Three Principals For Honoring Your Husband

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We cannot move as we bought a house with my husband’s family so that we can assist in the care of my sick mother-in-law. It’s complicated 🙂
What a wonderful act of charity. You will be greatly rewarded through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for your care and compassion of the sick.
 
**AA and Serap, please consolidate your posts so that there are not many in a row.
**It makes the thread much easier to read. If you are only responding to a particular part of someone’s post, simply quote that small section (and quote as many sections as needed in the same post). It also makes it easier for those who disagree with you to respond to you (I think they are wrong, but at least do not unduly burden them!).
Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition are Church teaching.
Oh, Mickey, why do you think I will let you get away with that? You originally posted this:
What does Sacred Scripture and Church Fathers/Mothers have to say about this?
Now you are saying that “Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition” are Church teaching, which was not what you first stated.

Furthermore, it is not an issue of Sacred Scripture being ignored, but rather an issue of correctly interpreting said scripture. Catholicism is reasonable; Scripture will not disagree with reason. Since we face an interpretive impasse, reason seems ideal as a means to resolve this issue.

We can feel confident that what is in the CCC is correct. It is part of Church teaching. Does Church teaching speak about the morality of female soldiers, or women in the workforce?

This is obviously a huge issue. The Church has had plenty of time to address this issue. They have not proclaimed it immoral. Why do you think that is?
 
Perhaps he is tired of reading your constant attacks and insults.

I know I am.
Then why are you in this thread at all?

As you yourself stated, you’re not interested enough to even read it all the way through:shrug:
 
I wonder where the Church would be today, and what would the state of the country and world be today, if Catholics focused their energies on God, and not on self.

At the end of our lives, will God care how much money we made, or how awesome our jobs were? Or, will God care what kind of people we were, and in what way did we give back to His Kingdom through our love for Him and others?

Other than being a Priest, is there really anything God gives that is greater than raising His children? How can any career (doctor, lawyer, engineer, nurse, etc) compare to raising Godly children? Whether it is the Mother or the Father raising the children, is there any greater calling or vocation (with perhaps the sole exception of Priest)?

Ultimately, we tend to make things far more complicated than they really are…and we do that because we want “OUR” personal plans to hold the day, rather than working for God’s plans for all humanity.

Funnily enough, many men have finally come to understand the amazing vocation and gift behind raising a family from home–many have lost their jobs and are now fulltime parents in the home, and most will tell you they do NOT want to go back to their old lives, they find far more reward in taking care of their children, then in going off to work every day. There are reasons for that, there is Grace and blessings received in serving others like stay-at-home parents must do for their children…it is incredibly difficult work, yet amazingly rewarding–and there are only rare times in life when a person can feel so completely that they have given back to the world in a manner in which they too received.
St. Gianna had no problem going to work and taking care of the children - it doesn’t have to be an either or - I thank GOD that I have a carrer and a family and there is nothing wrong with my family because I have a career. And I am not SELFISH to want a career - thank God the CCC never came out and said what Portrait has put forth - that women should quit work upon marriage or upon having children and that women shouldn’t be judges or have any other position that would place them in charge or above a man. I was even military for a time and wish I could have stayed in to fly - yes - combat missions if necessary. There is nothing wrong with being a stay at home mom - it’s commendable - but so is having a career and a famly. I love God, I love my family and yes, I love having a career.
No woman should have to defend having a career outside the home after being married - someof you want to go back to a society where that’s all a woman is basically allowed to be - a wife and a mother (and again if that’s what she feels called to do - wonderful!) - but don’t imply that those of us that just have a career or have both a career and family are doing something that goes against Church teaching - because we’re not.
God Bless
Rye
 
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
At least you admit that in your vision of the ideal society, women would be firmly at the bottom.
Dear AngryAtheist,

Hello again.

What I am arguing for, dear friend, is for married women to exclusively submit themselves to being home makers and to understand that their is nothing inferior or denigrating about this. Secular femenism and its godless propaganda has subjected married women to a continual barrage of nonesense about their right to pursue a career and be a mother. It is now expected of them to be a part of the workforce, as devoting oneself exclusively to being a wife and mother is considered demeaning and unfulfilling. Catholics should never have bought into this un-Christian and secular mindset.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
Really?

Because what you actually said was:
It is God’s good will that the woman should influence mankind from the bottom up,
 
Dear AngryAtheist,

Hello again.

