Three Positive Signs for Obama's Re-Election Chances

  • Thread starter Thread starter irishpatrick
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
So in a nutshell you are telling Jewish voters for instance who vote for Democratic Party candidates that they are voting for a Nazi-like holocaust. If I were Jewish that might offend me.
Obama, and the Clintons for that matter, do not support the state of Israel. Now, maybe it will come to the nuclear annihilation one day; maybe not. But the unwillingness to nip Hitler Jr. in the bud should scare every Jew. Somehow, many Jews have bought the nonsense that it is the conservative Republicans who are their enemy. Why even a single Jew would vote for Obama is incomprehensible. :confused: Rob
 
Eloquently put and a courageous statement, particularly on this Forum. The confrontation of one’s faith, reason, individual conscience, and sense of equity with the law of the land is never easy.
Meltzer, thank you for your kind words. Feel free to pray for me.
 
Obama, and the Clintons for that matter, do not support the state of Israel. Now, maybe it will come to the nuclear annihilation one day; maybe not. But the unwillingness to nip Hitler Jr. in the bud should scare every Jew. Somehow, many Jews have bought the nonsense that it is the conservative Republicans who are their enemy. Why even a single Jew would vote for Obama is incomprehensible. :confused: Rob
I live in an area with a rather large Jewsh population and all I know is many of them support the party the Obamas and Clintons belong to.
 
I am quite surprised you say you do not know since I have addressed this before and I would have been almost certain you were a participant on such a thread.

But for your benefit I would again say that living in a democratic society of pIural beliefs I have struggled a great deal throughout my life trying to balance the rights of the unborn with the legal rights of women on this issue.

And upon much prayer and the use of my rational mind (thank you btw), it is still not simply a black and white issue to me. And thus on this one particular issue I currently separate my personal religious and faith beliefs from what is now legal under the law of the land in a democracy of plural beliefs.

At the moment I am still uneasy beyond current law to force by mandate onto others my faith beliefs as to when human life with a soul begins and when personhood rights should begin. I am not yet comfortable making it illegal for a woman to choose in cases of rape or incest or illegal for her to choose to save her life.

We have had a law of the land for nearly 40 yrs now. It allows for restrictions. I have voted to restrict minors for instance from being able to obtain a legal abortion without parental notification. Subject to a judicial “out” in cases where the minor could be threatened with harm by her parents if they were notified.

So at this time I strive for some common ground. And since it is legal with restrictions allowed, safe but rare seems like a rational place to me to start. And I turn my attention then to the many other issues I as a pro life voter must ponder, consider, and pray upon.

Frankly this one issue is not something in which I have ever singularly based my voting on. And I certainly have never said, oh this candidate is pro choice so I am going to vote for him or her. There are always plenty of other differences between the candidates which I weigh and pray upon.

Abortion is an important issue but perfection is not on earth. There will always be some satisfied with and others unhappy with a particular earthly law. And so I do not believe the focus of a democratic society of plural beliefs on abortion should be such then that it occurs at the expense and detriment of a multitude of other life issues in which I believe Jesus at least as much directly addressed.
Without the right to life all other rights are meaningless. Any “plural” belief that allows for kiling children is evil hiding behind the facade of 'plurality".
 
I am quite surprised you say you do not know since I have addressed this before and I would have been almost certain you were a participant on such a thread.

But for your benefit I would again say that living in a democratic society of pIural beliefs I have struggled a great deal throughout my life trying to balance the rights of the unborn with the legal rights of women on this issue.

And upon much prayer and the use of my rational mind (thank you btw), it is still not simply a black and white issue to me. And thus on this one particular issue I currently separate my personal religious and faith beliefs from what is now legal under the law of the land in a democracy of plural beliefs.

At the moment I am still uneasy beyond current law to force by mandate onto others my faith beliefs as to when human life with a soul begins and when personhood rights should begin. I am not yet comfortable making it illegal for a woman to choose in cases of rape or incest or illegal for her to choose to save her life.

We have had a law of the land for nearly 40 yrs now. It allows for restrictions. I have voted to restrict minors for instance from being able to obtain a legal abortion without parental notification. Subject to a judicial “out” in cases where the minor could be threatened with harm by her parents if they were notified.

So at this time I strive for some common ground. And since it is legal with restrictions allowed, safe but rare seems like a rational place to me to start. And I turn my attention then to the many other issues I as a pro life voter must ponder, consider, and pray upon.

Frankly this one issue is not something in which I have ever singularly based my voting on. And I certainly have never said, oh this candidate is pro choice so I am going to vote for him or her. There are always plenty of other differences between the candidates which I weigh and pray upon.

