Z
zemi
Guest
Tim Staples rocks!
But yeah, the same here… very, very short. I thought it would be really those 3 hours
- Status
But yeah, the same here… very, very short. I thought it would be really those 3 hours
Z
zemi
Guest
Z
zemi
Guest
Whooo… some tough words then… But Tim was very good.So no clear winner
How did Gendron talk to Staples? From his writings it seems that he thinks that he is so much smarter than everyone and I get the hint that he thinks Catholics are among the most unintelligent people on the earth. I was just wondering if he was respectful towards Staples or not. I mean look at what the web-site said; Gendron wouldn’t do the debate in a Protestant Church because he did want to, “perpetuate their false doctrine in evangelical churches.”
God bless
E
ElizabethPH
Guest
I don’t think Mike came across disrespectful in the radio debate, just typical.So no clear winner
How did Gendron talk to Staples? From his writings it seems that he thinks that he is so much smarter than everyone and I get the hint that he thinks Catholics are among the most unintelligent people on the earth. I was just wondering if he was respectful towards Staples or not. I mean look at what the web-site said; Gendron wouldn’t do the debate in a Protestant Church because he did want to, “perpetuate their false doctrine in evangelical churches.”
God bless
D
desert_cath
Guest
So in Matthew 16:18-19 it’s like saying, … and you Peter, you are a small moveable stone… I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
a very great responsibility being given to a “small, moveable stone”??? it doesn’t compute
M
Memaw
Guest
AMEN!!!
O
orpheus1
Guest
Heh. Translation: I won’t take any chances that the members of my church might actually hear and believe the Truth…So no clear winner
How did Gendron talk to Staples? From his writings it seems that he thinks that he is so much smarter than everyone and I get the hint that he thinks Catholics are among the most unintelligent people on the earth. I was just wondering if he was respectful towards Staples or not. I mean look at what the web-site said; Gendron wouldn’t do the debate in a Protestant Church because he did want to, “perpetuate their false doctrine in evangelical churches.”
God bless
M
Memaw
Guest
He isn’t calling Christ’s church a pale shadow of truth, he was saying the other was. Read carefully.
G
Gregory_Solman
Guest
The “pebble” reference is one of the hoariest and, if you would allow me an uncharitable moment, stupidest anti-Catholic arguments against Peter’s primacy.
Like that foolish woman on television Melissa Scott*, it relies upon a combination of private interpretation of scripture (expressly forbidden in scripture, ironically), reliance upon the anti-Catholic bible, Lorraine Boettner, and a specific form of hubris, Greek pseudo-scholarship.
To recap something explained in great detail in Karl Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism, pp. 210-212:
Some Protestants, deriving their argument entirely from Boettner, claim that the plain meaning of Matthew 16:18, where Simon’s name is changed to Peter and he is declared the Rock upon which His Church would be built, is really Jesus insulting Peter by calling him a little, moveable pebble (an odd thing for our Lord to do after Peter makes the first radical declaration of faith “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”)
They come to that perverse reading because in quoting our Lord, the Greek translation uses two words, Petros and petra. Petros does mean small, moveable stone (but is masculine, as Greek, like some other languages, uses gender) and petra means giant rock. The silly argument, then, is that Jesus never intended rock to mean rock.
Here’s why it’s particularly ridiculous:
- The original language is Aramaic, not Hebrew,* not Greek*. So the original text uses a non-gender specific word, kepha, in both instances. Elsewhere is sacred scripture, you will see Peter called Cephas, a variation on kepha. Of course, this devastates the argument in and of itself.
- In the Greek translation, naturally one would translate petra to Petros, because God would not re-name Simon with a feminine noun, anymore than He would rename Simon “Beth” or “Sue.”
Conclusion (sadly, always the same): When Protestants say the Bible is their only authority, they are really saying that their interpretation of scripture is the only authority. It is, finally, a fatal act of narcissism.
