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Michael_Howard
Guest
Lol! Whoa whoa there big fella, stop and take a breath, introduce yourself and welcome to the forums
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scylla
Guest
Welcome to the forums Johnh555, we commonly get people who want to share the gospel with us, thank you for your concern and you are certainly welcome to share your love of the Bible with us.
As a Catholic I love to read the Bible and enjoy sharing parts of it as it is Gods Word.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
(I do enjoy how the KJV rolls with that verse.)
As Catholics we treasure the Bible and I believe that passage 100%, as it is God’s Word we do need to respect it and obey.
So I welcome you to the forums, it is against forum rules to splattergun a whole bunch of subjects as we are here for honest discussion not just polemics.
So please refrain from making a list of things in 10 different directions as that doesn’t do anybody any good and makes for crummy threads. If you have an objection please stick to one point and don’t change the subject and maybe we can all learn something.
In Christ
Scylla
As a Catholic I love to read the Bible and enjoy sharing parts of it as it is Gods Word.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
(I do enjoy how the KJV rolls with that verse.)
As Catholics we treasure the Bible and I believe that passage 100%, as it is God’s Word we do need to respect it and obey.
As it seems you have some disagreements with what you think is Catholic belief then I invite you to start some threads on these disagreements. You might help us stretch out our fingers and get a little bit into the Bible and heck you might learn a thing or two yourself. (I am sure you will admit you do not know everything and neither do I)
So I welcome you to the forums, it is against forum rules to splattergun a whole bunch of subjects as we are here for honest discussion not just polemics.
So please refrain from making a list of things in 10 different directions as that doesn’t do anybody any good and makes for crummy threads. If you have an objection please stick to one point and don’t change the subject and maybe we can all learn something.
In Christ
Scylla
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Michael_Howard
Guest
I agree with you, I listened to the debate a second time and Tim used Scripture masterfully and I’m really proud of him. I think another reason folks leave the Catholic Church is that it requires something of them, it requires a sacrifice, and in our rugged individualistic culture people want to do whatever they want to do when they want it, so the Protestant world holds the key for the most part of being able to do what you want on your own terms and still follow Jesus.
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Memaw
Guest
They think, but really not following Him as He wants us to. Look at all the Sacraments they miss and don’t even know it or seem to care. They think as long as they have the Bible,(which the Catholic Church put together) they have it all, and their own idea of what it says. How very sad at what they are missing. I thank GOD every day for the lady that brought my Grandmother into the Catholic Faith.
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Johnh555
Guest
Well now — I have listened to the debate several times.
In this debate, Mike Gendron’s goal was to glorify our
Lord Jesus Christ by focusing on His perfect,
sufficient and finished work of redemption
which is able to save sinners completely
and forever. Tim Staples stressed the importance
of doing good works to maintain a
salvation that begins with the sacrament of
water baptism. Mr. Staples continually denied the
Gospel’s promise of eternal, everlasting life.
“Let God be found true and every man be
found a liar” (Rom. 3:4).
In this debate, Mike Gendron’s goal was to glorify our
Lord Jesus Christ by focusing on His perfect,
sufficient and finished work of redemption
which is able to save sinners completely
and forever. Tim Staples stressed the importance
of doing good works to maintain a
salvation that begins with the sacrament of
water baptism. Mr. Staples continually denied the
Gospel’s promise of eternal, everlasting life.
“Let God be found true and every man be
found a liar” (Rom. 3:4).
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NotWorthy
Guest
Perhaps Mr. Gendron (and you, too) is forgetting that Everlasting Life is a gift that can be given back. Surely, you’ve read parables such as the Prodigal Son which show that someone can lose their inheritance when they turn away from the Father.
… and how does this pertain to the topic?
