Three Positive Signs for Obama's Re-Election Chances

  • Thread starter Thread starter irishpatrick
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
rlg94086 said:
What tag teaming? 😛

“Paranoia will destroy ya.” 😃

As far as “dragging politics into” the conversation. Yes, I can see where that would be really odd in a thread titled “Three Positive Signs for Obama’s Re-Election Chances.” 😛

I’m pretty certain people don’t get banned over Catholic doctrine. Otherwise, there are an awful lot of non-Catholics who would have been banned long ago. You may have noticed that there are many who disagree vehemently with the Church regarding “gay marriage,” abortion, papal/magesterial authority, the Trinity, etc.

CAF is fine with posters who disagree with Catholic doctrine, as long as they post charitably and are respectful. You won’t get banned from CAF for being a Democrat.
Click to expand...
You seem to insist on mixing religion and politics. Why one would tarnish gold with brass I really cannot imagine…and no, that does not fit the definition of paranoia, however much you’re enamored of the word.

As regards doctrine, I only go by what I’m told - let’s leave it at that.
 
seekerz said:
You seem to insist on mixing religion and politics. Why one would tarnish gold with brass I really cannot imagine…and no, that does not fit the definition of paranoia, however much you’re enamored of the word.

As regards doctrine, I only go by what I’m told - let’s leave it at that.
Click to expand...
The ‘‘separation of Church and state’’ does not mean - and it can never mean - separating our Catholic faith from our public witness, our political choices and our political actions.

Archbishop Charles aaaaachsput
 
seekerz said:
You seem to insist on mixing religion and politics. Why one would tarnish gold with brass I really cannot imagine…and no, that does not fit the definition of paranoia, however much you’re enamored of the word.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? This is a Catholic forum, and we discuss religion and politics all the time. You do it yourself. I don’t know why you are getting so confused. Do keep your faith completely separate from politics? If so, then you are in error. Our faith is supposed to figure into every aspect of our life.
seekerz said:
You seem to insist on mixing religion and politics. Why one would tarnish gold with brass I really cannot imagine…and no, that does not fit the definition of paranoia, however much you’re enamored of the word.
Click to expand...
I’m not enamored with the word “paranoia.” You are exhibiting the characteristics…first you worry about your “detractors” trying to get you banned; then you claim that we are tag teaming; then you claim we have a strategy. 🤷

It’s just a forum. If you feel ganged up on, it is because there are plenty of people who disagree with you. There are a lot of faithful Catholics on CAF who understand that abortion is equivalent to murder, so they are going to take issue with Catholics who treat it as a minor thing to leave up to individuals to decide whether to kill their innocent, unborn child.
 
More signs of Obama re-election first time unemployment benefit claims were up to over 600,000, retail sales were week, US is losing the war in Afghanistan. Taliban keeps local villagers more secure from narco-kidnapers than government forces.
 
estesbob said:
The ‘‘separation of Church and state’’ does not mean - and it can never mean - separating our Catholic faith from our public witness, our political choices and our political actions.

Archbishop Charles aaaaachsput
Click to expand...
Our faith should shine in every aspect of our lives, but I think you will agree that it is possible to discuss Catholic doctrine without dragging partisan politics into the mix. That’s the point I was trying to make.

To my mind, that insistence on marrying party politics with abortion - is the single greatest reason that keeps more impact from being made in swaying people to the side of life. I may be wrong, but that’s the way I see it.

I’ve worked with people who never thought to mention their pro-life counseling and rescue mission (which I would have gladly supported had I been aware they’d started it), simply because they just looked at me and assumed I could be neither Catholic, nor pro-life. It’s not really the politicians failing us, it’s us failing each other.
 
estesbob said:
A joke that was adressed in 2008:

*To portray the 2008 Democratic Party presidential ticket as the preferred ‘‘prolife’’ option is to subvert what the word ‘‘prolife’’ means. Anyone interested in Senator Obama’s record on abortion and related issues should simply read Prof. Robert P. George’s Public Discourse essay from earlier this week, ‘‘Obama’s Abortion Extremism,’’ and his follow-up article, ‘‘Obama and Infanticide.’’ They say everything that needs to be said.
*

Archbishop Chaput

--------------------

I know pro-abortion Catholics get upset when I quote members of the magisterium. But the truth must be proclaimed
Click to expand...
I like that Archbishop Chaput is specific in his criticism by calling out a specific name, Obama in this case.

It is sad that Catholic Obama voters not only ignore the plight of the unborn but ignore the Bishops comments and the Pope’s comments.
 
rlg94086 said:
What are you talking about? This is a Catholic forum, and we discuss religion and politics all the time. You do it yourself. I don’t know why you are getting so confused. Do keep your faith completely separate from politics? If so, then you are in error. Our faith is supposed to figure into every aspect of our life.

I’m not enamored with the word “paranoia.” You are exhibiting the characteristics…first you worry about your “detractors” trying to get you banned; then you claim that we are tag teaming; then you claim we have a strategy. 🤷

It’s just a forum. If you feel ganged up on, it is because there are plenty of people who disagree with you. There are a lot of faithful Catholics on CAF who understand that abortion is equivalent to murder, so they are going to take issue with Catholics who treat it as a minor thing to leave up to individuals to decide whether to kill their innocent, unborn child.
Click to expand...
I was referring to interchanging religion with politics in the context of the post which we were discussing, not in a general sense. I mentioned Catholic doctrine with reference to getting in trouble and you responded regarding left and right - I’m pretty sure you were talking political ideology and not shoes. 🙂

I’m still not clear on who the ‘we’ are that you are referring to…if the comment doesn’t apply to you then it doesn’t apply to *** you***.
 
seekerz said:
Our faith should shine in every aspect of our lives, but I think you will agree that it is possible to discuss Catholic doctrine without dragging partisan politics into the mix. That’s the point I was trying to make.