As one apologist put it, even if you only trust the Bible: There you will find that God did not leave us an authoritative book, but an authoritative Church.
*Do I hold my own knowledge of Greek above Scott’s? No. Do I hold the early Church fathers, actual Greek scholars, and those who walked with Jesus and the apostles and who commonly spoke Greek above Melissa Scott’s? Hell, yes. Following Boettner’s lead, Scott’s use of Greek is practically a parlor trick.
C
ccfbob
Guest
This was a great debate. Thanks for the heads up.
God’s Love to all !
God’s Love to all !
M
Memaw
Guest
I agree, and one that has lasted thru 2,000 years of earthly turmoil, down to our present Pope Benedict XVl, the head of the LARGEST Christian Catholic Church in the world. Larger than all christian organazations all put together, Doesn’t that tell us something!!! If one studied the Catholic Church’s teachings in TRUTH, you would find them all to be according to what Christ taught. Learn the truth from the Truth…So in Matthew 16:18-19 it’s like saying, … and you Peter, you are a small moveable stone… I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
a very great responsibility being given to a “small, moveable stone”??? it doesn’t compute
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Train time-tables don’t claim to be the only sources of train times - does it follow that cookery books are good source for them 
?
Neither is that proposition denied in the Bible - not affirming X, is not the same as denying it.Even if there were texts in the Biblical literature saying that this literature “is the ONLY source” of truth, that would have no meaning or force unless one were prepared to let it have them. There are always countless excellent reasons for not believing what one does not want to - or fo believing what one does want to
- there is no such thing as proof, except subjectively. People are very good at finding reasons not to believe what it is inconvenient to believe There are always enough difficulties with a case for it to be denied: the Moon landings, for example: it is absolutely impossible to persuade a convinced sceptic that they happened - difficulties can always be found, without dishonesty.
Not a word of that is in the Bible either - “[n]owhere in the Bible does it state” any of that. So, those statements may be true - or may not.
BTW - is there an implication that the Bible is not free from all error ? Just wondering…
C
Curt
Guest
I listened to the debate with Mike Gendron. Tim Staples gave Mike Gendron a Bible lesson. Mike Gendron is a protestant because he wants to be, not because of his knowledge of the Bible.
Apparently, Mike Gendron feels at home with protestant evangelicals. Knowledge of Scripture alone cannot make one a Catholic, but it’s a start. Apparently, Mike Gendron was poorly catechized as a former Catholic as are many Catholics today. They are easy pickins for evanglicals and pentecostals who know a few Bible verses to turn cradle Catholics into raging anti-Catholics, so sad. Catholics visiting a protestant church are often love bombed by protestants, and then shown a few verses such as Romans 3:28, Ephesians 2:8 and John 3:16 . My guess is that this was the start of Mike Gendron leaving the one true Church founded by Christ.
As Marcus Grodi says, Catholics leave the Church because they encounter bad Catholics or Catholics that don’t know their faith.
Apparently, Mike Gendron feels at home with protestant evangelicals. Knowledge of Scripture alone cannot make one a Catholic, but it’s a start. Apparently, Mike Gendron was poorly catechized as a former Catholic as are many Catholics today. They are easy pickins for evanglicals and pentecostals who know a few Bible verses to turn cradle Catholics into raging anti-Catholics, so sad. Catholics visiting a protestant church are often love bombed by protestants, and then shown a few verses such as Romans 3:28, Ephesians 2:8 and John 3:16 . My guess is that this was the start of Mike Gendron leaving the one true Church founded by Christ.
As Marcus Grodi says, Catholics leave the Church because they encounter bad Catholics or Catholics that don’t know their faith.
Z
zemi
Guest
Great points, Curt. Glad you’ve come here!
