Three Principals For Honoring Your Husband

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Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Would women even be educated in this ideal world that you imagine?
What would be the point in a society where they could never use such knewledge?

After all, illiterate women are even easier to relegate to the domestic sphere (and that is part of your ideal).
Dear AngryAtheist,

Hello again and thankyou for the above.

Unfortunately we do not live in and ideal world, dear friend, so your remarks of above are purely conjectural and unhelpful to the topic currently under review.

There is nothing wrong with a women being educated and having a degree. An unmarried women can pursue a career until and if she enters into wedlock.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
True, but I am asking you to imagine your vision of an ideal world (surely you can engage in such a mental exercise) and tell me whether or not women would be educated in that world?
Would there be any point in a world where women would have virtually no opportunity to put an education to good use?
 
Dear Baelor,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response above.

Indeed, dear bother, there are some things that are self-evident and one such thing is that women are simply not adapted to undertake certain tasks owing to their physical frame. Even St. Peter refers to women as the “weaker sex” (I Pet. 3: 7). Their natural physical weakness is undeniable and requires no verification.

As regards women fighting on the front line in war zones, apart from any moral considerations, that fact that they are the “weaker sex” does not not make them very suited to such an enviroment and all the rigours that accompany it. Moreover, the woman’s male collegues would be continually feeling protective of her, male chivalry has not cmpletely died out, dear friend. Clearly, this would be problematic in a war zone and could endanger the lives of others. Many, my dear friend, would deem this to be evidence enough, asside from the fact that it is utterly unethical to put the fairer sex in such situations. The godless clamour by some today to allow women to fight in zones close the enemy, is acutated politcally correct idealogy and fanatical views of equality. Catholics should give such ungodly thinking a jolly wide-berth.

The priesthood and religious are indeed exceptions, as is the case of those who will never marry for one reason or another, and this I have not denied. However, dear friend, this in no way undercuts the truth that it was God’s intention for men and women to enter into holy wedlock for mutual companionship and for procreation. The text in Genesis which states that it is not good for man to be alone underscores this truth and was, in fact, the basis for the institution of marriage in the frist place.

The acceptable reasons for a women remaining single would be that she simply does not meet some chap with whom she ever becomes romantically involved, or she is called to the religious life. The same reasons would apply to a man, with the addition that he might be called to the priesthood. At any rate, Catholics have never defended the modern notion of women defering marriage and starting a family just so they can selfishly pursue a career, that, my dear borther, is both un-Catholic and unbiblical and is by product of radical femenism.

An obligation is laid upon you to recieve biblical teaching that has perpetual validity, for even the Holy Mother Church cannot trump the timesless teaching of Sacred Scripture, nor would they ever dream of doing so. Moreover, St. Paul’s words in Titus 2: 5 do not occur in some metaphorical context, thus they ought to be taken literally, unless there is good reason to do otherwise. As someone has said, “when the literal sense makes good sense be careful not to make it nonesense” - wise counsel indeed. St. Paul is giving very practical instructions to the womenfolk and his words about them being “workers at home” occur amidst other requirements such as loving husbands and children, being sensible, chaste, kind and submissive to husbands. None of this has been abrogated and remains binding upon those who profess godliness, including the requirement to be “workers at home”.
An obligation is laid upon a man to provide for and support his family, my dear friend. This is a truth and so one can never state it to often - “If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever” (I Tim. 5: 8). Of course there may be cases where, owing to severe health problems, a man cannot be the breadwinner and in that case the woman will have to work, but this is not normative.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
Saint Paul also explicitly endorsed slavery.
Does that mean that we should support* that *institution?:rolleyes:
 
Dear Litcrit,

Cordail greetings and a very good day.

True, the Greek can be interpreted/translated in various ways, but the context in which the passage occurs must also help us to determine the correct interpretation. As far as I am aware, dear friend, most orthodox exegetes have elucidated the words as “workers at home”.

