Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill

[pnewton]

If the governor of Wisconsin has his way, joining the union will be like joining the Swiss Navy.

And yet again, as Brendan said,"
But the right to join unions is not being removed, so the Governor is on safe theological ground."

Unless you are wilfully going beyond what the Catholic Church teaches, can you show us where that Catholic Church has expanded the right of workers to include specifice collective bargaining rights?

I will wait and see if you are anyone else is able to produce this Church teaching.

 

[Orogeny]

Taking away the right to collectively bargain for wages and benefits for all intents and purposes makes the resulting “union” absolutely toothless.

Well, at least be accurate. The bill would allow collective bargaining for wages.

I suppose laying off workers is a more Catholic way of doing things.

Peace

Tim

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

They are employees of the state enjoying pay and benefits that exceed those of the taxpayers supporting them. They are the ones trampling the individuals paying their salaries.

Don’t State employees pay taxes? They do indeed, and in doing so, they support their own pay as much as any other taxpayer does.

 

[Orogeny]

Don’t State employees pay taxes? They do indeed, and in doing so, they support their own pay as much as any other taxpayer does.

So? Does that mean they get to set their own pay?

Peace

Tim

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

So? Does that mean they get to set their own pay?

The Legislature sets the salaries, and as it represents the taxpayers of the state, the Ledge is doing the will of the public in setting the pay scale that it does.

 

[Orogeny]

The Legislature sets the salaries, and as it represents the taxpayers of the state, the Ledge is doing the will of the public in setting the pay scale that it does.

Then you support the legislature passing the bill. It seems that the bill is popular in Wisconsin. As I noted to gngsdad, this isn’t about pay scale. Salaries will still be collectively bargained. This is about benefits.

You know, it seems to me that if the unions were smart, they would offer to make these changes themselves, thus avoiding losing the collective bargaining power for benefits.

Peace

Tim

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Then you support the legislature passing the bill.

I only described the usual way State salaries are set, and to be sure, the unions usually have a say in the amounts.

 

[SamH]

Don’t State employees pay taxes? They do indeed, and in doing so, they support their own pay as much as any other taxpayer does.

As its been said many times. it’s easier to pay taxes when you are rich.

 

[a_priori]

Don’t State employees pay taxes? They do indeed, and in doing so, they support their own pay as much as any other taxpayer does.

This is the waterboarding of logic in the extreme.

 

[gnjsdad]

Where exactly is that in Church documents?

[The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...oc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html#Origin and meaning)

Chapter 4 Part 3

Brendan:

Is that only true for union members, or does the universal destination of goods impose upon Bill Gates a moral obligation to improve his material well being as well?

No. It imposes upon people like Bill Gates the moral obligation to share with those less fortunate his tremendous wealth.

 

[SamH]

Unless a corresponding component of that Church doctrine is the ability to compel the Angels to descend with bags of cash to pay the bills, I think a little further exegesis is in order.

I hope it works. Instead of demanding more pay from the taxpayers, they could go to church and pray instead.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

As its been said many times. it’s easier to pay taxes when you are rich.

Then you’re talking about people in the private sector, not the public.

 

[SamH]

Then you’re talking about people in the private sector, not the public.

Really?

Among several things, his plan would limit collective bargaining for most state and local employees to the issue of wages (instead of matters such as health coverage and vacations); require government workers to contribute 5.8% of their pay to pensions, far more than now, and require state employees to pay at least 12.6% of health care premiums, double the percentage most pay now.

sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/financial-crime-politics/2011/feb/12/wisconsin-governor-proposes-deep-benefit-slashes/

Their benefit package is better than any I’ve ever experianced as a private employee - even after the “austerity” package listed above is put in place.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Their benefit package is better than any I’ve ever experianced as a private employee - even after the “austerity” package listed above is put in place.

Don’t doubt you, but unionized private sector employees can do much better than those in the public sector. My BIL who works for the New York Post is a “mailer” who does something in connection with a machine that bundles newspapers prior to delivery to news stands, It’s a rare year that he doesn’t earn at least $150,000 with overtime, and he’s a fellow without a high school diploma. His benefits are awesome as well.

 

[imbroglio]

Then you support the legislature passing the bill. It seems that the bill is popular in Wisconsin.
Peace

Tim

Yes, we can see how popular it is.

 

[SamH]

Don’t doubt you, but unionized private sector employees can do much better than those in the public sector. My BIL who works for the New York Post is a “mailer” who does something in connection with a machine that bundles newspapers prior to delivery to news stands, It’s a rare year that he doesn’t earn at least $150,000 with overtime, and he’s a fellow without a high school diploma. His benefits are awesome as well.

So what’s the problem? If the public workers are that unhappy with their lot they can work in the private sector and make all kinds of easy money.

Oh, I forgot, those private sector union jobs are disappearing at an extremely fast rate. I wonder why?

 

[a_priori]

Yes, we can see how popular it is.

Addicts are always upset and vocal when opiates are withheld. Loud and messy doesn’t equal consensus.

 

[Ender]

The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church

Chapter 4 Part 3

Can you be a bit more specific … like providing the precise quote? I skimmed that section without seeing anything that applied to this situation - other than this:

“To this end, the preferential option for the poor should be reaffirmed in all its force[384].”

Given that the average salary for state workers in Ohio is 25% higher than that of private sector workers I would say our moral obligation is to the taxpayer, not the unions.

Ender

 

[LCMS_No_More]

So what’s the problem? If the public workers are that unhappy with their lot they can work in the private sector and make all kinds of easy money.

Oh, I forgot, those private sector union jobs are disappearing at an extremely fast rate. I wonder why?

Because offshoring labor is cheaper?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Addicts are always upset and vocal when opiates are withheld. Loud and messy doesn’t equal consensus.

Nice, working people are now addicts.