What I am arguing for, dear friend, is for married women to exclusively submit themselves to being home makers and to understand that their is nothing inferior or denigrating about this. Secular femenism and its godless propaganda has subjected married women to a continual barrage of nonesense about their right to pursue a career and be a mother. It is now expected of them to be a part of the workforce, as devoting oneself exclusively to being a wife and mother is considered demeaning and unfulfilling. Catholics should never have bought into this un-Christian and secular mindset.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
Would women have any legal or political rights in this ideal world that you imagine (such as the right to an education or the right to run for political office)?
 
What a wonderful act of charity. You will be greatly rewarded through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for your care and compassion of the sick.
Thank you for your compliment. Gob bless.

I don’t feel like I’m caring and compassionate because I often feel resentful that we care for his mother. I know it’s sinful to think that way. I try not to.
 
As regards St.Gianni, it is quite true that she did harmonize the arduous demands of motherhood with being a doctor, but she regarded the field of medicine as a ‘mission’ and so probably received special divine grace to combine the two effectively. However, this is unique and we cannot use, for polemical purposes, the case of St. Gianni as a template to justify a wholesale departure from the norm of married women being “workers at home”. That, my dear friend, is just plain disengenuous. That she was both holy and heroic admits of no doubt, but I do not think that she should be used to support the case
I have a question about this right here. When I was preparing for confirmation (about 10 years ago) we were told to pick a saint that we felt would help guide us in our faith as a role model. We were told that we could take inspiration from the lives of saints to help show us ways to reach God. That if God gave these people the grace to be saints then if we sincerely asked for it he would also give us the grace to be saints.

At the time I picked St Francis because I was shy and spent most of my time helping animals, but grew to appreciate the way he helped many people and took that as inspiration to reach out to others.

In the same way, couldn’t an average every day Catholic laywoman pick to follow the example set by St Gianni? What if I woman feels called to work outside her home but she also feels called to have a large family? Couldn’t she take inspiration from the fact God granted St Gianni the grace to be a saint and have faith that God would also grant her the graces she needed to follow him and with God’s blessing become a saint as well?

I think if you tell woman that just because St Gianni was a saint doesn’t mean you can be a saint too by following a similiar path, you have missed an important teaching of Catholism, which is anyone can become a saint through the grace of God. It would be the same as telling a young man “Just because St Augustine was given grace by God to leave behind a life of sinfulness doesn’t mean you can do the same thing so don’t even bother trying because St Augustine is not the norm for Catholic men.”
 
You were wrong then and you remain wrong now.
According to the Bible Saint Paul said:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched in order to please them, but with a sincere heart, fearing the Lord
-Colossians 3

Now people have admittedly interpreted this passage a lot of different ways. But if we interpret the Bible as literally as possible (a position you have advocated in this very thread) then Saint Paul was clearly endorsing the authority of slave masters and therefore the institution of slavery itself.
Dear AngryAtheist,

Hello again and thankyou for reponse.

St. Paul gave that wise counsel because of the present distress, dear friend. He had to be pragmatic so as not to arouse the unwanted hostility of the powers that be. Is not discretion the best part of valour? That is not endorsing the institution of slavery, but sensibly avoiding inviting persecution upon the fledgling Church. Thus whilst the essential element of slavery was not attacked, what St. Paul said did result in a radical transformation of attitude and this would gradually pave the way for eventual abolition.

We cannot really discuss this issue further, my dear friend, as it is not relevant to the topic now under review.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
The mother has a special bond with her children having carried them in her womb. The most Holy Theotokos is our great example. St Joseph was the carpenter…not St Mary.
Yes. A stay-at-home mom has the most difficult job known to mankind
There are many posts here at once. Please have a bit of patience.
So what?

The most central and defining event/aspect of the Virgin Mary is her virgin motherhood, yet the Church doesn’t want women to imitate that (even though we have the technology to make it possible today).

The Virgin Mary is of limited use as a role model for women at best:shrug:
 
St. Gianna had no problem going to work and taking care of the children - it doesn’t have to be an either or - I thank GOD that I have a carrer and a family and there is nothing wrong with my family because I have a career. And I am not SELFISH to want a career - thank God the CCC never came out and said what Portrait has put forth - that women should quit work upon marriage or upon having children and that women shouldn’t be judges or have any other position that would place them in charge or above a man. I was even military for a time and wish I could have stayed in to fly - yes - combat missions if necessary. There is nothing wrong with being a stay at home mom - it’s commendable - but so is having a career and a famly. I love God, I love my family and yes, I love having a career.
No woman should have to defend having a career outside the home after being married - someof you want to go back to a society where that’s all a woman is basically allowed to be - a wife and a mother (and again if that’s what she feels called to do - wonderful!) - but don’t imply that those of us that just have a career or have both a career and family are doing something that goes against Church teaching - because we’re not.
God Bless
Rye
Women have had careers since the beginnning of time honey:

seamstress, caring for farm animals, harvesting a crop, bakery, creamery, etc.