However, dear friend, I think if we turn to I Tim 5: 13-14 we actually find that the two interpretations are combined and do not necessarily exclude one another. St. Paul says that younger widows can fall into the habit of being “gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not” and so he would have them “marry, bear children, rule their own households”. Thus because there is this tendency to gossip and be busybodies, they should marry, start a family and manage their households. In St. Paul, then, being a gossip/busybody and “ruling households” are distinguished and so that helps us in arriving at a correct understanding of Titus 2: 5. and “workers at home”.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
And how does that square with the view you have endorsed that women shouldn’t have any leadership role in the family (such positions being reserved for men)?:rolleyes:
 
Originally Posted by OurBeloved
I don’t think Portrait is saying that a husband who is paralyzed should still provide for the family. The wife in this case will have to provide but it would be unfortunate since the children will have no one.
THe children wouldn’t have “no one”. They would have their father, who happens to be paralysed.
Apparently according to O.B.'s logic he doesn’t count:shrug:
 
I’m sure there are many paralized moms out there doing a fantastic job too. The kids would not have no one if mom worked and dad was at home (paralized). I agree.

This thread is quite anti-women and anti-men…very contradictory to what JPII said about women. Why are men being judged as not being emotionally able to love and care for their children?
I suspect because it provides an excuse for making women completely responsible for childcare.
 
AA8,

I’m still sure Portraits opinion is more nuanced than you are trying to make it out to be. I still disagree with his position and have given my reasons as to why I believe the church also disagrees. However I highly doubt he believes that his position requires many of the things you are implying that it does. How is accusing him of things he is not going to admit to helpful?
 
I’m going to have my girlfriend read this… Thank you so much. :extrahappy:
 
No one I know has argued that women on average are physically weaker than men, or even that this tendency is not natural. The problem with your reasoning is that it does not make sense. You have not provided a compelling reason that because women in general are physically weaker, no women should do X.

Again, it does not follow that because women are generally weaker physically no women should be fighting in war zones. The military already has protocol for determining suitability for active duty that addresses this issue. The fact that men are not the weaker sex does not mean that every man should be allowed to serve in the military, I am sure you agree. The same reasoning applies to the case of women.

Have you been on active duty with all the women in the military in the last, say, two years?

But in some cases it is good for men to be alone, such as when vocations to the priesthood or a calling to single life (not necessary religious) apply.
The acceptable reasons for a women remaining single would be that she simply does not meet some chap with whom she ever becomes romantically involved, or she is called to the religious life. The same reasons would apply to a man, with the addition that he might be called to the priesthood.[/qutoe]
 
Portrait, in case you missed it this is my argument against a literal interpretation of that scripture passage as meaning that every wife must stay at home and every husband must be the breadwinner regardless of the actual differences between the particular man and woman.
Sorry about my last post, somehow I messed up and put what I was saying in the middle of what I was trying to quote…

I was trying to say that again I agree with Baelor. And add support by mentioning the fact that St. Thomas, the Angelic doctor, places a huge emphasis both on the use of reason to help our faith and in expanding and explaining our faith, and the fact that God works according to the real existing natures of His creation. Yes, He can also work outside of this framework, but He created things with the natures and qualities He did for a reason. Also, St. Thomas often uses as a principle that the nature determines the operation of things. In other words, the way we act, and are meant to act, is dependent on our real existing natures, and so, leads one to the aforementioned conclusion that differences in the role, or operation, of the genders is based upon real existing differences between them. If you don’t like this principle Portrait, take it up with St. Thomas.🤷
The point being that if you interpret this passage the way you are you end up denying principles that are ** fundamental** to the philosophy and theology of St. Thomas who is, and has always been held up as a theologian extraordinaire. If you wish to deny some of St Thomas’ most fundamental principles and so lead to the conclusion that his theology is fundamentally flawed despite the fact that it is and has always been held up by the church as the go-to theology, be my guest, but realize the consequences that follow from his position.

As tothe question of women in the military, I see that you have nit yet addressed the case of St Joan of Arc. I am curious as to how you explain away her role in the military?
 
If “women are on average weaker than men” then it surely follows, dear friend, that there will be some tasks that will be too dificult and onerous for them to perform. Thus my reasoning makes perfect sense, since that is just a simple fact of life.
No, it does not. The fact that women in general are weaker does not mean that they should be prohibited from “too difficult and onerous tasks,” only that one may expect (given a normal distribution of strength) that fewer women than men will meet the requirements of particular jobs. In other words, why not take the women who are strong enough to serve in the military and not the ones who are not?