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Johnh555
Guest
Perhaps Mr. Gendron (and you, too) is forgetting that Everlasting Life is a gift that can be given back. Surely, you’ve read parables such as the Prodigal Son which show that someone can lose their inheritance when they turn away from the Father.QUOTE]
So your telling me that the Lord God Almighty is an “Indian Giver?” Clearly the scriptures say Everlasting Life is NOT a gift that can be taken back, otherwise it would not be a gift. :banghead:
“…A still small voice “HAY YOU!”, if the Bible doesn’t back it, it seams quite clear perhaps it was the devil who wispered in your ear…”
Your confused
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Randy_Carson
Guest
An “Indian Giver” in the classic playground use of the term, is one who gives something to someone else and then takes it back from them.NotWorthy;2430854:
So your telling me that the Lord God Almighty is an “Indian Giver?” Clearly the scriptures say Everlasting Life is NOT a gift that can be taken back, otherwise it would not be a gift. :banghead:
“…A still small voice “HAY YOU!”, if the Bible doesn’t back it, it seams quite clear perhaps it was the devil who wispered in your ear…”
Your confused
The concept that Notworthy is speaking of occurs when the recipient of the gift rejects it and gives it back.
Salvation can be lost in this way.
Hope this helps. :tiphat:
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NotWorthy
Guest
Who said “it would be taken back”? As Randy pointed out, you seem to be misinterpreting what I said. And I should trust how you interpret the Scriptures?
As I stated earlier, how do you explain the Prodigal Son? To make it clearer, so that you don’t misinterpret it, the son squandered away his inheritance on sinful things. And only when he repented was he brought back into the family.
OK, now you’re just passing judgment. What does the Bible say about that?“…A still small voice “HAY YOU!”, if the Bible doesn’t back it, it seams quite clear perhaps it was the devil who wispered in your ear…”
Perhaps you are wrong. Judgmental, perhaps, but still wrong.Your confused
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Johnh555
Guest
The Prodigal Son has nothing to do with Everlasting Life being taken back, it speaks more about grace and mercy.
Not passing judgement, the scriptures exort us to test all things hold fast what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
Scripture also exorts us to test ourselves to see if we be in the faith as 2 Corinthians 13:5 says, “Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.”
Not passing judgement, the scriptures exort us to test all things hold fast what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
Scripture also exorts us to test ourselves to see if we be in the faith as 2 Corinthians 13:5 says, “Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.”
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NotWorthy
Guest
Interesting. You’ve got half of it right. You’re like the rich young man, whom Jesus told, “You are not far from the Kingdom of God…”.
But… I did not say Everlasting Life was “taken back”. I said it was “given back”.
Let me ask you something, John. Did the Prodigal Son have Everlasting Life while he was whoring around and working among the pig-sloppers?
Was the story simply, “Once a Child of God, always a Child of God”?
Or was it more like the son had to Repent and Turn back to the Father? Notice the Father’s Words: “because this son of mine was dead, and has come to life again; he was lost, and has been found.” The Son had lost his life that he had once had. Notice the Father said he “has come to life again”.
Let’s go to the tape:
Sounds like Judgment, or at least, jumping to conclusions. I’m not sure Jesus is very pleased with either one of these…Your confused
Yes, the Scripture says “Examine Yourselves”. Not “Examine Someone Else…”
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Johnh555
Guest
Both, 2 Timothy 3:16 says, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.”
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NotWorthy
Guest
Yes, but not for being Judgmental.
Reproof means to correct me if I’m wrong. Instruction in Righteousness begins with interpreting the Scriptures correctly. After three posts, you still think I’m claiming Everlasting Life can be “Taken Back”. I’ve never even hinted at that. That would be un-Scriptural.
But, telling me I should try reading the Bible daily is being presumptuous. That’s not included in Paul’s instructions to Timothy.
But did you intentionally gloss over the point on the Prodigal Son (not to be presumptuous, here)?
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Lampo
Guest
I cannot find this debate on Relevant Radio’s website. The archives go back only so far. Can anyone help? Thanks.
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gumbygo1
Guest
I created an account to download the audio archive. Since it doesn’t go back to 6/14 (the day of the debate) I just looked at the URL for one of the other files. I changed the URL to reflect the date. I’m downloading it now (not sure if it’s the right file for sure until I listen to it).