Women have never spent 100% of their time in their home ever (the exception was the 20th century when the term “housewife”, or “homemaker” was first coined.
 
I agree with number one. And I agree with the post by heart4home that "if you truly desire to be home, there are ways to make it happen."

Having said that, we are all given freewill and must make decisions based upon a properly formed conscience.
She is objectively wrong.
Plenty of women had to work throughout history (especially poor women) otherwise their children would have starved.
 
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
At least you admit that in your vision of the ideal society, women would be firmly at the bottom.

Really?

Because what you actually said was:
It is God’s good will that the woman should influence mankind from the bottom up,
Dear AngryAtheist,

Hello again.

A woman, dear friend, influences mankind from the bottom up by raising children from their earliest days and being a mother, for that is a role of great importance and should never be undervalued. Secular radical femenism, by its warped ideology, has been reponsible for denigrating the role of motherhood and child bearing. It is this false and godless thinking that has actually demeaned women, not the Christian role of women.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Dear AngryAtheist,

Hello again.

A woman, dear friend, influences mankind from the bottom up by raising children from their earliest days and being a mother, for that is a role of great importance and should never be undervalued. Secular radical femenism, by its warped ideology, has been reponsible for denigrating the role of motherhood and child bearing. It is this false and godless thinking that has actually demeaned women, not the Christian role of women.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
I actually agree with Portrait on this…that mothering is undervalued in our current society.

This is why so many SAHM’s feel so unaccomlished when their kids begin to attend full-time school.

100 years ago, women were so busy making clothes from scratch, tending to the farm, baking bread, washing clothes by hand, they didn’t have time to feel unaccomplished.

SAHM’s today have washing machines, dryers, vaccuums, Walmart, etc. Once the kids are in school full-time, it would get a little boring, don’t you think?
 
St. Gianna had no problem going to work and taking care of the children - it doesn’t have to be an either or - I thank GOD that I have a carrer and a family and there is nothing wrong with my family because I have a career. And I am not SELFISH to want a career - thank God the CCC never came out and said what Portrait has put forth - that women should quit work upon marriage or upon having children and that women shouldn’t be judges or have any other position that would place them in charge or above a man. I was even military for a time and wish I could have stayed in to fly - yes - combat missions if necessary. There is nothing wrong with being a stay at home mom - it’s commendable - but so is having a career and a famly. I love God, I love my family and yes, I love having a career.
No woman should have to defend having a career outside the home after being married - someof you want to go back to a society where that’s all a woman is basically allowed to be - a wife and a mother (and again if that’s what she feels called to do - wonderful!) - but don’t imply that those of us that just have a career or have both a career and family are doing something that goes against Church teaching - because we’re not.
God Bless
Rye
Never once did I say women cannot have careers. Go back and read my posts. My opinion is simple, we are here for God, not ourselves, and we are to build-up His kingdom, not our own empires. The best scenario is to have one parent at home, and in most cases the best person to be home would be the Mother, yet as I have said, there are other arrangements that we see all the time. In my opinion, if a couple can find a way to have one person stay home, than they should do so. Kids are much better off with a parent at home.

The thing I think many people do NOT understand (or accept) is that raising children fulltime in the home is a career, and it is also much more than just a career–it is a true vocation. It is beyond any doubt the greatst of all possible lay careers on earth. What stay-at-home parents put into their kids will be reflected in the culture 10, 20, 40 years from now!

I believe every woman has a right to a career if they choose, yet those choices should be made as a couple, and they should be made with God at the heart of every decision. The fact that you can write, “some of you want to go back to a society where that’s all a woman is basically allowed to be - a wife and a mother.”, is something I find disturbing because it belittles the incredible importance of being a Mother and a Wife, and it belittles the men who are staying at home caring for their children. There simply is no greater “career” than personally staying at home raising Godly children. In the end, who cares what income work we did…what matters is what kind of people we were, what sort of children we raise, and how much we loved God and others…the rest is all incidental required “stuff” that has to be done, but is no where near as important as the actual raising and forming of children.