You still have not explained why women should be categorically denied access to certain professions. That reasoning makes no sense whatsoever, and the fact that this is not obvious to you is truly baffling.
Women are not suited to combat zones since their physical and psychological make-up is just not designed to function in such a harsh setting.
Could you substantiate this with data or studies? That is, please demonstrate to us that all women “are not suited to combat zones” etc., because in order to deny women access to the military, one would need evidence demonstrating that every single woman ever is incapable of serving.
True, many men will not be deemed fit to serve in the Armed Forces, but that is simply because they are not made of the right sort of stuff, not because of their gender.
Okay, that makes perfect sense. It is obviously impossible that there are different personalities and dispositions among men, but not among women.
Women are simply not adapted to such an environment and neither should they attempt to adapt to it. The whole of Catholic tradition, dear friend, would militate stongly against women being in the military, Joan of Arc was a unique firgure and cannot be used as some template for women generally - rare cases make bad law.
Joan of Arc was not a unique figure. She was an individual and a woman who was capable of serving in the military. This is exactly how the military should be approached: on the basis of individuals. Those strong enough to withstand military duty should be permitted to serve, and as you yourself admit, some women (e.g. Joan of Arc) are capable of serving.
What is aberrant is a woman making a deliberate choice either to defer marriage or to never marry at all, so she can selfishly pursue a career and find her fulfillment that way.
What is not aberrant is a woman recognizing that she can best serve God’s will as a single woman.
Traditional Catholicism would never have warmly approved such a choice but would have considered it self-seeking and jolly un-Catholic. The finest way for a woman to glorify God is by entering into wedlock and raising godly offspring for the next generation.
Source?
Of course there is an obligation, my dear chap, for a man to work and and support his family. Moreover, that text from I Timothy 5: 8 should be interpreted literally as there is no valid reason to interpret it otherwise - “when the literal sense makes good sense be careful to not make it nonesense”. The only exception that I can see is where a man is so indisposed that he cannot be the breadwinner. In that case, the woman will probably have to work if circumstances permit, but again that exeception cannot be applied to families where the man is able and capable - the maxim, rare cases make bad law, applies again.
We need not follow everything that everyone says in the Bible literally. The Church has never taught this.
 
AA8,

I’m still sure Portraits opinion is more nuanced than you are trying to make it out to be. I still disagree with his position and have given my reasons as to why I believe the church also disagrees. However I highly doubt he believes that his position requires many of the things you are implying that it does. How is accusing him of things he is not going to admit to helpful?
No, not really.
Portrait has fully or partially endorsed all those relatively misogynistic positions in this thread. Probably the best example of him doing so is the post below (from earlier in the thread):

May 3, '12, 12:21 pm
Portrait
Regular Member Join Date: July 21, 2009
Posts: 1,355
Religion: Catholic

Re: Three Principals For Honoring Your Husband

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8

Source:
catholicplanet.com/women/roles.html

Do you support the idea that women’s economic, political, and social power should be stripped away (as the author advocates) so that being wives and mothers is their only viable option or not?

Dear AngryAtheist,

Hello again.

It is certainly true, my dear friend, that Catholics can become so imbued with the spirit of the age that “truth will not feel right” and that because Church teaching and dogma is at variance with the prevailing culture it will be rejected almost uncritically. Thus I would wholeheartedly endorse what Mr. Conte says as regards that, for I myself am continually saying much the same thing on CAF. There is a tendency among modern Catholics to reject anything that preceded the day before yesterday as being of little value and as having nothing to say to the modern age.

The roles of men and women are becoming very blurred these days and our post-modern society, in its fanatical obssession with equality and the elimination of ‘sexism’, is trying to obliterate the God-given distinction between men and women. There surely needs to be a radical rethink on the place of women in society and what sort of occupations can realistically be open to them. Incontrovertibly, women soldiers, for example, fighting on the frontline is a most unacceptable and distasteful instance of fanatical gender blurring to fit in with political correct idelology. As for women leaders of religion, well the Catholic Church forbids women from entering the priesthood, and thus the hierarchy, and that is a source of indignation to some, especially liberal Catholics, who feel it is discriminatory in today’s world where women are entering so many occupations that have previously been the preserve of men.

Mr Conte is correct in stating, dear friend, that God assigns different roles for men and women in Church, family and society. Ideally, women are to enter into holy wedlock and be devoted to their husbands and raising godly offspring for the next generation. God has indeed given women the role of instructing and guiding children, for this is what motherhood entails. It used to be said in bygone days, that children learned first about God and Christ’s religion upon their mother’s knee. How true is that today?