.
Click to expand...
Repect for life is not a partisan issue-at least not for Catholics. Abortion is not a “single” issue. it is not a partisan issue, it is an intrinsic evil that a Catholic can never support either directly or indirectly.

There simply is no way one can discuss the re-election prospects of Barrack Obama and not point out thet his support of unresricted taxpayer funded abortion on demands makes him unaccpetable for any Catholic who adheres to the teachings of the Church.
 
_Abyssinia said:
I like that Archbishop Chaput is specific in his criticism by calling out a specific name, Obama in this case.

It is sad that Catholic Obama voters not only ignore the plight of the unborn but ignore the Bishops comments and the Pope’s comments.
Click to expand...
Has the Pope said not to vote for Obama or any pro-choice candidate or did he ask us to prioritize abortion when making a choice?
 
stevegravy said:
More signs of Obama re-election first time unemployment benefit claims were up to over 600,000, retail sales were week, US is losing the war in Afghanistan. Taliban keeps local villagers more secure from narco-kidnapers than government forces.
Click to expand...
49 empty seats at Obama’s speech today;

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/01/120110_biden_chairs_courtesy.jpg

Joe Biden even wondered into one of the empty seats in the back.

politico.com/politico44/2012/01/event-more-for-media-than-ceos-110517.html
 
estesbob said:
Repect for life is not a partisan issue-at least not for Catholics. Abortion is not a “single” issue. it is not a partisan issue, it is an intrinsic evil that a Catholic can never support either directly or indirectly.
Click to expand...
Where did I ever say that respect for life was a partisan issue? Do you follow the thread or simply take individual posts in a vacuum? Far as I can tell, respect for life is sadly lacking right across the political spectrum: it simply changes shape from one end to the next. So in no way do I see it as a partisan issue.
There simply is no way one can discuss the re-election prospects of Barrack Obama and not point out thet his support of unresricted taxpayer funded abortion on demands makes him unaccpetable for any Catholic who adheres to the teachings of the Church.
Click to expand...
Kindly apply your opinion to yourself. You are not the Pope or, to my knowledge, anyone’s confessor so you have no authority to declare “any Catholic”'s decisions of conscience unacceptable.
 
seekerz said:
Where did I ever say that it was. Do you follow the thread or simply take individual posts in a vacuum?

Kindly apply your opinion to yourself. You are not the Pope or, to my knowledge, anyone’s confessor so you have no authority to declare “any Catholic”'s decisions of conscience unacceptable.
Click to expand...
I have posted voluminous Church documentaion supporting what i have said. If you have something from the Church to dispute it please do so.
 
seekerz said:
Has the Pope said not to vote for Obama or any pro-choice candidate or did he ask us to prioritize abortion when making a choice?
Click to expand...
3. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

Pope Benedcit XVI

*“No, you can never vote for someone who favors absolutely what’s called the ‘right to choice’ of a woman to destroy human life in her womb, or the right to a procured abortion,” he said.

“You may in some circumstances where you don’t have any candidate who is proposing to eliminate all abortion, choose the candidate who will most limit this grave evil in our country, but you could never justify voting for a candidate who not only does not want to limit abortion but believes that it should be available to everyone,” he said.*

Cardinal Raymond Burke
 
estesbob said:
3.* Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia.*** For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a** legitimate diversity of opinion** even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty,** but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.**

Pope Benedcit XVI
Click to expand...
Bolded for clarity…(tag)
 
estesbob said:
I have posted voluminous Church documentaion supporting what i have said. If you have something from the Church to dispute it please do so.
Click to expand...
I just did. These decisions are matters of conscience on which we have an obligation to be fully informed. No one has been given the right, nor has the Pope assumed the right to dictate voting decisions to any Catholic.
 
seekerz said:
I just did. These decisions are matters of conscience on which we have an obligation to be fully informed. No one has been given the right, nor has the Pope assumed the right to dictate voting decisions to any Catholic.
Click to expand...
[1785](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1785.htm’)😉 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, *aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55 ***

III. TO CHOOSE IN ACCORD WITH CONSCIENCE
1786 Faced with a moral choice, conscience can make either a right judgment in accordance with reason and the divine law or, on the contrary, an erroneous judgment that departs from them.

[1787](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1787.htm’)😉 Man is sometimes confronted by situations that make moral judgments less assured and decision difficult. But he must always seriously seek what is right and good and discern the will of God expressed in divine law.

[1788](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1788.htm’)😉 To this purpose, man strives to interpret the data of experience and the signs of the times assisted by the virtue of prudence, by the advice of competent people, and by the help of the Holy Spirit and his gifts.

1789 Some rules apply in every case:
  • One may never do evil so that good may result from it; - the Golden Rule: "Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."56
 
estesbob said:
The federal register, whIch lists Federal regulations, is 75,000 pages long and growing on a daily basis. How that indicates a “profound lack of regulation” is beyond me
Click to expand...
75,000 pages of regulations yet it was/is still legally permissible for banks and investment firms to lie about the quality of mortage-backed securities and for firms such as Goldman Sachs to deliberately sabotage their clients’ portfolios for profit; a practice which led directly to the collapse of Bear Sterns.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top