Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill

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ManOnFire said:
Govt. bankruptcy will lead to socialism or Marxism. It’s Econ 100. Printing more money to artificially inflate ourselves out of the problem is not real, yet it’s the fastest and least labor-intensive way to make the numbers look impressive. Too bad it’s not working. Inflation will send more jobs to China when our labor rates are artificially higher.
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Never said anything about printing more money. I’m talking about enacting policies that bring jobs back to this country, that help re-build its infrastructure and put people in all sectors back to work.

Am I the only one that believes the economic pie can grow and doesn’t always have to remain the same size?

ChadS
 
First of all, in America we have separation of Church and State so this is not a religious issue.
HOWEVER, I am shocked and dismayed at the number of people on this site who are advocating the position of the governor of Wisconsin who clearly wants to kill the unions.

We’re talking about:
Police Officers
Teachers
State Troopers
The Governor himself

These people deserve a fair wage and decent work environments. In the final analysis however, when all your employees walk out on you and refuse to return until you meet their demands the rank and file will win regardless, but many people who are anti worker are showing their true colors and their lack of humanity. Imagine how those State Troopers felt about going out to arrest the Wisconsin 12! They were told to take into custody people who were standing up for THEIR rights! No wonder they came up empty handed! Besides there are REAL crimes they need to be working on, not this Governor created mess!!
 
pismopal said:
Even though your analogy is perfect…easy to understand and illustrative…some will not get it because they refuse to “get it”. Basic math…the 6th grade stuff…eludes many:shrug:
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I understand it perfectly, but it seems that the poster is off topic, this is not a lesson in Economics, this thread is about the situation in Wisconsin.

The governor has refused to talk to the pro union folks even though the union has agreed to the cutbacks! Why is everyone ignoring that fact? The Guv is being Mr Macho Man while Rome is burning. There should be a recall. I hope that there is. I also hope that
the state workers all take off a day to demonstrate what a miserable world Wisconsin would be without them.
 
Freeda said:
I also hope that the state workers all take off a day to demonstrate what a miserable world Wisconsin would be without them.
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Then the response of the anti-unionists would be that the Governor should fire them all. And, if he did so, then what? The anti-unionists would be clamoring for the jobs, and wanting those wages, not the lower ones in the private sector. LOL!
 
Freeda said:
Imagine how those State Troopers felt about going out to arrest the Wisconsin 12! They were told to take into custody people who were standing up for THEIR rights! No wonder they came up empty handed!
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Of course. America is turning into one big “O.J. Jury”. It’s no wonder we’re on the skids.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Then the response of the anti-unionists would be that the Governor should fire them all. And, if he did so, then what? The anti-unionists would be clamoring for the jobs, and wanting those wages, not the lower ones in the private sector. LOL!
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oh yes Rich :rolleyes: There are a lot people standing in line just waiting to be a teacher, a fire fighter, state police. I guess the governor doesn’t want to pay those who teach and those who protect and serve a decent wage. Sad, really.

In the south, the right work states…now there are some good 'ol boys there. They get paid next to nothing and required to patrol a wider area. I know, I live here. There is a big difference in the education level of the highway patrol, the city police officers and the county sheriffs. There are some states that have constables because they need the help. Fire Departments are “volunteer”. Do you know how that works in a rural area when your house is on fire or you need an ambulance? 🤷

If Wisconsin goes, so do the other states. It will be,
  • I will pay you what I want, I will pay you less than your counterpart because I like him/her better
  • sorry, you have to go, my brother-in-law is taking your place,
  • yes you have been with the company for 20 yrs and Earl has been with the company 5 yrs., but hey, he is the second cousin, of my wife twice removed and I have to look out for family, you know how that goes, sorry
  • the money you set aside for your retirement is gone, we are sorry but we had to use that money to keep the company afloat & I had to make a payment on my vacation home in Aspen
  • promotion, well I have to promote Phil, because he has a family with 5 kids and he needs the money, you are single, you can wait, and yes I know you have more education and experience than Phil, but the company feels Phil needs it more
  • I need you work Saturday and no you won’t get time and half, so if you can’t come in on Saturday, I’m sorry you will be terminated
  • I’m sorry your mother, father, are dying, but we aren’t required to give you a paid sick day, so if you need to go to Timbucktoo to care for your parent, there won’t be a job waiting for you when you come back
  • I know you practice your faith on Sunday, but you need to be here at work to get this inventory done promptly at 7 am. We may be working into the early evening, sorry.
  • I know your daughter’s wedding is Saturday, but something came up and I need you here for inventory.
  • We don’t pay sick days here, so take a few aspirin, a spoon of cough syrup and you’ll be ok
Do you see where this is going? Some have forgotten the good ol days.:cool:
 
I’m way too lazy and unconcearned to investigate what’s going on in Wisconsin, but TEPO thinks that the unionisation of government employees is a real life nightmare…

I still think that most government employees can be replaced by computer programs and kiosk machines.

Welcome to my future. It’s about technology and limited government.
 
TEPO said:
I’m way too lazy and unconcearned to investigate what’s going on in Wisconsin, but TEPO thinks that the unionisation of government employees is a real life nightmare…

I still think that most government employees **can be replaced **by computer programs and kiosk machines.

Welcome to my future. It’s about technology and limited government.
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so can you TEPO, so can you…

…then they came for the trade unionists…I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist…🤷
 
Julianna said:
so can you TEPO, so can you…

…then they came for the trade unionists…I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist…🤷
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Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy to be a Union worker… If I don’t like my job, I just go to the hall and take a call for another employer -it’s great…! I’m like a doctor, I take my ‘practice’ wherever I want.

I just have trouble accepting the unionisation of employees who make a living reaping the resources of American tax dollars.