**Today’s children become tomorrows adults. **

In truth, life tends to make things straight over time. We are seeing many millions of women opting to work fulltime in careers (it is their legal right to choose that path), and many of their husbands are choosing to remain at home to care for the kids. Many of those dads are learning the lessons that now appear lost on many women…they are embracing and loving raising their kids. Those dads get to impart the lion-share of who and what those kids will be as adults. Honestly, for many men today, it is a vocation that gives them a responsbility that they simply never had in the regular workforce–the opportunity to help create future adults! So, I suspect more men will embrace that path, which means women will become more and more free to pursue their careers of choice. Men tend to have lofty goals, they want to conquer the world, and many are now realizing that they can fill their own natural instincts by helping create future adults. It is quite possible that stay-at-home dads could end-up being a huge plus for the world and for Christianity in general. I once read a survey that said 75% of all kids who have a dad who is inactive in the faith, will grow-up to be inactive in the faith; while, 75% of all kids who have a dad who is active in the faith, will grow-up to be active in the faith. Perhaps dads being fulltime raisers of kids is exactly what is needed at this time. We shall see how this all unfolds.
 
Dear AngryAtheist,

Hello again and thankyou for reponse.

St. Paul gave that wise counsel because of the present distress, dear friend. He had to be pragmatic so as not to arouse the unwanted hostility of the powers that be. Is not discretion the best part of valour? That is not endorsing the institution of slavery, but sensibly avoiding inviting persecution upon the fledgling Church. Thus whilst the essential element of slavery was not attacked, what St. Paul said did result in a radical transformation of attitude and this would gradually pave the way for eventual abolition.

We cannot really discuss this issue further, my dear friend, as it is not relevant to the topic now under review.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
Somehow I am not surprised that you’re saying that.

But note that you are betraying the principal of interpreting the Bible as literally as possible (a principal you used to justifying limiting women’s role in society) in this instance.

Moreover, if you feel like to denying that, I would like to remind you that there is a record of every post in this thread. And I am more than willing to repost your words again.
 
I actually agree with Portrait on this…that mothering is undervalued in our current society.

This is why so many SAHM’s feel so unaccomlished when their kids begin to attend full-time school.

100 years ago, women were so busy making clothes from scratch, tending to the farm, baking bread, washing clothes by hand, they didn’t have time to feel unaccomplished.

SAHM’s today have washing machines, dryers, vaccuums, Walmart, etc. Once the kids are in school full-time, it would get a little boring, don’t you think?
Sure, but a home always has work that must be done, and local schools always need volunteers, and it is always a blessing to have adults going to daily Mass and saying daily Rosaries for their familes, the Church, the world. There is so much to be done for the Lord, and stay at home parents have a bit more time to do those things once their kids are in fulltime school. But, let us not forget Christmas breaks, spring breaks, days off, summer breaks, staying at home sick, having someone there when the kids get home, having someone there when the kids wake each school day, having someone helping with homework and with faith formation, on and on…it remains fulltime work even when kids go to school fulltime.
 
Dear AngryAtheist,

Hello again.

A woman, dear friend, influences mankind from the bottom up by raising children from their earliest days and being a mother, for that is a role of great importance and should never be undervalued. Secular radical femenism, by its warped ideology, has been reponsible for denigrating the role of motherhood and child bearing. It is this false and godless thinking that has actually demeaned women, not the Christian role of women.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
Ah…no.
Not at all.

Traditionally feminine activities (such as raising children) have always been undervalued.

Open up virtually any history book and you will find that most of the people mentioned in it are men. The few women will almost entirely be figures such as Joan of Arc, Catherine the Great, and Queen Cleopatra who did stereotypically male things such as running a country or leading an army.

Simply giving birth or raising children (regardless of how many children or how well they were raised) was usually not seen as worthy of recognition.
 
Ah…no.
Not at all.

Traditionally feminine activities (such as raising children) have always been undervalued.

Open up virtually any history book and you will find that most of the people mentioned in it are men. The few women will almost entirely be figures such as Joan of Arc, Catherine the Great, and Queen Cleopatra who did stereotypically male things such as running a country or leading an army.

Simply giving birth or raising children (regardless of how many children or how well they were raised) was usually not seen as worthy of recognition.
Our self worth should not be derived from the world, but from God. Raising Godly children is a thankless task–IN THIS WORLD. Yet, God sees all that we do, and I believe therein lies the reason so many men now find themselves able to raise their kids–they see it is as something that belongs to a higher order, and men love that–men love the idea of rising to a higher calling than they would normally follow.
 
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