Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill

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Difficult times call for difficult choices. However,…

This is a problem? This is generous compared to what most get, and this is a cut???

I also am shocked to see a teacher sick-out forcing the cancelaltion of school. I guess there really are some that are in it just for the money.
I don’t think its about being in it for the money. Rather they turned into spoiled brats being pampered by the union.

While I’ve had terrible work environments when I was in Asia where the upper management-rank and file relationship resembled Feudalism, I’ve seen some of the evils of union where money is needlessly spent just to satisy some peron’s ego that they won’t get fired or that they’d get preference for jobs.
 
Revolutions everywhere–in the middle east, in the middle west. But there is a difference: in the middle east, the protesters are marching for democracy; in the middle west, they’re protesting against it. I mean, Isn’t it, well, a bit ironic that the protesters in Madison, blocking the state senate chamber, are chanting “Freedom, Democracy, Union” while trying to prevent a vote? Isn’t it ironic that the Democratic Senators have fled the democratic process? Isn’t it interesting that some of those who–rightly–protest the assorted Republican efforts to stymie majority rule in the U.S. Senate are celebrating the Democratic efforts to stymie the same in the Wisconsin Senate?

An election was held in Wisconsin last November. The Republicans won. In a democracy, there are consequences to elections and no one, not even the public employees unions, are exempt from that. There are no guarantees that labor contracts, including contracts governing the most basic rights of unions, can’t be renegotiated, or terminated for that matter. We hold elections to decide those basic parameters. And it seems to me that Governor Scott Walker’s basic requests are modest ones–asking public employees to contribute more to their pension and health care plans, though still far less than most private sector employees do. He is also trying to limit the unions’ abilities to negotiate work rules–and this is crucial when it comes to the more efficient operation of government in a difficult time. When I covered local government in New York 30 years ago, the school janitors (then paid a robust $60,000 plus per year) had negotiated the “right” to mop the cafeteria floors only once a week. And we all know about the near-impossibility of getting criminal and morally questionable–to say nothing of less than competent–teachers fired. The negotiation of such contracts were acts of collusion rather than of mediation. Government officials were, in effect, bribing their most activist constituents.

Public employees unions are an interesting hybrid. Industrial unions are organized against the might and greed of ownership. Public employees unions are organized against the might and greed…of the public? Despite their questionable provenance, public unions can serve an important social justice role, guaranteeing that a great many underpaid workers–school bus drivers, janitors (outside of New York City), home health care workers–won’t be too severely underpaid. That role will be kept intact in Wisconsin. In any given negotiation, I’m rooting for the union to win the highest base rates of pay possible…and the least restrictive work rules and guidelines governing how much truly creative public employees can be paid.

Read more: swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/18/wisconsin-the-hemlock-revolution/#ixzz1ELGtLopz
 
Don’t you think the same standard applies to politicians who promote the agenda of the US Chamber of Commerce? They are de facto members of that organization.
You can claim that, but its not a good comparison. Government Employee Unions baragin their own compensation with elected officials…the same elected officials that they give money to.

The US CoC is nothing but a lobbying organization pressing the interests of their members. They do not negotiate compensation/benefits/retirement/healthcare of their members with the government. The CoC simply try to influence legislation and/or public policy that benefits their members.
 
The right of workers to organize into unions is part of Catholic social doctrine. When the secular state aims to destroy a union, it acts counter to Church teaching. Such state action needs to be protested…vigorously.

Pope John Paul II, in his encyclical Centesimus annus stated…

“The theological dimension is needed both for interpreting and for solving
present day problems in human society”.

meaning that Church social doctrine is a matter of faith; Catholics are bound to believe that teaching.
Good point.
 
As a rule its generally adversarial by cause of management. Rather then form a working partnership with unions whereby both benefit, management generally fights the unions tooth and nail on everything from working conditions to wages and benefits.
Been in the fights, both sides, and I am not persuaded of this at all. Union leaders are, for the most part, at least as aggressive as is management. Anytime you see some employer go broke when its union employees are making considerably more than everybody else, you can pretty well be sure it wasn’t due to overaggresive management.

But when it comes to the Wisconsin thing, I see the mobs in the state house with their signs saying Walker is Hitler and Mussolini and all that stuff, and management caused that? That’s management fighting the unions tooth and nail? I don’t live in Wisconsin, but it kind of looks the other way around to me.
 
Well, “your other state”, New York State is just about bankrupt and is losing Congressional seats owing to loss of population.

