Three states of unconsecrated life

  • Thread starter Thread starter Xantippe
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
X

Xantippe

Guest
Dorothy Cummings McLean (the Catholic blogger at Seraphic Singles and Historical House) has a new post up about the differences between singles, married childless couples and married couples with children and how the different groups can have friends and be friends with each other:

thehistoricalhouse.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/three-distinct-states-of-unconsecrated.html

The topic has come up on CAF before so I thought I should share the post. (DCM herself is a middle-aged childless married woman, with a previous long career as a single woman.)

Some quotes:

“Married people with children are most likely to socialize with other married people with children, when they socialize outside the family at all. Their lives are almost completely incompatible with the social needs of Singles because Singles need undivided attention when they express their joys and woes, and Marrieds are usually completely distracted by small children saying “Mom, Mom, Mom, Mom, Mom, Dad, Dad, Dad” or breaking things or hitting other children. Speaking as a long-time former Single, it is highly annoying when you are telling a married mother about your broken heart and she interrupts you to tell her adorable proof of love to get Daddy to fix it, whatever ‘it’ may be. When married people with children do get together (not just hand over children at the door) their children play together and the parents all get distracted together. It is very noisy, and even married people without children can take only so much of it. It must be positively hellish for Singles.”

“Married people with children have less freedom of mobility than anyone outside of a cloistered convent. In order to spend time with married friends, the best thing you can do is go where they are, whenever they are there. This is usually their home, and unless you are super-close, they don’t want you to see their home because it has been denuded of dangerous furniture and covered with toys, if not random bread crusts.”

“Married people and Singles worry about different things, and the worries of opposite groups can seem quite laughable. The Single talk about their latest romance and the Married mother, on a bad day, tries not to roll her eyes. The Married Mother discusses her worries about her child’s music lessons, and the Single is struck by how wonderful it would be to have children and a husband to help pay for their music lessons. (Depending on her level of acceptance of her lot, the Married Woman without Children may have similar thoughts.) Therefore, when time available for socializing is at a premium, the Married Mother is most likely to want to talk to someone who can and will understand and sympathize with her problems.”

“The upshot of all this is that Single Life and Married Life with Children are almost directly opposed. The Single person needs and deserves emotional support, but the Married person with children already gives so much support to the unmarried–his or her children–that they usually have no more to give. They are both tied and tired. They are no longer who they were when they were Single, which can be difficult for their Single friends to accept.”
 
All lay people, regardless of their state in life, need not socialize extensively with others who do not share their state in life. It would be nice however, to leave the judgements and assumption behind and treat each other civilly, instead of assuming the worst about each other. Examples of such is making crude remarks about families with many children, assuming all couples who have no children or a few children are on contraception, and all singles are selfish. I’ll settle for civility.
 
I’m fortunate to have a friendship that has survived the different paths my bff and I each took, but it is the exception. Even recently, with some church friends (I call them church friends because our main connection is church, even if we do things together that aren’t church related) and the differences in our live seem to be a problem. I think that one of them decided to deliberately steer the conversation toward kids and grand kids before turning to me and apologizing for doing so and then asked what I was up to and how was my cat.

First, there was no need to apologize.That’s what friends do, share what is going on in their lives. And don’t suggest that I’m so self-absorbed I can’t find other peoples’ live interesting. Also, don’t ask me about my cat as though that is the most significant relationship in my life (sometimes it feels that way, and I do tell my cats that but it isn’t really).

I know a few times the conversation seemed to be directed/scripted and I believe it was done because that the things I talked about didn’t interest them. I can’t really talk about work and I don’t think talking about how many times I go to the gym is interesting so I would mention a book I read or ask if they had seen a particular movie, or similar. I think the one (the ringleader) thought my life was superficial, or at least my interests were, and even when the conversation seemed to be steered toward my interests…okay here’s how that went down: The ringleader brought up movies and asked what we had seen and when one mentioned she got to catch some during downtime on a business trip I asked her what they were and she couldn’t really remember. You see, I wasn’t supposed to ask that; I was supposed to ramble on about the the pretentious films** I **saw and not engage with them. Also, even though the question was asked for everyone to answer, guess who didn’t get to share. 👋 I I think I derailed things by going off script. I know I sound paranoid but I know when **** is going down.