Abortion is an important issue but perfection is not on earth. There will always be some satisfied with and others unhappy with a particular earthly law. And so I do not believe the focus of a democratic society of plural beliefs on abortion should be such then that it occurs at the expense and detriment of a multitude of other life issues in which I believe Jesus at least as much directly addressed.
On the one hand, we might have a woman who truly wants an abortion and is not forced or cajoled into it by such persons as spouses, boyfriends, parents, etc, but can’t get one. On the other hand we have a dead child. Death always outweighs disappointments.

At no time did Jesus talk about state welfare policies. He did talk about giving to the poor. But since Obama has done nothing to improve the lot of the truly poor anyway, there is no arguable moral issue on the other side of the “scale” from the killing of innocents.

Abortion in the U.S. is essentially unrestricted except at the margins. Certainly when it comes to an adult, there are no restrictions at all. That is the result of the decision, not of a society, but of one man…just one…the deciding vote on the S.C. And is there some compelling reason when a whole society should honor the will of one man when the majority in that society is not in agreement with it, and when the man simply invented a “right” to kill not granted by God or man (the Constitution in the latter case)?

Life and death are very much “black and white” issues. One is either alive or one is not.
There’s no “gray” to that.

“Safe but rare” is not going to happen, either as to the “safe” or to the “rare”, and experience demonstrates it. Is 50 million “rare”? No one can reasonably assert that it is.
 
Eloquently put and a courageous statement, particularly on this Forum. The confrontation of one’s faith, reason, individual conscience, and sense of equity with the law of the land is never easy.
Code:
 Individual conscience is overrated. We are human and limited, subject to rationalization. The fact is that thanks to liberal socialist policies, MORE children are raised in single parent families, or have no parent at all. Many of those who HAVE parents are neglected, with mom and dad at bars or crack houses. 
 The fact that so many good Americans vote for Democrats and Republicans who SOUND compassionate has led to the mutilations of millions more children than otherwise would have occurred. If a candidate is ashamed to stand up for standards and the sanctity of human life, more children will die as a result. And believe me, most of these people don't care a whit about YOU either. 
 For example, Obama had millions of people swooning with their own individual visions of hope and change. Yet, if we examine reality, his brother George in Kenya lives in dank poverty, and Barack hasn't seen fit to give the guy a nickel out of his own pocket. Yeah, he cares about us!! Only insofar as our votes will help him to retain his power. :nope: Rob
 
I live in an area with a rather large Jewsh population and all I know is many of them support the party the Obamas and Clintons belong to.
I know that you are right, but I think it is bizarre. It is my hope that many of them take the blinders off one day. If a guy (Obama) demanding that Israel return to its 1967 borders doesn't shake them to their cores, I don't know what will. :) Rob
 
For example, Obama had millions of people swooning with their own individual visions of hope and change. Yet, if we examine reality, his brother George in Kenya lives in dank poverty, and Barack hasn’t seen fit to give the guy a nickel out of his own pocket. Yeah, he cares about us!! Only insofar as our votes will help him to retain his power. :nope: Rob
This.

I’ve heard him promote the “brotherhood of man” and see how he treats his own brother and I have to ask if that’s how he treats his own brother whatever would he care for anyone else’s.
 
Obama, and the Clintons for that matter, do not support the state of Israel. Now, maybe it will come to the nuclear annihilation one day; maybe not. But the unwillingness to nip Hitler Jr. in the bud should scare every Jew. Somehow, many Jews have bought the nonsense that it is the conservative Republicans who are their enemy. Why even a single Jew would vote for Obama is incomprehensible. :confused: Rob
I presume you’re referring to Ahmadinejad. Don’t worry; at the rate Obama is going, we may indeed go to war with Iran. Santorum is also itching for yet another war, and Romney appears to be considering breaking off trade relations with China. All in all, we’re really in good shape on both sides of the aisle.

Like Catholics, Jews are not monolithic in their political views. The more Orthodox often vote conservative, whereas the less Orthodox tend to vote liberal, but this too is a generalization. Also, Jews are, by and large, not single-issue voters. While Israel is important for many Jews, there are other issues of importance to them as well. Abortion is, for the most part, not an issue high on the list for Jews. I’ve never thought of Conservative Republicans as the enemy of Israeli or American Jews; but, on the whole, I don’t agree much with their economic philosophy or social policies.
 
I am rather bored of seeing Catholics try to defend their vote for Obama. The fact that you need to defend it, shows you something is wrong. I don’t need to defend my support for any of the Republican nominees, because I know whoever the nominee is, by far, conforms with the non negotiable guidelines for voting set out by the Church, more than Obama.

