Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill

[LCMS_No_More]

After some quick research, I have answers to my own questions.

He may be, but I’m curious as to a couple of details.

Is it true that ALL Federal Workers are denied collective bargaining rights?

No. Under the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978, Federal employees were granted the right to opt-in to collective bargaining.

If not all, who?

Employees declared exempt from collective bargaining by the President.

If only some are allowed to collectively bargain, when did this begin?

When the Civil Service Reform Act was signed in 1978.

Who was President at the time?

Jimmy Carter.

Did any group have collective bargaining rights only to lose them later?

Employees working under the Department of Homeland Security or in other national security departments.

Which President decided to deny these right?

George W. Bush.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Just made a change so you can see what you’re really saying.

You can’t differentiate between “a group of working people” and an organized union?

 

[Mickey_Finn]

No. Public sector employees should not have collective bargaining rights because their employers (the taxpayers) are not effectively allowed at the bargaining table. The unions ensure that pro-union politicians are put into office who then cater to whatever the union demands are. Public employees should not be given any benefit that is superior to the people who actually pay their salary. In private sector employees have to contribute to their own retirement, then so should public sector employees. same goes with tenure, salary, and other benefits.

Your post is completly false.
Public workers do not work for the taxpayers. They work for their respective organizations. State, county, municipal, what have you. They have representation at the bargaining table.

Unions do not have any better luck placing candidates in office then say business, or the humane society of the US. Voters elect, period.

As for having rights superior to those who pay their taxes. First of all. The agency that the public worker is employed by. Pays his or her salery. Once I earn my pay it’s mine. not the taxpayers.

If someone doesn’t have collective bargaining rights, or healthcare. They did that to themselves. There is no body else to blame but themselves.

ATB

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Every worker faces the threat of layoffs. Bargaining collectively as a government employee, then going on strike when you don’t get what you want and shutting the schools down, certainly could be called extortion. I notice the union doesn’t go on strike during the summer, but waits until the school year has started, the kids be darned.

Government employees belonging to a union, is absurd for all the reasons I listed.

Not every worker faces the threat of layoffs. Ourselves, we have bargained no lay off clauses. This fact alone shows that layoffs are used to extort from the workers. Your focused on teachers. By the way, I’m not one. My grammar alone, should have clued you to that.

The next life is the perfect one. This one is sometimes hard. Negotiations are not always pretty. But, workers have the right to bargain collectively. If this is wrongly taken away. We may well see the Republicans swept from office once and for all. Where will that leave the pro-life movement?

ATB

 

[OBJECTIVE_TRUTH]

Not every worker faces the threat of layoffs. Ourselves, we have bargained no lay off clauses. This fact alone shows that layoffs are used to extort from the workers. Your focused on teachers. By the way, I’m not one. My grammar alone, should have clued you to that.

The next life is the perfect one. This one is sometimes hard. Negotiations are not always pretty. But, workers have the right to bargain collectively. If this is wrongly taken away. We may well see the Republicans swept from office once and for all. Where will that leave the pro-life movement?

ATB

We certainly don’t need anymore damage done to the Pro-Life movement, considering Obama and his thugs are so pro-death.

But the Republicans are not going to get swept out of office. They will actually gain in the House and the Senate, and with any luck at all, President death and his abortionists will be history.

That’s what’s wrong with unions. You bargain a no-layoff clause. Good God Almighty, what if business goes south and the employer doesn’t need so many employees? You mean to tell me that you think it is just fine to force the employer to keep more people that he actually needs? What a dumb way to run a business.

Public employee and union is an oxymoron.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

You can’t differentiate between “a group of working people” and an organized union?

Yes, I can. A group of working people is just that…a group of people doing work.

When those people organize themselves for the purpose of mutual protection and to act as one before management, that’s a union.

 

[a_priori]

Unions do not have any better luck placing candidates in office then say business, or the humane society of the US. Voters elect, period.

As a public employee union member and ex-union negotiator, I can tell you that this is simply wrong. In fact, it is e-x-c-r-u-c-i-a-t-i-n-g-l-y wrong. :nope:

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Your post is completly false.
Public workers do not work for the taxpayers. They work for their respective organizations. State, county, municipal, what have you. They have representation at the bargaining table.