I believe that they have a problem with my singleness, although I don’t know why but I think one is starting to think I’m gay. I’ve rebuffed their attempts at matchmaking but cause they suck at it, so bad. I have other friends, married ones, who are okay with me not being married. I posted an article to my FB wall about singlehood and I quipped that sometimes I thought it would be nice to have a partner but then I would think, “nah” and a few friends, each in their own way, supported me in that, mostly with humor. It should be noted the friends who seem to be uncomfortable with my singleness are older than me and the ones who are okay with it are younger. I don’t know how that factors in. They are all married with children.
 
All lay people, regardless of their state in life, need not socialize extensively with others who do not share their state in life. It would be nice however, to leave the judgements and assumption behind and treat each other civilly, instead of assuming the worst about each other. Examples of such is making crude remarks about families with many children, assuming all couples who have no children or a few children are on contraception, and all singles are selfish. I’ll settle for civility.
Civility and assuming the best would be great.
 
I’m fortunate to have a friendship that has survived the different paths my bff and I each took, but it is the exception. Even recently, with some church friends (I call them church friends because our main connection is church, even if we do things together that aren’t church related) and the differences in our live seem to be a problem. I think that one of them decided to deliberately steer the conversation toward kids and grand kids before turning to me and apologizing for doing so and then asked what I was up to and how was my cat.

First, there was no need to apologize.That’s what friends do, share what is going on in their lives. And don’t suggest that I’m so self-absorbed I can’t find other peoples’ live interesting. Also, don’t ask me about my cat as though that is the most significant relationship in my life (sometimes it feels that way, and I do tell my cats that but it isn’t really).

I know a few times the conversation seemed to be directed/scripted and I believe it was done because that the things I talked about didn’t interest them. I can’t really talk about work and I don’t think talking about how many times I go to the gym is interesting so I would mention a book I read or ask if they had seen a particular movie, or similar. I think the one (the ringleader) thought my life was superficial, or at least my interests were, and even when the conversation seemed to be steered toward my interests…okay here’s how that went down: The ringleader brought up movies and asked what we had seen and when one mentioned she got to catch some during downtime on a business trip I asked her what they were and she couldn’t really remember. You see, I wasn’t supposed to ask that; I was supposed to ramble on about the the pretentious films** I **saw and not engage with them. Also, even though the question was asked for everyone to answer, guess who didn’t get to share. 👋 I I think I derailed things by going off script. I know I sound paranoid but I know when **** is going down.

I believe that they have a problem with my singleness, although I don’t know why but I think one is starting to think I’m gay. I’ve rebuffed their attempts at matchmaking but cause they suck at it, so bad. I have other friends, married ones, who are okay with me not being married. I posted an article to my FB wall about singlehood and I quipped that sometimes I thought it would be nice to have a partner but then I would think, “nah” and a few friends, each in their own way, supported me in that, mostly with humor. It should be noted the friends who seem to be uncomfortable with my singleness are older than me and the ones who are okay with it are younger. I don’t know how that factors in. They are all married with children.
A lot, not all, but a lot of married people assume that all singles are on the prowl, waiting to break up married couples. Somehow if they see you married than you are “safe”.

:rolleyes:
 
A lot, not all, but a lot of married people assume that all singles are on the prowl, waiting to break up married couples. Somehow if they see you married than you are “safe”.

:rolleyes:
And that is what is so surprising about my circle is that the younger ones seem to be more secure I guess. But in other circles I overlap with what you described seems to be the case. Sometimes I wonder why get along so well with certain friends because I don’t find my friends’ spouses attractive, and not just in the physical sense, but even if they were single guys I wouldn’t want to hang out with them if I didn’t have to. I am not saying they are bores or anything; there just isn’t a click.
 
And that is what is so surprising about my circle is that the younger ones seem to be more secure I guess. But in other circles I overlap with that seems to be the case. Sometimes I wonder why get along so well with certain friends because I don’t find my friends’ spouses attractive, and not just in the physical sense, but even if they were single guys I wouldn’t want to hang out with them if I didn’t have to. I am not saying they are bores or anything there just isn’t a click.
Some married women find it inconceivable that not all women find their husbands attractive. Yes, I have met women like that.
 