J
Johnh555
Guest
Oh you think so. The Bible, contradicts every one of these Roman Catholic doctrines:
“All Scripture is God-breathed
and is useful for teaching,
rebuking, correcting and
training in righteousness”
2 Tim. 3:16
Baptism with water effects
rebirth as sons of God and
imparts the Holy Spirit
Acts 10:47; John 1:12-13
Clergy Celibacy
1 Cor. 9:5; Mat. 8:14
Apostles’ succession
Acts 1:21-26
Eucharist as a reappearance
of Jesus to be worshiped
Heb. 9:26; Acts 1:11; Mat. 24:23, 27
Holy Days of Obligation
Gal. 4:9-11
Indulgences to remit
punishment for sin
Psalm 49:7-8; Hebrews 9:22
Justification by faith plus works
Rom. 3:24-26, 28; 4:5; 11:6;
Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:5; Gal. 2:16
Bishops are the only qualified
interpreters of Scripture
2 Cor. 4:2
Mary exalted as mediatrix
1 Tim. 2:5
Mary’s immaculate
conception and sinlessness
Rom. 5:12; 3:10, 23
Peter the rock on which
the church is built
Eph. 2:20; 1 Pet 2:4-8
Papal authority & infallibility
Gal. 2:11-14; Acts 17:11; Mat. 16:23
Pope is head of the church
Col. 1:18-20
Prayers for and to the dead
Heb. 9:27; Deut. 18:10-12
Priests continue to offer Jesus
as a sacrifice for sins
Heb. 10:12, 18; John 19:30
Purgatory purifies sins
Heb. 1:3; 10:10, 14; 1 John 1:7; Luke 23:39-43
Rosary and repetitious prayers
Mat. 6:7
Salvation conditional
on man’s faithfulness
Eph. 1:13-14; John 6:39; 10:27-30
Rom. 8:30; 11:29; Jude 24; 1 Pet. 1:3-5
Statues and Images
Rom. 1:22, 23, 25; Deut. 27:15; 1 John 5:21
Tradition equal with
Scripture in authority
Mark 7:9, 13; Col. 2:8
Venial sins
James 2:10; Rom. 6:23
M
MrS
Guest
welcome to CA forum.
Each of the verses you suggest are and have for centuries been taken out of context.
If you have the time, you might search the forum for each separately,
you will find lots of threads that will provide you with the answers you never got before your left the church.
M
MrS
Guest
How strange that the Bible ( the book of the Roman Catholic Church) could contain anything but what the Holy Spirit chose it should contain.
How strange the Holy Spirit would use Catholic human authors to pen the Scriptures, but allow for fallen away Catholics to determine what they mean.
How strange the verses (all Catholic ) are used and abused against the Catholic Church, yet not a one stands alone… all have other verses which would contradict the non-Catholic interpretation.
unless…
Jesus was right and He really did start only one Church
Thou speakest with absolutly no authority
Thou thinkest as an angry man
Thou believeth with a non-Catholic bias wrought in error.
But God still loves you… how awesome.
How strange the Holy Spirit would use Catholic human authors to pen the Scriptures, but allow for fallen away Catholics to determine what they mean.
How strange the verses (all Catholic ) are used and abused against the Catholic Church, yet not a one stands alone… all have other verses which would contradict the non-Catholic interpretation.
unless…
Jesus was right and He really did start only one Church
Thou speakest with absolutly no authority
Thou thinkest as an angry man
Thou believeth with a non-Catholic bias wrought in error.
But God still loves you… how awesome.
J
Johnh555
Guest
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong, Gods Holy word is my absolute authority
Wrong
Wrong
To the tune of Westminster Chines: You’re Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong,
you’re wrong ,as well as the entire Roman Catholic Church. (John 3:36)
Back at you (John 3:16)
N
NotWorthy
Guest
Johnh, just what are you trying to say?!? You keep straddling the fence, and I can’t a firm hold of your opinion.
Seriously, start a thread for your list, but pick them off one at a time. Even though this has been covered numerous times, I’m sure someone would love to tackle them again.
BTW, welcome to the Forums!!!
- Status