here for work as well.

I know many big oil companies try to avoid the steel Chinese made pumping units because they tend to crater a lot easier than the American made ones. We have leases with American made pumping units on them twice as old as me.
 
It is hardly coincidental that what started out as the heavy manufacturing center of the country has now become the Rust Belt or that new manufacturing is springing up in those - other - parts of the country with Right to Work laws where costs cannot be driven up by unions.

Ender
Of course it’s not coincidental, if all the steel manufacturing centers were located in the northeast and the steel industry in this country collapsed then of course the area hardest hit would be the northeast. It doesn’t take an engineer to figure that out. As I said before, there are more reasons for why heavy industry in this country collapsed other than just playing blame the union record over and over and over.

ChadS
 
As I said before, there are more reasons for why heavy industry in this country collapsed other than just playing blame the union record over and over and over.

ChadS
Why did “heavy industry” collapse?
 
I can’t provide a link to this quote but Neil Cavuto made this comment on his show today, February 22. I replayed it a dozen times so I could quote it here exactly as he said it. Before God and the Angels, this is his quote:

“Even if Wisconsin’s governor gets everything he wants from them, public workers there will still end up paying a third of what private sector workers fork over for their health care benefits and less then a quarter of what the average worker pays for her pension benefits.”

The notion that they are being mistreated over this is just insane.
 
This issue about union busting, plain and simple. And the teachers in Wisconsin are not buying it. The union has agreed to 2 of 3 concessions and were flat out refused.

My DH and I are employed by DoD. My husband is a wage grade worker, a union steward and has bargaining rights. I am a GS worker, I do not. For the first three years of my employment, I was “career conditional”, I could be terminated within 3 yrs for poor performance. There is a myth going around that the average government worker makes $120,000.00 a year. And people get riled up. Let me enlighten you as to WHO makes that much money and WHERE they live.

SES government workers living in DC make that and more. The GS worker, myself is no where near that amount. Why? Location, location and GRADE. Government workers salaries by grade are posted on the OPM website. You can find GS and WG wages there as well. It also depends on WHERE you live and WHERE you work.

My DH and I do “pay” into health insurance and our wages have been frozen for the next two years while our health insurance premiums have risen 7.2%. My DH is in a different retirement plan (CSRS) and I am in FERS. I “contribute” to my retirement plan as do workers in the private sector. Did I mention that my husband cannot strike?

If Wisconsin loses their bargaining rights, you will see overcrowded classrooms, high turn over of teachers and the quality of education will decline.

I have read posts regarding the swarming of industry to the south where bargaining rights are few, far between or non-existant. Now, take a look where these states rank in education compared to Wisconsin and the Northeast. Get the picture?

My mother remembers when the unions came to the mills in the south and were looked upon harshly. Those were the good 'ol days weren’t they? Good 'ol managers who would pay you what “they” wanted to pay you and replace you with their brother in a minute. Or sleep with your wife, or else you are fired. Or sleep with your daughter or else she is fired. You will work 7 days a week “if I say so”. No breaks, no lunch and if I need your kids to work, they will work too. Irish need not apply. Blacks need not apply. It was the labor movement that brought you the weekend, a lunch break, an 8 hour day, 40 hour week and time and half for overtime. It paved the way against sexual harrassment and anti discrimination in the workplace.

Some forget the Catholic Church and the organized labor have been married for quite a long time. Think what religion made up the “working class poor” in the northeast and midwest. Oh, yeah…Catholics.

As for the comment about unions contributing to the Democratic party/campaign. I will say yes they have, just as much as the Christian Right (the evang/fundy type) has contributed to the Republican party/campaign.
 
**Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can’t Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest **
  • Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.*
cnsnews.com/news/article/two-thirds-wisconsin-public-school-8th-g
 
This issue about union busting, plain and simple. And the teachers in Wisconsin are not buying it. The union has agreed to 2 of 3 concessions and were flat out refused.
Say what you will but from news reports this seems like nothing more then union busting for sure. It appears that the union has floated comprimises to no avail.

The governor can say its about the budget all he wants…but seriously…he is getting a lot of the concessions he wants that would save money…and yet he won’t play.

BTW…who is stupid enough to think that these concessions alone will fill a 3.6 Billion dollar budget hole for 2013??

like the unions or not…what he is doing is NOT good for the state.
 