Some married women find it inconceivable that not all women find their husbands attractive. Yes, I have met women like that.
Oh, of course. I was having a “duh” moment that has lasted most of my adult life. They find their partners attractive so who wouldn’t? Got it. 😃

Also, I have maintained that it impossible for me to find a married man attractive, that I’m hard-wired that way. Adultery, with a married man or if I were married is probably the only sin I’m unlikely to be tempted to. Other sixth commandment stuff, not so much; I’m not saying I’m perfect.
 
Oh, of course. I was having a “duh” moment that has lasted most of my adult life. They find their partners attractive so who wouldn’t? Got it. 😃

Also, I have maintained that it impossible for me to find a married man attractive, that I’m hard-wired that way. Adultery, with a married man or if I were married is probably the only sin I’m unlikely to be tempted to. Other sixth commandment stuff, not so much; I’m not saying I’m perfect.
Yes. If a married man is willing to be unfaithful to his wife in order to go after you, he already has proven that he will in all likelihood be unfaithful to you too.

😃
 
All lay people, regardless of their state in life, need not socialize extensively with others who do not share their state in life. It would be nice however, to leave the judgements and assumption behind and treat each other civilly, instead of assuming the worst about each other. Examples of such is making crude remarks about families with many children, assuming all couples who have no children or a few children are on contraception, and all singles are selfish. I’ll settle for civility.
That’s very reasonable.
 
I’m fortunate to have a friendship that has survived the different paths my bff and I each took, but it is the exception. Even recently, with some church friends (I call them church friends because our main connection is church, even if we do things together that aren’t church related) and the differences in our live seem to be a problem. I think that one of them decided to deliberately steer the conversation toward kids and grand kids before turning to me and apologizing for doing so and then asked what I was up to and how was my cat.

First, there was no need to apologize.That’s what friends do, share what is going on in their lives. And don’t suggest that I’m so self-absorbed I can’t find other peoples’ live interesting. Also, don’t ask me about my cat as though that is the most significant relationship in my life (sometimes it feels that way, and I do tell my cats that but it isn’t really).

I know a few times the conversation seemed to be directed/scripted and I believe it was done because that the things I talked about didn’t interest them. I can’t really talk about work and I don’t think talking about how many times I go to the gym is interesting so I would mention a book I read or ask if they had seen a particular movie, or similar. I think the one (the ringleader) thought my life was superficial, or at least my interests were, and even when the conversation seemed to be steered toward my interests…okay here’s how that went down:** The ringleader brought up movies and asked what we had seen and when one mentioned she got to catch some during downtime on a business trip I asked her what they were and she couldn’t really remember.** You see, I wasn’t supposed to ask that; I was supposed to ramble on about the the pretentious films** I **saw and not engage with them. Also, even though the question was asked for everyone to answer, guess who didn’t get to share. 👋 I I think I derailed things by going off script. I know I sound paranoid but I know when **** is going down.

I believe that they have a problem with my singleness, although I don’t know why but I think one is starting to think I’m gay. I’ve rebuffed their attempts at matchmaking but cause they suck at it, so bad. I have other friends, married ones, who are okay with me not being married. I posted an article to my FB wall about singlehood and I quipped that sometimes I thought it would be nice to have a partner but then I would think, “nah” and a few friends, each in their own way, supported me in that, mostly with humor. It should be noted the friends who seem to be uncomfortable with my singleness are older than me and the ones who are okay with it are younger. I don’t know how that factors in. They are all married with children.
I’m going to blow the whistle on your friend and reveal a major secret of Married People Club: I don’t think she has seen any movies lately, just TV.
 
And that is what is so surprising about my circle is that the younger ones seem to be more secure I guess. But in other circles I overlap with what you described seems to be the case. Sometimes I wonder why get along so well with certain friends because I don’t find my friends’ spouses attractive, and not just in the physical sense, but even if they were single guys I wouldn’t want to hang out with them if I didn’t have to. I am not saying they are bores or anything; there just isn’t a click.
Being around other people’s husbands always makes me very happy about my own.
 