Not permitting women to enter politics or the judiciary is, I agree, rather radical stuff to us living in the 21st century, but I think even here the chap has a point. These high powered jobs carry an overwhelming amount of responsibility and women holding these positions just do not sit comfortably with St. Paul’s teaching. Perhaps we do need to think the unthinkable today and reassess the whole direction in which modern society is presently moving. What will all this end in and will even ordinary ‘moderate’ people like that end when it arrives? Will there be much regret and will men start to see the light when it is too late to reverse things?

The writer is correct in regarding wives being submissive and obedient to their husbands, for that is basic biblical teaching (Eph. 5: 22; Col. 3: 18). If that is erroneous, then St. Paul was in error in stating it and is, indeed, guilty of being ‘mysoginistic’ - something which some people are not ashamed to affirm to support their liberal viewpoint.

As for women being Lectors at Mass, reading Sacred Scripture or being exrtaordinary ministers, these are issues about which pious Catholics entertain differing opinions.

In all fairness to Mr. Conte, he does state on the home page of his site “that most of my theological writings are speculative, rather than dogmatic. Also, many of the ideas expressed on this site are a matter of pious disagreement among faithful Catholics”. That to my mind, dear friend, seems jolly balanced and charitable. Really, my dear friend, do not think that Ron Conte is saying anything dreadful or sinister like that, although I will conceded that some things are a bit radical, at least by today’s standards. In any event, he is at liberty to ventilate his opinions, just as you and I are, dear friend, but we do not have to accept them.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

Three things are necessary for the salvation of man: to know what he ought to believe; to know what he ought to desire; and to know what he ought to do - St. Thomas Aquinas
 
Baelor;9257466:
No one I know has argued that women on average are physically weaker than men, or even that this tendency is not natural. The problem with your reasoning is that it does not make sense. You have not provided a compelling reason that because women in general are physically weaker, no women should do X.

Again, it does not follow that because women are generally weaker physically no women should be fighting in war zones. The military already has protocol for determining suitability for active duty that addresses this issue. The fact that men are not
the weaker sex does not mean that every man should be allowed to serve in the military, I am sure you agree. The same reasoning applies to the case of women.

Have you been on active duty with all the women in the military in the last, say, two years?

But in some cases it is good for men to be alone, such as when vocations to the priesthood or a calling to single life (not necessary religious) apply.

Dear Baelor,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your reply.

If “women are on average weaker than men” then it surely follows, dear friend, that there will be some tasks that will be too dificult and onerous for them to perform. Thus my reasoning makes perfect sense, since that is just a simple fact of life.

Women are not suited to combat zones since their physical and psychological make-up is just not designed to function in such a harsh setting. True, many men will not be deemed fit to serve in the Armed Forces, but that is simply because they are not made of the right sort of stuff, not because of their gender. Women are simply not adapted to such an environment and neither should they attempt to adapt to it. The whole of Catholic tradition, dear friend, would militate stongly against women being in the military, Joan of Arc was a unique firgure and cannot be used as some template for women generally - rare cases make bad law.

The women currently on ‘active duty’ are not engaged, as far as I am aware, in close combat with the enemy, thus that does not tell us anything, dear friend. However, army personnel have been interviewed about this sort of thing and say that they would feel protective for their female collegues, which could present a serious risk to others. It seems that men cannot rid themselves of this God-given instinct to protect the fairer sex and this ought to tell us something. No amount of politcally correct or femenist idelology can change what is built into a chaps psycological make-up and bless God for that, I say. Chivalrous conduct in men cannot be erradicated, even though some equality fanatics wish it to be so.

The Church is not required to teach an obvious fact of life, such as that some women will never marry for one reason or another. However, God’s intention was that men and women marry for mutual companionship and procreation. If it is not good for a man to be alone then it is certainly not good for a women to be alone either. Some are given a special charism for vocations and the priesthood, but otherwise marriage is the norm. **What is aberrant is a woman making a deliberate choice either to defer marriage or to never marry at all, so she can selfishly pursue a career and find her fulfillment that way. ** Traditional Catholicism would never have warmly approved such a choice but would have considered it self-seeking and jolly un-Catholic. The finest way for a woman to glorify God is by entering into wedlock and raising godly offspring for the next generation. That is surely an urgent need in today’s irrelgious culture.

Of course there is an obligation, my dear chap, for a man to work and and support his family. Moreover, that text from I Timothy 5: 8 should be interpreted literally as there is no valid reason to interpret it otherwise - “when the literal sense makes good sense be careful to not make it nonesense”. The only exception that I can see is where a man is so indisposed that he cannot be the breadwinner. In that case, the woman will probably have to work if circumstances permit, but again that exeception cannot be applied to families where the man is able and capable - the maxim, rare cases make bad law, applies again.