My DH and I are employed by DoD. My husband is a wage grade worker, a union steward and has bargaining rights. I am a GS worker, I do not. For the first three years of my employment, I was “career conditional”, I could be terminated within 3 yrs for poor performance.

My DH and I do “pay” into health insurance and our wages have been frozen for the next two years while our health insurance premiums have risen 7.2%. My DH is in a different retirement plan (CSRS) and I am in FERS. I “contribute” to my retirement plan as do workers in the private sector. Did I mention that my husband cannot strike?
A lot of us have had pay frozen for more than 2 years.

Many have insurance premiums rising over 25% annually.

I can be terminated anytime.

Did I mention I can’t strike?:rolleyes:
 
Why did “heavy industry” collapse?
At the end of WWII the United States came out of the war with all of its heavy industry intact. Great Britain, Germany and Japan were in shambles and needed to be rebuilt and the United States was there to provide the materials for the rebuilding efforts. Also, in the United States people were ready to get back to building and expanding projects that had essentially been on hold for the last ten years.

The American steel industry was built around blast furnaces, a technology that by the 1940s was already 40 years old. Without any competition the steel industry could name its price and get it. They made money hand over fist and by pricing themselves they could afford to cover all the inefficiencies in their manufacturing process.

By the end of the 40s Germany and Japan were recovering and their heavy industry was being rebuilt from the ground up. The German and Japanese steel industries chose to go with a new technology called a basic oxygen furnace. These furnaces could produce as much steel and as high of quality as the blast furnaces but with fewer men and in a shorter amount of time. Soon these countries were producing steel that even with shipping it over seas was still cheaper than American steel.

The problems were long in coming, but they couldn’t be staved off. America relied on outdated and inefficient technology. Their costs were too high to cut back to make any real difference in the competition with Germany, Japan and eventually South Korea.

Does that help?

ChadS
 
My DH and I do “pay” into health insurance and our wages have been frozen for the next two years while our health insurance premiums have risen 7.2%. My DH is in a different retirement plan (CSRS) and I am in FERS. I “contribute” to my retirement plan as do workers in the private sector. Did I mention that my husband cannot strike?
That’s some good news, you should be contributing and you shouldn’t be allowed to strike on the taxpayer dime.
If Wisconsin loses their bargaining rights, you will see overcrowded classrooms, high turn over of teachers and the quality of education will decline.
If the schools/state save money on salaries/benefits the classrooms will get smaller?
I have read posts regarding the swarming of industry to the south where bargaining rights are few, far between or non-existant. Now, take a look where these states rank in education compared to Wisconsin and the Northeast. Get the picture?
I have a bargaining right, give me a raise or I quit. I love it.

We take a more realistic approach to education down here. We don’t focus on Chinese test scores and many kids graduate to continue on in farming and raising animals. So we tend to focus heavily on those areas as there are many jobs in that sector here. I could prove you wrong all day long with this people in the south are dumber insult, but I don’t feel like wasting much more of my time on another complaining government worker.
My mother remembers when the unions came to the mills in the south and were looked upon harshly. Those were the good 'ol days weren’t they? Good 'ol managers who would pay you what “they” wanted to pay you and replace you with their brother in a minute. Or sleep with your wife, or else you are fired. Or sleep with your daughter or else she is fired. You will work 7 days a week “if I say so”. No breaks, no lunch and if I need your kids to work, they will work too. Irish need not apply. Blacks need not apply. It was the labor movement that brought you the weekend, a lunch break, an 8 hour day, 40 hour week and time and half for overtime. It paved the way against sexual harrassment and anti discrimination in the workplace.
What? It’s still like that down here, we love it that way. :rolleyes:
As for the comment about unions contributing to the Democratic party/campaign. I will say yes they have, just as much as the Christian Right (the evang/fundy type) has contributed to the Republican party/campaign.
Disgusting to see people contributing to the only major pro-life party in the US isn’t it?
 
If Wisconsin loses their bargaining rights, you will see overcrowded classrooms, high turn over of teachers and the quality of education will decline.
“Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.”

orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2011/02/22/two-thirds-of-wi-8th-graders-cant-read-proficiently/

Yes, it would be bad if the quality of education in Wisconsin declined. :rolleyes:
 
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