Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill

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pnewton said:
Yes, but many of them are making poor decisions. I am ashamed of what is happening in my own state and am considering jumping party for the first time in my life. I think the Republicans are designing their own downfall this year.
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Why? Because they want to balance the budget, like the most of us mortals? These public sector unions want the power to extort money from the taxpayers, regardless of the fact of whether there is any money or not.

I have to live within my budget. If I were to write checks when I didn’t have money in my account, I’d be arrested for a crime. When I went to court, what do you think the judge would say if my response was “well, I was just going to print up some money, backed by nothing, of course, to cover my checks.”

It is time for the government to live within the restraints of a balanced budget, like the rest of us.
 
Mickey_Finn said:
OBJECTIVE PROOF or mult? Nice, that your first post is spent denying someones rights.

ATB
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Denying someone their rights? What “right” does a government employee have to extort money from the taxpayers?

There is no such thing as a “right” to force other people to pay your salary.
 
OBJECTIVE_TRUTH said:
Why? Because they want to balance the budget, like the most of us mortals? These public sector unions want the power to extort money from the taxpayers, regardless of the fact of whether there is any money or not.

I have to live within my budget. If I were to write checks when I didn’t have money in my account, I’d be arrested for a crime. When I went to court, what do you think the judge would say if my response was “well, I was just going to print up some money, backed by nothing, of course, to cover my checks.”

It is time for the government to live within the restraints of a balanced budget, like the rest of us.
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Let me try to get this straight. You equate collective bargaining rights, and unbalanced budgets?

ATB
 
Mickey_Finn said:
Six figure saleries? Could you provide some proof? The rest of your post seems to be empty rhetoric.

ATB
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Average teacher salaries in Wisconsin with benefits is about 105,000 dollars. The only medical they contribue to is dental, the rear including their retirement and their health insurance After they retire is paid for by the taxpayers of Wisconsin. I’ve provided this proof on another thread, but do not have the time to get to it now.

I will repeat what I said on the other thread.

The unions and the politicians sat down at the table to negotiate, and the unions walked away with the table, chairs, and the taxpayers shirt In exchange for nothing. Democrats know union support is in the bag and therein lies the conflict of interest to the taxpayer. Look at Cali and New York, firefighters retiring at 50 with 100,000 dollar a year pensions? You want to tell me the great and honorable politicians negotiated that in favor of the taxpayer? I think not.

Empty rhetoric or not, I don’t have a dog in the Wisconsin race. Being a conservative with libertarian leanings my beliefs are to each state their own. I’m just calling it as it is. Those who are arguing with me would stop and argue with a brick will if it had anti union grafitti painted on it.
 
OBJECTIVE_TRUTH said:
Denying someone their rights? What “right” does a government employee have to extort money from the taxpayers?

There is no such thing as a “right” to force other people to pay your salary.
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:confused: Now you equate bargaining collecitvly with extortion? Let me ask you this. Is it extortion to threaten layoffs to force concessions?

ATB
 
Mickey_Finn said:
Let me try to get this straight. You equate collective bargaining rights, and unbalanced budgets?

ATB
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You don’t have it “straight.” Government employees should not be granted “collective bargaining rights.”

When is the last time that a government union (an obscenity at best) was concerned about the budget, balanced or otherwise? Collective bargaining? At whose expense?

Since it is the taxpayer that has to pay your salary, which effects the budget, I’d say there is a direct correlation between collective bargaining and an unbalanced budget.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
Average teacher salaries in Wisconsin with benefits is about 105,000 dollars. The only medical they contribue to is dental, the rear including their retirement and their health insurance After they retire is paid for by the taxpayers of Wisconsin. I’ve provided this proof on another thread, but do not have the time to get to it now.

I will repeat what I said on the other thread.

The unions and the politicians sat down at the table to negotiate, and the unions walked away with the table, chairs, and the taxpayers shirt In exchange for nothing. Democrats know union support is in the bag and therein lies the conflict of interest to the taxpayer. Look at Cali and New York, firefighters retiring at 50 with 100,000 dollar a year pensions? You want to tell me the great and honorable politicians negotiated that in favor of the taxpayer? I think not.