All lay people, regardless of their state in life, need not socialize extensively with others who do not share their state in life. It would be nice however, to leave the judgements and assumption behind and treat each other civilly, instead of assuming the worst about each other. Examples of such is making crude remarks about families with many children, assuming all couples who have no children or a few children are on contraception, and all singles are selfish. I’ll settle for civility.
Part of the struggle can be that, depending on the area, there may not be many people of a certain age category in a certain state of life. One of my own personal frustrations is that I’m rapidly approaching an age when many/most other Christians are married or at least dating. It’s not any easier for me to socialize with a bunch of 18-20 year olds than it is with a married individual of my own age.

I know the blog does mention that, but I have never found friendships with people significantly younger than me to be particularly fulfilling. They tend to be very one-sided.
 
Part of the struggle can be that, depending on the area, there may not be many people of a certain age category in a certain state of life. One of my own personal frustrations is that I’m rapidly approaching an age when many/most other Christians are married or at least dating. It’s not any easier for me to socialize with a bunch of 18-20 year olds than it is with a married individual of my own age.

I know the blog does mention that, but I have never found friendships with people significantly younger than me to be particularly fulfilling. They tend to be very one-sided.
How about friendships with people much older? I try not to limit my friendships to certain age groups. I have some friends who are barely in their twenties and some friends who are in the 90s and friends in between. I also relish my friendship with empty nester older couples. These couples are more mellow, more relaxed.
 
How about friendships with people much older? I try not to limit my friendships to certain age groups. I have some friends who are barely in their twenties and some friends who are in the 90s and friends in between. I also relish my friendship with empty nester older couples. These couples are more mellow, more relaxed.
Yes.
 
I’ve been very lucky I guess. As friends have gotten married, stayed single, had kids, whatever, we’ve always provided each other with love, support, and respect for where we are in life. I never look down on my single friends’ struggles, because if I hadn’t had the dumb luck of meeting my husband, I’d have a hard time myself. But, my friend groups have always been mixed gender, so it’s easy for people to incorporate their significant others and for everyone to feel comfortable.
 
I’m fortunate to have a friendship that has survived the different paths my bff and I each took, but it is the exception. Even recently, with some church friends (I call them church friends because our main connection is church, even if we do things together that aren’t church related) and the differences in our live seem to be a problem. I think that one of them decided to deliberately steer the conversation toward kids and grand kids before turning to me and apologizing for doing so and then asked what I was up to and how was my cat.
How is your cat, by the way? You never did say.

😃

Seriously, though, sounds like that “ringleader” person likes to play some kind of weird petty politics.

My circle of friends consists of one married couple (no kids, 2 cats), the husband from another married couple (no kids, no cats), another just-married couple (brand-new 7-year-old stepkid from a previous marriage), and a lifelong bachelor.

No one tries to fix up my bachelor friend, and no one makes any assumptions on his sexuality (he did once mention an attraction to Heidi Klum). He just is who he is, and we like him. The lone husband, his wife has other interests, we do see her at Christmas; she’s very friendly, but our interests don’t overlap: she has “her thing”, he has “his thing”, and they also have “their thing”. The married couple sometimes do things with the bachelor that exclude the rest of us – often due to schedules and things.

I think “mixed friendships” can work, there just needs to be some compromise, some flexibility. Yes, no one wants to hear the story of Baby Snookums first fluegelhorn recital Every. Single. Visit. ! :mad: On the other hand, I’ve been convinced to cut back on the number of renditions of the porcupine-in-my-barracks stories. 😊

Maybe you just need to get some kind of dynamic that has more BFF and less ringleader.
 
As a 46 year old single woman, I have avoided friendships with women with young kids for over a decade. It is just no fun always having to cater to the other person’s schedule. I understand good mom’s put their kids first, but I just can’t stand being their friend.

Sadly, being friends with single women comes at a price as well. They always want to go to singles events and just talking about how great it would be to meet a man
 
I have to say, in my personal experience, the internet is a godsend. The internet means I can have a chat with a married friend while her baby is down for a nap, even if arranging an in-person meeting would be prohibitive.
 
I have to say, in my personal experience, the internet is a godsend. The internet means I can have a chat with a married friend while her baby is down for a nap, even if arranging an in-person meeting would be prohibitive.
That’s a good point.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top