Throwing infants against rocks ? Is it justified in the Bible?

[Freddy]

goout:

a false solution and it detracts from the hard work at hand that should aim at restoring real justice.

Killing the child perpetuates the injustice

This is only subjective human logic. The bible disagree to this opinion.

One cannot be a catholic if he does not believe in the bible, can he?

You mean literally? Every word as written actually happened exactly as written? Yes, she can be a Catholic and not believe it all happened exactly as you personally interpret it.

Even I know that.

 

[stpurl]

You know, if you were giving us ‘God’s teaching’ you would have an absolutely unbroken line from the apostles where this ‘interpretation’ was stated AS God’s teaching, where there would be examples of Christians who had carried out this teaching, etc.

Of course, if you were giving a ‘personal interpretation’ of cherry picked passages which you lop and crop and bend and stretch to try to make it look as if the passages supported you, you’d have the twisted, “bolded’, and absolutely unsubstantiated ‘position’ that you keep on putting forth. Your personal interpretation presented as God’s law.. Which most certainly it is not.

Be honest with us. Remember, before you made your profile private, some of us saw it. “Raised Catholic but chooses to be ecumenical in practice’. Your own words.

So you come to a Catholic forum, mock us, snark at us for ‘not believing the Bible’ (ignoring the fact that the Bible is not a self-interpreting text) and pretty much prove that you’re about as far from a Catholic or even a non-Catholic Christian as you could be and still be in the same galaxy.

I had hoped, with the other thread passing away, that you’d be content to do an Elsa and ‘Let it Go’ with your comments. And the only reason I and others respond—is to correct your wrongs and pray for you to open yourself to God’s guidance and repent.

In this season where we celebrate the birth of the Christ child, slightly after comes the Feast of the Holy Innocents —those children who are slaughtered by Herod because they were born in the same period as the Messiah Christ Jesus in an attempt by Herod to ensure, among the deaths, the deaths of that Messiah. They did no wrong. Their only ‘crime’ was to be in a ‘wrong place’ at the ‘wrong time’.

The children lost to the holocaust of abortion are in the same position. They are all children. They are not their fathers or their mothers; they are their own unique persons.

Instead of clamoring not for God’s justice to be done in the case of a wrong like rape, you make up your ‘personal justice’ which involves the murder of the innocent child, and smugly declare it is ‘God’s will’ for the ‘rapist’s seed’.

May God forgive you for such hatred to His innocents, and for trying to spread it around.

 

[JoyfulTune]

You mean literally? Every word as written actually happened exactly as written? Yes, she can be a Catholic and not believe it all happened exactly as you personally interpret it.

Even I know that.

People who belittle the bible usually are the ones do not read it.

If only you know, you would not belittle it

 

[JoyfulTune]

the ‘rapist’s seed’.

1. The history of salvation is paternal.
2. The woman carry a child of a man who is not her husband.

Your accusations to me is based on your ignorance of the bible. Not because you have read it.

 

[stpurl]

Excuse me? I have in fact read the entire Bible, and more than once. And I am extremely familiar with the passages you bring up. They do not support what you think they do.

 

[JoyfulTune]

Then please explain to me kindly, using bible passages you have read, instead of unending ad hominem attacks towards me.

 

[stpurl]

I am not making ad hominem attacks against you. It is you who presents a completely unknown personal interpretation of several Bible passages as God’s truth. Just saying, “This is God’s truth’ does not make it so.

You have had several posters through the other thread and this one explain to you where you are wrong. Your response is to simply cut-and-paste passages, bold some words, and say, “this proves what I Joyful Tune say”.

It doesn’t. You were raised Catholic, you said. It should be a simple matter for you to go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (you can find it for free at Vatican.va) and see what it says about abortion, find the relevant passages in the footnotes, and find a nice (also free) Bible such as the Douay Rheims or the New Revised Standard Version (Catholic) and follow those passages, and to find a Commentary such as Haydock, and see what those say. All right out there. You will find that none of those support your claims and hopefully it will help you figure out where you went wrong.

 

[JoyfulTune]

I have in fact read the entire Bible, and more than once. And I am extremely familiar with the passages you bring up. They do not support what you think they do

Please explain using bible passages you have read that explains to me my wrong

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

You mean literally? Every word as written actually happened exactly as written? Yes, she can be a Catholic and not believe it all happened exactly as you personally interpret it.

Even I know that.

People who belittle the bible usually are the ones do not read it.

Did someone belittle the bible earlier? Shame on them I say.