You can keep trying top excuse your support for Obama by making excuses, by saying oh I am not a one voter issue. Neither are orthodox Catholics - we look at Obama, and we see a range of his policies that are not in keeping with Catholic teaching, refusal to defend marriage between a man and a woman, (the defense of marriage a man and a woman was a called a non negotiable by Pope Benedict), the refusal to defend the unborn, the forcing of Catholics and Catholic hospitals and other Catholic institutions to cover contraception and other abortificants in their health insurance leading to condemnation of such plans by various Bishops.

Church teaching is the basis of my judgment on who to support politically - not party politics.
 
Individual conscience is overrated. We are human and limited, subject to rationalization. The fact is that thanks to liberal socialist policies, MORE children are raised in single parent families, or have no parent at all. Many of those who HAVE parents are neglected, with mom and dad at bars or crack houses.
The fact that so many good Americans vote for Democrats and Republicans who SOUND compassionate has led to the mutilations of millions more children than otherwise would have occurred. If a candidate is ashamed to stand up for standards and the sanctity of human life, more children will die as a result. And believe me, most of these people don’t care a whit about YOU either.
For example, Obama had millions of people swooning with their own individual visions of hope and change. Yet, if we examine reality, his brother George in Kenya lives in dank poverty, and Barack hasn’t seen fit to give the guy a nickel out of his own pocket. Yeah, he cares about us!! Only insofar as our votes will help him to retain his power. :nope: Rob
I was not an Obama supporter in the Democratic primary; I supported Hillary, which I’m sure will endear me even more to you and other Conservatives on this thread! But I did vote for Obama in the general election rather than McCain and his top-notch running mate. So I’m under no illusion that any of these politicians personally cares about me or you. However, let’s hope the person elected can do some good for the country as a whole on the economic and foreign policy fronts.
 
How can any signs of Obama’s be re-elected be described as “positive” on a Catholic forum?:confused:
 
What proportionate reasons would allow a Catholic to vote for Obama in spite of his suport of unrestricted yaxpayer abortion on demand?
Maybe they do not truly believe life begins at conception?
 
I presume you’re referring to Ahmadinejad. Don’t worry; at the rate Obama is going, we may indeed go to war with Iran. Santorum is also itching for yet another war, and Romney appears to be considering breaking off trade relations with China. All in all, we’re really in good shape on both sides of the aisle.

Like Catholics, Jews are not monolithic in their political views. The more Orthodox often vote conservative, whereas the less Orthodox tend to vote liberal, but this too is a generalization. Also, Jews are, by and large, not single-issue voters. While Israel is important for many Jews, there are other issues of importance to them as well. Abortion is, for the most part, not an issue high on the list for Jews. I’ve never thought of Conservative Republicans as the enemy of Israeli or American Jews; but, on the whole, I don’t agree much with their economic philosophy or social policies.
Acquiescence to bullies leads to conflict. Remember WWII? Santorum and I are believers in peace through strength. As Reagan used to say, weakness only leads to the "peace of the grave". :knight2: Rob
 
So in a nutshell you are telling Jewish voters for instance who vote for Democratic Party candidates that they are voting for a Nazi-like holocaust. If I were Jewish that might offend me.
Abortion is a holocaust, on a greater scale.

42 million a year, it is like 8 holocausts happening every year.

Would you have voted for Hitler (for his stance on fixing the economy), despite his support of genocide?

God forbid, you become a single issue voter, after all genocide is only one of the social justice issues :roll eyes:

An unborn child is of the same worth, and dignity as any born human being.
42 million per year is 8 times the amount of jews killed in the holocaust (by orthodox statistics), and so you will vote for a man who has supported this new genocide, only because he supports other issues.
 
Acquiescence to bullies leads to conflict. Remember WWII? Santorum and I are believers in peace through strength. As Reagan used to say, weakness only leads to the “peace of the grave”. :knight2: Rob
Peace through strength is one thing, and I believe in that. But peace through war is quite another thing. The way Santorum is talking, it sounds to me he’s ready to engage in war with Iran. I realize, however, that once a candidate is elected, they often change their tune, in a hurry.
 
I live in an area with a rather large Jewsh population and all I know is many of them support the party the Obamas and Clintons belong to.
I have to agree with you here. Since I know, through marriage, a great number of Jews, I can testify that very few are conservative and they love Clinton and Obama. They are more mindful of the actual events of the holocaust to throw these references around lightly. It’s embarrassing that it is used as an adjective around these forums.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top