Try these:
relevantradio.streamguys.us/downloadfile.php?file=DM%20Archive/DM20070614a.mp3
relevantradio.streamguys.us/downloadfile.php?file=DM%20Archive/DM20070614b.mp3
relevantradio.streamguys.us/downloadfile.php?file=DM%20Archive/DM20070614c.mp3
Try these:
relevantradio.streamguys.us/downloadfile.php?file=DM%20Archive/DM20070614a.mp3
relevantradio.streamguys.us/downloadfile.php?file=DM%20Archive/DM20070614b.mp3
relevantradio.streamguys.us/downloadfile.php?file=DM%20Archive/DM20070614c.mp3
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Where or how does the CC contradict this ?
St. Paul’s own practice is not a doctrine - as well might one say that because he came from Tarsus, all other Christians must also come from Tarsus. Is his knowing someone named Timothy, a command to us to know people called Timothy ?
This is different from Apostolic succession - & difference is not the same as contradiction.
Eucharist as a reappearanceof Jesus to be worshiped
Heb. 9:26; Acts 1:11; Mat. 24:23, 27##That is not what the Eucharist is.
The reasoning which allows the Pope to be in authority over the whole flock of Christ, though he be not Christ Himself, is the same reasoning which allows human authority of any kind, whether in family, Church, or state. You’ve just shown that the authority of US Presidents is usurped - is that what you want to show 
?
Heb. 9:27 is irrelevant to this issue, & is not being denied anyway. The Deuteronomy passage is irrelevant, because it rebukes spiritism; & the CC’s veneration of God’s Saints is only spiritism if prayer to Christ is spiritism. The reason for this is, that the Blessed in Heaven have no life but Christ Himself, Who is the life of Christians on earth, as Scripture explicitly says. They & we live in the same Christ, therefore, we are in union with them.
Not sins, but imperfect saints. By all means criticise what we believe - but be sure that you know what we believe before you criticise; then we may get somewhere
It is no more repetitious than Psalm 136; if that is not forbidden, why is the Rosary ? Christ never condemned it, unless He condemned that Psalm.
He condemns the vain babbling that multiplies words as though God is attracted by long prayers merely because they are long; & not by short prayers which come from a humble & contrite heart - the attitude, not the verbosity, is what He approves. The Bible is full of attacks on the “worship” that is all appearance, without humility, obedience, love, or just treatment of others - to utter "Amen"s by the thousand on Sunday, & to oppress one’s employees on Monday, is an abomination. Our hearts must be as God-ward as our words, or they are nothing but impiety.
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jebeau
Guest
I am reading this blog because it started with comments about Mike Gendron debating Tim Staples. I’ve recently come in email contact with Mr. Gendron. (Last week, before I even found out about the debate.) I tried to engage Mr. Gendron in a discussion about the Rosary and the verses he used to argue were the same as the the ones this John555 guy is using.
I’m shocked at how easy it is to predict what these evangelical protestants will say about Catholicism. Really, it would be pretty easy to publish an encyclopedia with charts showing the accurate Catholic theological responses to each of these predictable strains of thought that bother the protestants. (This has probably already been done.)
When Mr. Gendron realized I was going to stay on the point and not let him lead me, and when I gave him loads of correct information, he simply cut off contact. I haven’t heard from him again. All I wanted to do was ask him to add to his teaching that the Rosary is a meditative prayer on scripture, and the prayers themselves are from scripture. (I didn’t expect him to be fair, but I wanted to see if he knew he was being unfair. He does.)
He was kind of condescending to me assuring me that he ALREADY KNEW the Rosary was a meditative prayer on the gospels, but when he teaches it to protestants, of course he won’t tell that part. Then he told me that I didn’t know the “true gospel” and that I didn’t know the “consequences of a bad choice”. I told him thanks for the concern, and that talking to him was allowing me to sharpen my understanding of my Catholic faith.
Maybe that’s why he cut me off. Either he’s given up on me and my salvation, or he’s realized I know my faith and he can’t hoodwink me, or maybe he didn’t want to be the catalyst for driving me into deeper understanding of my Catholic faith.