Or are you a non-resident resident of NYS?
I am legally a resident of Arkansas, but similarly to Tony Bennett who left his heart in San Francisco, my heart remains in the greatest city that is and will ever be on the face of the Earth, New York City!! 👍
 
I am legally a resident of Arkansas, but similarly to Tony Bennett who left his heart in San Francisco, my heart remains in the greatest city that is and will ever be on the face of the Earth, New York City!! 👍
I’ve got to admit, NYC is one great place to visit!

Peace

Tim
 
I’ve got to admit, NYC is one great place to visit!
To visit, yes, indeed, a great place. But, to actually live there with all that it offers - just this side of heaven and eternal bliss! 🙂
 
I am legally a resident of Arkansas, but similarly to Tony Bennett who left his heart in San Francisco, my heart remains in the greatest city that is and will ever be on the face of the Earth, New York City!! 👍
New York Excpetionalism. An attitude dervided from Calvinism, I am sure.😉
 
We in the labor circles refer to it and other right-to-work states as a “right-to-starve”" states. 🙂
I lived in Idaho (right to work) for 6 or 7 yrs. … Right to starve is a good description. I moved 9 hours west to Portland Or and more than doubled my income for the same work.

I believe in unions. I am a union journeyman carpenter… but a union needs to act responsibly. The UAW bankrupt GM because the benefits they demanded ate up way more than the profit on a car.

Same principle is being demonstrated with the public employees union. The Governor is elected to set the fiscal house in order. The Public employees want the gravy train no matter the outcome… including bankrupting the state. It is a typical stubborn self centered union attitude. Good faith means good for them and the taxpayers dont matter. They are whining because they have to pay a fair share for health benefits… and have a bargaining right removed … that they repeatedly abused … to the downfall of the State that they live in.
 
You owe it to yourself, and if you’re married, you owe it to your wife as well! 😃
Only been there once. We were there in July 2001, before the attacks, so we got to visit the World Trade Center. A lot of great memories of NYC, not the least of which was that there were actually friendly, helpful locals! And they weren’t trying to rip me off or anything!

No, really!

Quit laughing, I mean it!😉

Peace

Tim
 
The teacher’s union are putting college kids in the hole? You might have noticed that the firefighters and police unions are exempt since they endorsed the governor. Hmmmmm. Of course they are out there, too.
It’s about union busting. Pure and simple.
It most certainly is. Check out this article:

host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_61064e9a-27b0-5f28-b6d1-a57c8b2aaaf6.html

If this debate were truly about financial difficulties and having to make the hard choices maybe, maybe, I would have some sympathy. But it’s not. The non-partisan Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau released a report just last month stating that WI would end the current Fiscal year with a $121 million surplus. That’s right a surplus. The so called budget crisis occured not because of a weak economy or fiscal mismanagement buy the previous Democratic administration. It was caused/creasted by Gov. Walker himself. He pushed through a $140 million spending measure which the article states was for special interests. It lists the programs. You can make your own judgments but it seems that they are mostly designed to benefit the wealthy and Republican constituents. As the article states, the so called crisis could be easily averted if the Gov would simply rescind his spending measures or at least defer them until next year. Does it bother any of the supporters of his actions that the crisis was caused by a spending bill? At the risk of being uncharitable, it is dishonest or at least misleading to suggest that this measure is necessary in the face of a tough budgetary cycle. If he and his supporters were being honest, they would at least admit that they are chosing their wealthy/Republican supporters over working class people. If you’re comfortable with this choice, God bless.
 
It most certainly is. Check out this article:

host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_61064e9a-27b0-5f28-b6d1-a57c8b2aaaf6.html

If this debate were truly about financial difficulties and having to make the hard choices maybe, maybe, I would have some sympathy. But it’s not. The non-partisan Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau released a report just last month stating that WI would end the current Fiscal year with a $121 million surplus. That’s right a surplus. The so called budget crisis occured not because of a weak economy or fiscal mismanagement buy the previous Democratic administration. It was caused/creasted by Gov. Walker himself. He pushed through a $140 million spending measure which the article states was for special interests. It lists the programs. You can make your own judgments but it seems that they are mostly designed to benefit the wealthy and Republican constituents. As the article states, the so called crisis could be easily averted if the Gov would simply rescind his spending measures or at least defer them until next year. Does it bother any of the supporters of his actions that the crisis was caused by a spending bill? At the risk of being uncharitable, it is dishonest or at least misleading to suggest that this measure is necessary in the face of a tough budgetary cycle. If he and his supporters were being honest, they would at least admit that they are chosing their wealthy/Republican supporters over working class people. If you’re comfortable with this choice, God bless.
Why am I not surprised? 🤷
 
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