Baelor, my dear brother, this will be my final post for now as it is my custom to take a breather from the boards at weekends. Thus may I wish you and all other contributors a jolly splendid weekend, whatever you plan to do. Since Monday is a public holiday, I will, DV, be back on the forums on Tuesday next and will respond to any posts then.

God bless you, dearly beloved friends.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait:tiphat:

Pax

According to your logic, women’s virtue is dependent on whether or not they breed.

Tell me, if a childless single female doctor saved your life or the life of someone that you loved, would you consider her a bad person because she was making no apparent effort to settle down and have babies?
 
Dear AngryAtheist,

Hello again and thankyou for the above.

Unfortunately we do not live in and ideal world, dear friend, so your remarks of above are purely conjectural and unhelpful to the topic currently under review.

There is nothing wrong with a women being educated and having a degree. An unmarried women can pursue a career until and if she enters into wedlock.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Pax
Portrait

Dear Portrait -
If things went the way you mention you believe they should be, then say a woman becomes a doctor - goes to school for years - as well as a residency - then she decides to get married - you believe that at that point she should just quit her job or that when she has kids she should just quit - am I understanding you correctly? Even if her husband doesn’t have as lucrative or beneficial a career as she does (and is willing to take care of the kids) - you really believe she should stop being a doctor (or nurse or attorney or accountant) in order to raise the kids. Just give it all up? That’s just ludicrus - I mean even Saint Gianna was a doctor and wife and mother - obviously she did really well.
Why does it have to be either or? Why don’t you believe it can be both? In my
God Bless,
Rye
 
Portrait

Dear Portrait -
If things went the way you mention you believe they should be, then say a woman becomes a doctor - goes to school for years - as well as a residency - then she decides to get married - you believe that at that point she should just quit her job or that when she has kids she should just quit - am I understanding you correctly? Even if her husband doesn’t have as lucrative or beneficial a career as she does (and is willing to take care of the kids) - you really believe she should stop being a doctor (or nurse or attorney or accountant) in order to raise the kids. Just give it all up? That’s just ludicrus - I mean even Saint Gianna was a doctor and wife and mother - obviously she did really well.
Why does it have to be either or? Why don’t you believe it can be both? In my
God Bless,
Rye
You can have both honey! Just don’t pay attention to it!

John of Arc - Patron Saint of Service Women (i.e. women in the army)
St. Gianna - you know her story 🙂
 
Ladies,

Just a side note, these threads can be very disconserting to those of us that have an education, a career, an at home husband, etc. Don’t let it be!!! Pope JP II is extremely supportive of mothers who also work and contribute to society. He canonized St. Gianna (for saving her baby), but she was also a doctor, a mother and a pillar of society for other mothers.

Never feel the need to become an “apologist” for women. We should never need to apologize for being a mother and having a career.

If you are a loving, kind, nurturing wife and mother, then you are doing God’s work and you a teaching love. Mother Teresa once answered this question: “You want to spread world peace, do home and love your families.”

So, instead of feeling guilty and defensive, concentrate on loving your family. That’s all God wants of you. Spread and speak kindness and your children will grow into lovely human beings. That is our power as women!
 
Portrait

Dear Portrait -
If things went the way you mention you believe they should be, then say a woman becomes a doctor - goes to school for years - as well as a residency - then she decides to get married - you believe that at that point she should just quit her job or that when she has kids she should just quit - am I understanding you correctly? Even if her husband doesn’t have as lucrative or beneficial a career as she does (and is willing to take care of the kids) - you really believe she should stop being a doctor (or nurse or attorney or accountant) in order to raise the kids. Just give it all up? That’s just ludicrus - I mean even Saint Gianna was a doctor and wife and mother - obviously she did really well.
Why does it have to be either or? Why don’t you believe it can be both? In my
God Bless,
Rye
Dear ryecroft,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response above and please forgive the delay in replying, but yesterday in the UK was a public holiday so I was otherwise engaged.

Traditionally, dear friend, when a Catholic women entered into wedlock it was usual for her to relinquish her occupation and become a full-time housewife and mother. This in itself is a full-time job, hence the old adage ‘a woman’s work is never done’, thus the strain and stress of simultaneously working and being a homemaker is considerable and puts a women under enormous pressure. In any event, this is an unnatural set up as His intention was for a women to gratefullly receive the divinely ordained role of motherhood (see I Tim. 5: 14; Titus 2: 4). Indeed, it is by accepting her proper sphere that a woman fulfills her true destiny - “Woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty” (I Tim. 2: 15).