Unions do not have any better luck placing candidates in office then say business, or the humane society of the US. Voters elect, period.

As for having rights superior to those who pay their taxes. First of all. The agency that the public worker is employed by. Pays his or her salery. Once I earn my pay it’s mine. not the taxpayers.

If someone doesn’t have collective bargaining rights, or healthcare. They did that to themselves. There is no body else to blame but themselves.

ATB

First, I am not anti-union. I am anti-public employee union. I think unions play an important role in private sector employee relations.

Second, The “agency” exists BECAUSE OF THE TAXPAYER. The State, the agencies, the politicians, the bureaucrats are all representative of the TAXPAYER. Yes, once a public employee gets paid, the miney is his, but before he gets paid, that money rightfully belongs to the TAXPAYER, not the agency, the State, the governor or whoever. They are simply custodians and stewards of the TAXPAYER’s money. Its not their money to do whatever they want with it.

Its attitudes like this, that taxpayer money doesn’t really belong to the taxpayer, but rather belongs to the state is why the whole country is in such a freakin mess.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Yes, I can. A group of working people is just that…a group of people doing work.

When those people organize themselves for the purpose of mutual protection and to act as one before management, that’s a union.

When that group of working people organize, then force everyone in the company to pay dues or be fired, even having it confiscated out of their check, and then take those dues, pay the union leaders outrageous salaries and benefits, and then take the rest and give it to a political party that will run candidates that will give the unions even more benefits than the private sector has and make it nearly impossible for unqualified, incompetant people to be fired, makes it an instrument of organized crime by engaging in a system called racketeering. And, since a significant number of unions have ties to the cosa nostra, the comparisons to the mafia are even more relavant.

 

[pnewton]

Your post is completly false.
Public workers do not work for the taxpayers. They work for their respective organizations.

And this statement says it all. There is a fundamental difference in understanding that leads differing conclusions. As one who draws pay from a governmental entity, I never forget who I work for and that my salary is paid off of the working man’s taxes. The fact that some do forget this and think only in terms of the bureaocracy they work for is what has allowed governement to grow out of control.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

When that group of working people organize, then force everyone in the company to pay dues or be fired, even having it confiscated out of their check, and then take those dues, pay the union leaders outrageous salaries and benefits, and then take the rest and give it to a political party that will run candidates that will give the unions even more benefits than the private sector has and make it nearly impossible for unqualified, incompetant people to be fired, makes it an instrument of organized crime by engaging in a system called racketeering. And, since a significant number of unions have ties to the cosa nostra, the comparisons to the mafia are even more relavant.

I want to clarify this outburst by saying that I hold no grudge against the individual union member. It is the union leadership and their practices that I am particularly affronted by.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

We certainly don’t need anymore damage done to the Pro-Life movement, considering Obama and his thugs are so pro-death.

But the Republicans are not going to get swept out of office. They will actually gain in the House and the Senate, and with any luck at all, President death and his abortionists will be history.

That’s what’s wrong with unions. You bargain a no-layoff clause. Good God Almighty, what if business goes south and the employer doesn’t need so many employees? You mean to tell me that you think it is just fine to force the employer to keep more people that he actually needs? What a dumb way to run a business.

Public employee and union is an oxymoron.

Well, your view on the upcoming election results is interesting to say the least. But, you must understand about bargaining. Nothing is given away. Everything is payed for in one way or another.

As for public employees and union membership. It’s the life of many good Catholics.

ATB

 

[Mickey_Finn]

First, I am not anti-union. I am anti-public employee union. I think unions play an important role in private sector employee relations.

Second, The “agency” exists BECAUSE OF THE TAXPAYER. The State, the agencies, the politicians, the bureaucrats are all representative of the TAXPAYER. Yes, once a public employee gets paid, the miney is his, but before he gets paid, that money rightfully belongs to the TAXPAYER, not the agency, the State, the governor or whoever. They are simply custodians and stewards of the TAXPAYER’s money. Its not their money to do whatever they want with it.