My salary comes from willing customers. Not from forced donations such as tax money.
 
SamH said:
The only problem with that arguement is these people ARE PART OF THE SECULAR STATE.
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But the only problem with THAT argument is that the Church doesn’t recognize state (OR corporate) ownership of people, and recognizes the right of people to bargain collectively in order to keep whatever entities–the state, corporations or whoever (and their tendencies to try to GET ownership over people) more at arms-length, and less overpowering. And no unbridgeable gulf between state and private sector is recognized.
 
My feelings exactly Tepo. Unfortunately too many people accept the idea that it’s ok to tax us into poverty if “it’s for the children”, but we don’t ever hear about that destroying the middle class.
 
colmywaykurtz said:
But the only problem with THAT argument is that the Church doesn’t recognize state (OR corporate) ownership of people, and recognizes the right of people to bargain collectively in order to keep whatever entities–the state, corporations or whoever (and their tendencies to try to GET ownership over people) more at arms-length, and less overpowering. And no unbridgeable gulf between state and private sector is recognized.
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Just Because the Church recognizes the right of people to organize does not mean that Catholics are bound to support every demand of the union makes.

It is interested in one of the things that is studiously ignored by those supporting this union is the fact the government is also trying to end the automatic deduction of union dues from public employees paychecks. Not only does it force our tax dollars to be used to do the paperwork involved in remitting this money to the unions but it also forces the government to support, again by the work involved in remitting these dues a specific political party. In 2008 unions gave the Democrat party $400 million, almost all of this money came from forced deduction of dues from workers paychecks. I don’t see anything in church teaching that says we have to support forced payroll deductions for union dues
 
Julianna said:
oh yes Rich :rolleyes: There are a lot people standing in line just waiting to be a teacher, a fire fighter, state police. I guess the governor doesn’t want to pay those who teach and those who protect and serve a decent wage. Sad, really.

In the south, the right work states…now there are some good 'ol boys there. They get paid next to nothing and required to patrol a wider area. I know, I live here. There is a big difference in the education level of the highway patrol, the city police officers and the county sheriffs. There are some states that have constables because they need the help. Fire Departments are “volunteer”. Do you know how that works in a rural area when your house is on fire or you need an ambulance? 🤷

If Wisconsin goes, so do the other states. It will be,
  • I will pay you what I want, I will pay you less than your counterpart because I like him/her better
  • sorry, you have to go, my brother-in-law is taking your place,
  • yes you have been with the company for 20 yrs and Earl has been with the company 5 yrs., but hey, he is the second cousin, of my wife twice removed and I have to look out for family, you know how that goes, sorry
  • the money you set aside for your retirement is gone, we are sorry but we had to use that money to keep the company afloat & I had to make a payment on my vacation home in Aspen
  • promotion, well I have to promote Phil, because he has a family with 5 kids and he needs the money, you are single, you can wait, and yes I know you have more education and experience than Phil, but the company feels Phil needs it more
  • I need you work Saturday and no you won’t get time and half, so if you can’t come in on Saturday, I’m sorry you will be terminated
  • I’m sorry your mother, father, are dying, but we aren’t required to give you a paid sick day, so if you need to go to Timbucktoo to care for your parent, there won’t be a job waiting for you when you come back
  • I know you practice your faith on Sunday, but you need to be here at work to get this inventory done promptly at 7 am. We may be working into the early evening, sorry.
  • I know your daughter’s wedding is Saturday, but something came up and I need you here for inventory.
  • We don’t pay sick days here, so take a few aspirin, a spoon of cough syrup and you’ll be ok
Do you see where this is going? Some have forgotten the good ol days.:cool:
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Very apt examples and true to life, but our posters who love the “right to work” states are oblivious to that. I’m particularly disturbed that so many companies don’t give paid sick leave and even paid “personal” days as for vacation and such. I don’t understand why so many on this Forum believe that the bosses and owners are always right and that the workers don’t deserve more than what is offered to them.
 
TEPO said:
I just have trouble accepting the unionisation of employees who make a living reaping the resources of American tax dollars.
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Don’t public employees encounter the same problems in connection with their work that private sector unionists do? If so, they deserve representation as much as those do.
My salary comes from willing customers. Not from forced donations such as tax money.
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LOL! If there were no unions, you’d still have to make “forced donations” to the various governments as taxes!
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Very apt examples and true to life, but our posters who love the “right to work” states are oblivious to that. I’m particularly disturbed that so many companies don’t give paid sick leave and even paid “personal” days as for vacation and such. I don’t understand why so many on this Forum believe that the bosses and owners are always right and that the workers don’t deserve more than what is offered to them.
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So becuase Unions in the past made good contributions to work rules we are now rewuired to acede to every demand they make? Becuase the make positive contributions people should be forced to join unions whether they want to or not?

The truth in the dispute and Wisconsin have nothing to do with unions. It is an attempt by the government to rein in runaway costs and balance the budget. The Democrat Party is desperate to stop this bill not because it removes collective-bargaining for benefits, they are desperate to stop it because it eliminates forced deduction of union dues from public employees paychecks.
 
iamrefreshed said:
So now we compare the Wisconsin union issue to the Holocaust?:mad:
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Don’t get into high dudgeon over the remark! It’s not a comparison to World War II atrocities. It’s a comparison to “divide and conquer.” Absent solidarity, workers can be picked off one by one. Sheesh! 🤷
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Don’t get into high dudgeon over the remark! It’s not a comparison to World War II atrocities. It’s a comparison to “divide and conquer.” Absent solidarity, workers can be picked off one by one. Sheesh! 🤷
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For those who are confused this is a Holocaust victim:



This is a Union Protestor:

 
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