As regards St.Gianni, it is quite true that she did harmonize the arduous demands of motherhood with being a doctor, but she regarded the field of medicine as a ‘mission’ and so probably received special divine grace to combine the two effectively. However, this is unique and we cannot use, for polemical purposes, the case of St. Gianni as a template to justify a wholesale departure from the norm of married women being “workers at home”. That, my dear friend, is just plain disengenuous. That she was both holy and heroic admits of no doubt, but I do not think that she should be used to support the case of those who defend the right of married women to work.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
As I said before, that is one of the most obviously biased readings of an important document that I have come across:rolleyes:
Dear AngryAtheist,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

That, my dear friend, is very subjective statement, since I could say that your own understanding of this document is “obviously biased”, based upon your own pre-conceived notions regarding the role and place of women in contemporary society. That said, I believe that my reading of a ‘A Letter to Women’ is, in fact, perfectly reasonable, even if others disagree profoundly with it.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
So Portrait would also think that Joan of Arc was also an anomily and that women should not see her as a template if they wish to join the army.

EVEN though, Joan of Arc was designated as the patron saint of women in the service.

Well, I’m glad I didn’t marry Portrait 😃
 
Dear ryecroft,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response above and please forgive the delay in replying, but yesterday in the UK was a public holiday so I was otherwise engaged.

Traditionally, dear friend, when a Catholic women entered into wedlock it was usual for her to relinquish her occupation and become a full-time housewife and mother. This in itself is a full-time job, hence the old adage ‘a woman’s work is never done’, thus the strain and stress of simultaneously working and being a homemaker is considerable and puts a women under enormous pressure. In any event, this is an unnatural set up as His intention was for a women to gratefullly receive the divinely ordained role of motherhood (see I Tim. 5: 14; Titus 2: 4). Indeed, it is by accepting her proper sphere that a woman fulfills her true destiny - “Woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty” (I Tim. 2: 15).

As regards St.Gianni, it is quite true that she did harmonize the arduous demands of motherhood with being a doctor, but she regarded the field of medicine as a ‘mission’ and so probably received special divine grace to combine the two effectively. However, this is unique and we cannot use, for polemical purposes, the case of St. Gianni as a template to justify a wholesale departure from the norm of married women being “workers at home”. That, my dear friend, is just plain disengenuous. That she was both holy and heroic admits of no doubt, but I do not think that she should be used to support the case of those who defend the right of married women to work.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
LOL:D

Somehow I knew you would say something like that Portrait (assuming you addressed the point at all).

Just because the Catholic Church named a female doctor as a saint, doesn’t mean that Catholicism approves of female doctors (or women becoming doctors at least):rolleyes:
 
Dear ryecroft,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response above and please forgive the delay in replying, but yesterday in the UK was a public holiday so I was otherwise engaged.

Traditionally, dear friend, when a Catholic women entered into wedlock it was usual for her to relinquish her occupation and become a full-time housewife and mother. This in itself is a full-time job, hence the old adage ‘a woman’s work is never done’, thus the strain and stress of simultaneously working and being a homemaker is considerable and puts a women under enormous pressure. In any event, this is an unnatural set up as His intention was for a women to gratefullly receive the divinely ordained role of motherhood (see I Tim. 5: 14; Titus 2: 4). Indeed, it is by accepting her proper sphere that a woman fulfills her true destiny - “Woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty” (I Tim. 2: 15).

As regards St.Gianni, it is quite true that she did harmonize the arduous demands of motherhood with being a doctor, but she regarded the field of medicine as a ‘mission’ and so probably received special divine grace to combine the two effectively. However, this is unique and we cannot use, for polemical purposes, the case of St. Gianni as a template to justify a wholesale departure from the norm of married women being “workers at home”. That, my dear friend, is just plain disengenuous. That she was both holy and heroic admits of no doubt, but I do not think that she should be used to support the case of those who defend the right of married women to work.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
No.
Traditionally men, women, and children all worked on a farm (or other family business). The housewife is a historical anomaly that only became possible when a large middle class began to emerge in the 19th century.
The (historical) norm is everybody in the family having to work.
 
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