Empty rhetoric or not, I don’t have a dog in the Wisconsin race. Being a conservative with libertarian leanings my beliefs are to each state their own. I’m just calling it as it is. Those who are arguing with me would stop and argue with a brick will if it had anti union grafitti painted on it.
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teacher-world.com/teacher-salary/wisconsin.html

Wisconsin Teaching Salaries and Benefits
People often believe that teachers don’t make a lot of money. Those in the know, though, are aware that compensation in the education industry can be quite generous, especially when you factor in the great vacation schedule and the comprehensive benefits packages that usually go along with teaching. In Wisconsin, teaching salaries averaged $52,644 in 2009-10, according to the National Education Association, with most school districts offering benefits that range from health insurance to retirement plans. (1)

The average Wisconsin teacher salary does vary, however. One major source of salary variation is what grade level you teach. In May 2009, preschool teachers in Wisconsin earned an average salary of $23,460, elementary school teachers earned $51,240, and secondary school teachers earned $49,400. (2) Education and experience level also make a difference in teacher salaries: secondary school teachers in the 90th wage percentile earned $69,550, while the entry-level teacher salary is generally in the $30,000s. (3)

Geographic location is another significant reason for variation in Wisconsin teaching salaries. Areas that have a higher cost of living often pay correspondingly higher salaries. Below are average annual earnings for secondary school teachers in five of the largest metropolitan areas in the state: (4)

•Green Bay: $55,110
•Kenosha: $68,400
•Madison: $50,770
•Milwaukee: $54,620
•Racine: $49,710

ATB
 
OBJECTIVE_TRUTH said:
You don’t have it “straight.” Government employees should not be granted “collective bargaining rights.”

When is the last time that a government union (an obscenity at best) was concerned about the budget, balanced or otherwise? Collective bargaining? At whose expense?
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So, you feel that government (public) employees are some how inferior to private sector workers. Or, do you feel that all employees are inferior. That none of them deserve the right to bargain collectively?

ATB
 
Mickey_Finn said:
teacher-world.com/teacher-salary/wisconsin.html

Wisconsin Teaching Salaries and Benefits
People often believe that teachers don’t make a lot of money. Those in the know, though, are aware that compensation in the education industry can be quite generous, especially when you factor in the great vacation schedule and the comprehensive benefits packages that usually go along with teaching. In Wisconsin, teaching salaries averaged $52,644 in 2009-10, according to the National Education Association, with most school districts offering benefits that range from health insurance to retirement plans. (1)

The average Wisconsin teacher salary does vary, however. One major source of salary variation is what grade level you teach. In May 2009, preschool teachers in Wisconsin earned an average salary of $23,460, elementary school teachers earned $51,240, and secondary school teachers earned $49,400. (2) Education and experience level also make a difference in teacher salaries: secondary school teachers in the 90th wage percentile earned $69,550, while the entry-level teacher salary is generally in the $30,000s. (3)

Geographic location is another significant reason for variation in Wisconsin teaching salaries. Areas that have a higher cost of living often pay correspondingly higher salaries. Below are average annual earnings for secondary school teachers in five of the largest metropolitan areas in the state: (4)

•Green Bay: $55,110
•Kenosha: $68,400
•Madison: $50,770
•Milwaukee: $54,620
•Racine: $49,710

ATB
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Don’t forget the three months of vacation the teacher gets every year. So that $55,110 is for nine months of work, right?
 
OBJECTIVE_TRUTH said:
Don’t forget the three months of vacation the teacher gets every year. So that $55,110 is for nine months of work, right?
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Oh, I admire their free time. Make no mistake. Yet, I resist the urge to try to take it away from them.

ATB
 
Mickey_Finn said:
So, you feel that government (public) employees are some how inferior to private sector workers. Or, do you feel that all employees are inferior. That none of them deserve the right to bargain collectively?

ATB
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No, public employees are not inferior. That’s not the point. The point is the people who are forced to pay. A private employer can pay what they want and it has nothing to do with the budget. On the other hand, when public employees force their employer (the taxpayer) to pay more than the money that is actually available, you end up with an unbalanced budget.

Can you pay your bills with money that is not in your account? Can you engage in deficit spending? You could, but if caught you would be charged with a crime.

Public employees have no right to force other people (the taxpayer) to pay their salary, especially if the money is not there.

You cannot compare private sector unions with public sector unions.
 
“Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill”

I prefer to call it a pro-taxpayer bill!🙂
 
OBJECTIVE_TRUTH said:
No, public employees are not inferior. That’s not the point. The point is the people who are forced to pay. A private employer can pay what they want and it has nothing to do with the budget. On the other hand, when public employees force their employer (the taxpayer) to pay more than the money that is actually available, you end up with an unbalanced budget.

Can you pay your bills with money that is not in your account? Can you engage in deficit spending? You could, but if caught you would be charged with a crime.

Public employees have no right to force other people (the taxpayer) to pay their salary, especially if the money is not there.

You cannot compare private sector unions with public sector unions.
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All of your concerns are brought up in collective bargaining. It’s worked well for 50 years or more. Taxpayers are not forced in any way. They get to live where they choose. They get to vote for millages. They get to elect the people who negotiate for them. I’ll point one other thing out to you. The taxpayers control over his tax dollars while considerable. Ends when the government collects it. The wages I earn, are just that. My wages, not your tax dollars.

ATB

Gotta go!
 
Mickey_Finn said:
All of your concerns are brought up in collective bargaining. It’s worked well for 50 years or more. Taxpayers are not forced in any way. They get to live where they choose. They get to vote for millages. They get to elect the people who negotiate for them. I’ll point one other thing out to you. The taxpayers control over his tax dollars while considerable. Ends when the government collects it. The wages I earn, are just that. My wages, not your tax dollars.

ATB
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“The wages I earn, are just that. My wages, not your tax dollars.”
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What? You can’t be serious! Who is the union bargaining with? The school district, right? Who pays the budget for the school districts? You are bargaining with the government, which means the taxpayer.

Mickey, you say that the taxpayer can choose to live somewhere else. That’s true, and you can choose not to be a teacher.
 
seekerz said:
Honestly, I am so tired of hearing that ‘jobs’ excuse. First they needed confidence in the economy, then they needed extension of tax cuts, now what else is standing in the way of the the ‘job creators’, pray tell? I have a suggestion for job seekers: go back to school if you can, get some training…create your own jobs however small and be your own bosses: that has to work better than placing hope in failed economic policies that are guaranteed to perpetuate the stagnation of middle class income for the forseeable future.
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That is a GREAT recommendation. This country was built to greatness on the spirit of the entrepreneur, not on the backs of corporate tax slaves.
 
pnewton said:
Yes, but many of them are making poor decisions. I am ashamed of what is happening in my own state and am considering jumping party for the first time in my life. I think the Republicans are designing their own downfall this year.
Click to expand...
Come over to the Libertarian Party. We need good articulate people like you.
 
OBJECTIVE_TRUTH said:
Why? Because they want to balance the budget, like the most of us mortals? These public sector unions want the power to extort money from the taxpayers, regardless of the fact of whether there is any money or not.

I have to live within my budget. If I were to write checks when I didn’t have money in my account, I’d be arrested for a crime. When I went to court, what do you think the judge would say if my response was “well, I was just going to print up some money, backed by nothing, of course, to cover my checks.”

It is time for the government to live within the restraints of a balanced budget, like the rest of us.
Click to expand...
No. It is because Republicans are dismantling our education system. We are looking at losing here music and art in all the lower grades, and all programs that actually help high schoolers graduate in the upper grades. Our short term short-sightedness is going to leave us with more unemployed drop-outs and push our educations system even further back in world competition. Paying teachers more is not the answer. In fact, in all the rhetoric, across the board pay cuts have never even been considered. More to the point, any additional tax increase has also not been considered.

The deficit has ballooned under Obama, but Bush too engaged in rampant deficit spending. They have engaged in a bipartisan effort to bankrupt America and it is probably their most successful bipartisan project. Now, that the bill is coming due, no one has the fortitude to take the one step that is needed. Raising taxes. I do not like paying taxes any more than others, but when we have spent in the hole the last ten years, I see it as the most logical course of action.

The evils of the federal government have been passed on to the states. We were all so willing to take up arms on the border because the feds can’t cut it. It is time we make the sacrifices financially on the state level because of federal incompetence.
 
pnewton said:
No. It is because Republicans are dismantling our education system. We are looking at losing here music and art in all the lower grades, and all programs that actually help high schoolers graduate in the upper grades. Our short term short-sightedness is going to leave us with more unemployed drop-outs and push our educations system even further back in world competition.
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“When school children start paying union dues, that 's when I’ll start representing the interests of school children.”
  • Albert Shanker (Sore), late President of AFT & UFT
 
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