But how do you respond to my suggestion that one shouldn’t necessarily read everything in the bible as a verbatum and/or factual account of historical events?

 

[JoyfulTune]

But how do you respond to my suggestion that one shouldn’t necessarily read everything in the bible as a verbatum and/or factual account of historical events?

God’s Law and historical events are two different topics. Please do not chage the subject

Just tell me your interpretation of the original post, other than explaining to me how I should read my bible.

It is only your assumption that I have misinterpret it without you showing evidence.

 

[stpurl]

I will repeat: Please utilize the Catechism (on line at Vatican.va), the NSRV (Catholic), also online, and Haydock’s Commentary or the Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture (online). Those will give you authentic Christian teaching. You see, what you have posted so far is only your personal opinion. How do I know this? Because you simply ‘cut and paste’ Scripture and then say, “and this shows X”. You do not use the Catechism. You do not give any footnotes or show any use of any Christian theologian, Catholic or non-Catholic.

Therefore, why should I do all the work of hauling out the relevant passages from the above works, over who knows how many posts, for one person, who can do it herself?

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

But how do you respond to my suggestion that one shouldn’t necessarily read everything in the bible as a verbatum and/or factual account of historical events?

God’s Law and historical events are two different topics. Please do not chage the subject

It’s quite clear that the subject is actually how we determine what we believe to be God’s Law relates to what we believe might be historical facts.

There are some options. Actually the only ones that are logically possible.

If you believe that the events took place as described AND God commanded that children be slaughtered then either God gave a command which was immoral (nobody is going to seriously contemplate that). Or…slaughtering children is moral under some circumstances.

So we have that conclusion versus a position whereby the events didn’t take place exactly as described.

Now there are many things in the bible that are obviously metaphoric. They are parables. They are stories meant to teach a lesson rather than reflect an actual event. These are so common in literature as to not require giving any examples.

How you determine which is factual and which isn’t hasn’t been explained. Unless you treat everything in the bible as being an accurate and factual record of events then it might be a good idea to tell us how you dermine the difference.

 

[JoyfulTune]

why should I do all the work of hauling out the relevant passages from the above works, over who knows how many posts, for one person, who can do it herself?

I should then thankyou so much for your kind commennts, I suppose?

 

[JoyfulTune]

If you believe that the events took place as described AND God commanded that children be slaughtered then either God gave a command which was immoral (nobody is going to seriously contemplate that). Or…slaughtering children is moral under some circumstances.

1Samuel 15:1-3
15 Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. 2 Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

Our God is not “a god of morality”. He is The God of Justice! Anything unjust should be considered immoral. Forcing victim of crime to forgive is wrong. If you make raped women left with no choice but carry the rapist child, your good work in doing that is to obscure justice system (not a good work here). But the work of mercy help victims to choose forgiveness out of freewill.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

If you believe that the events took place as described AND God commanded that children be slaughtered then either God gave a command which was immoral (nobody is going to seriously contemplate that). Or…slaughtering children is moral under some circumstances.

1Samuel 15:1-3
15 Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. 2 Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

So it was moral. All those who were commanded were obliged to carry it out.

Now the $64,000 question. What if God gave you the command?

 

[JoyfulTune]

We have crime court now. If you worry the world become chaotic because people seek their own justice, then the more you need to understand the importance that the church respect justice system. Capital punishment for murder is just and not immoral. Abortion in rape case is just and not immoral.

 

[JoyfulTune]

What if God gave you the command?

No religious organization should be allowed killing people without trial. Neither any religious organization to obsure crime justice principles.

Punishing serious crimes is upholding Justice as mandated by God

In case of rape, the woman’s right to decide must be respected. If you force her to carry, what’s the difference between your spirit and the rapist spirit?

 

[FiveLinden]

The invocations and justifications in the Bible for the killing of innocents and other acts which, since the enlightened, we would consider unacceptable are are major impediments in the modern world to Christian recruitment. It seems to me that once one is determined that Christianity is right it is easy to explain these things. But without such faith is is not possible.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

What if God gave you the command?

No religious organization should be allowed killing people without trial. Neither any religious organization to obsure crime justice principles.

Punishing serious crimes is upholding Justice as mandated by God.

There was no trial mentioned in psalm 137. If God commands someone to kill, do we still need a trial?

I have to say that you are making this a lot more confusing than it should be.

 

[JoyfulTune]

There is no point talking round and around.

Read the bible yourself. There are too many passages to copy here.