Its attitudes like this, that taxpayer money doesn’t really belong to the taxpayer, but rather belongs to the state is why the whole country is in such a freakin mess.

Various states, counties, townships, cities, and villages. Exist because of law. So, do taxes come to think of it.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

And this statement says it all. There is a fundamental difference in understanding that leads differing conclusions. As one who draws pay from a governmental entity, I never forget who I work for and that my salary is paid off of the working man’s taxes. The fact that some do forget this and think only in terms of the bureaocracy they work for is what has allowed governement to grow out of control.

I think your mislead sir. We don’t work for the tax payers. We are employed to serve the tax payers. Very large difference there. As a firefighter, I don’t answer to the citizens. I answer to my fire chief. He answers to the Mayor. The mayor answers to the taxpayers, the michigan municipal league, the historic preservation society, the united bicycle riders, and many others. I wouldn’t last a day in his job. Nor he in mine.

ATB

 

[Mickey_Finn]

As a public employee union member and ex-union negotiator, I can tell you that this is simply wrong. In fact, it is e-x-c-r-u-c-i-a-t-i-n-g-l-y wrong. :nope:

Voters don’t elect? If the unions place the candidates. Why are they being thrown to the wolves as we speak? .

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I think your mislead sir. We don’t work for the tax payers. We are employed to serve the tax payers. Very large difference there. As a firefighter, I don’t answer to the citizens. I answer to my fire chief. He answers to the Mayor. The mayor answers to the taxpayers, the michigan municipal league, the historic preservation society, the united bicycle riders, and many others. I wouldn’t last a day in his job. Nor he in mine.

ATB

Ummm, if I am a janitor at Oracle, I answer to the Facilities Manager. The Facilities Manager answers to the Plant Director. The Plant Director works for the CFO. The CFO works for Larry Ellison. For me to say that I don’t work for Larry Ellison is disingenuous at best. I may not have morning coffee with the man, but I am in his employ.

If you are a firefighter who works for the fire chief who works for the mayor who works for the taxpayer, YOU work for the taxpayer. That doesn;'t mean that every taxpayer in your state or municipality can walk in and boss you around, but they are your employers nontheless.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Ummm, if I am a janitor at Oracle, I answer to the Facilities Manager. The Facilities Manager answers to the Plant Director. The Plant Director works for the CFO. The CFO works for Larry Ellison. For me to say that I don’t work for Larry Ellison is disingenuous at best. I may not have morning coffee with the man, but I am in his employ.

If you are a firefighter who works for the fire chief who works for the mayor who works for the taxpayer, YOU work for the taxpayer. That doesn;'t mean that every taxpayer in your state or municipality can walk in and boss you around, but they are your employers nontheless.

Tell that to the people who call and act all uppity when I tell them that we don’t do what they’re calling us for.

They act like they can walk into Carls Jr. (say, the health department) and order a Big Mac (complain about not getting paid).

Also, I pay taxes too.

BTW, what is that in your sig? It looks like a toy.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Tell that to the people who call and act all uppity when I tell them that we don’t do what they’re calling us for.

They act like they can walk into Carls Jr. (say, the health department) and order a Big Mac (complain about not getting paid).

Also, I pay taxes too.

BTW, what is that in your sig? It looks like a toy.

Its umm, a a space ranger silhouetted against a red background. I put it because I am a little tired of societies condemnation of me because I was born with external plumbing.

WRT being a tax payer. Is your salary larger than your tax withholding?

 

[pnewton]

I think your mislead sir. We don’t work for the tax payers. We are employed to serve the tax payers. Very large difference there.

I do not mislead. I disagree.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Its umm, a a space ranger silhouetted against a red background. I put it because I am a little tired of societies condemnation of me because I was born with external plumbing.

Whatever. I’m cursed with SSA, so it’s irrelevant to me. I might as well have been born with no plumbing.

WRT being a tax payer. Is your salary larger than your tax withholding?

Irrelevant. I’m a working person who is paid for my time and services.

I work, I get paid, taxes are withheld. I go to the store and buy something, I pay the tax.