Anyway, all anti-catholics are predictable. Learn your faith and don’t be afraid of them. Be more afraid of just letting them go with NO correction at all. I doubt anything I said will change Mr. Gendron’s views, but I believe I was obedient to God in challenging him. He really though he could send me one copy of his outrageous newsletter and I’d actually say “Oh, dear! Thank you so much for teaching me the true gospel, I made a huge mistake in attending RCIA (not once but twice, once as a sponsor) and converting from fundamentalism, and reading the Church fathers, and listening to the Holy Spirit. Now that I’ve heard YOUR talk Mr. Gendron. . .well, I’ll just give up the Eucharist that has helped me not only straighten out my mind, but also understand the Bible in context for the first time. . .and all because of YOUR little newsletter, Mr. Gendron.”
Now, really, WHY would I want to put the scales back on my eyes?
Again, don’t be afraid of these anti-catholics. Learn your faith and have confidence that you and I are in the right place. Be as nice as you can be while giving them your best answer, knowing you are doing the right thing, whether they ever accept what you say or not.
I’m shocked at how easy it is to predict what these evangelical protestants will say about Catholicism. Really, it would be pretty easy to publish an encyclopedia with charts showing the accurate Catholic theological responses to each of these predictable strains of thought that bother the protestants. (This has probably already been done.)
When Mr. Gendron realized I was going to stay on the point and not let him lead me, and when I gave him loads of correct information, he simply cut off contact. I haven’t heard from him again. All I wanted to do was ask him to add to his teaching that the Rosary is a meditative prayer on scripture, and the prayers themselves are from scripture. (I didn’t expect him to be fair, but I wanted to see if he knew he was being unfair. He does.)
He was kind of condescending to me assuring me that he ALREADY KNEW the Rosary was a meditative prayer on the gospels, but when he teaches it to protestants, of course he won’t tell that part. Then he told me that I didn’t know the “true gospel” and that I didn’t know the “consequences of a bad choice”. I told him thanks for the concern, and that talking to him was allowing me to sharpen my understanding of my Catholic faith.
Maybe that’s why he cut me off. Either he’s given up on me and my salvation, or he’s realized I know my faith and he can’t hoodwink me, or maybe he didn’t want to be the catalyst for driving me into deeper understanding of my Catholic faith.
Anyway, all anti-catholics are predictable. Learn your faith and don’t be afraid of them. Be more afraid of just letting them go with NO correction at all. I doubt anything I said will change Mr. Gendron’s views, but I believe I was obedient to God in challenging him. He really though he could send me one copy of his outrageous newsletter and I’d actually say “Oh, dear! Thank you so much for teaching me the true gospel, I made a huge mistake in attending RCIA (not once but twice, once as a sponsor) and converting from fundamentalism, and reading the Church fathers, and listening to the Holy Spirit. Now that I’ve heard YOUR talk Mr. Gendron. . .well, I’ll just give up the Eucharist that has helped me not only straighten out my mind, but also understand the Bible in context for the first time. . .and all because of YOUR little newsletter, Mr. Gendron.”
Now, really, WHY would I want to put the scales back on my eyes?
Again, don’t be afraid of these anti-catholics. Learn your faith and have confidence that you and I are in the right place. Be as nice as you can be while giving them your best answer, knowing you are doing the right thing, whether they ever accept what you say or not.
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Memaw
Guest
##That is not what the Eucharist is. ## The reasoning which allows the Pope to be in authority over the whole flock of Christ, though he be not Christ Himself, is the same reasoning which allows human authority of any kind, whether in family, Church, or state. You’ve just shown that the authority of US Presidents is usurped - is that what you want to show
? Heb. 9:27 is irrelevant to this issue, & is not being denied anyway. The Deuteronomy passage is irrelevant, because it rebukes spiritism; & the CC’s veneration of God’s Saints is only spiritism if prayer to Christ is spiritism. The reason for this is, that the Blessed in Heaven have no life but Christ Himself, Who is the life of Christians on earth, as Scripture explicitly says. They & we live in the same Christ, therefore, we are in union with them. ## Not sins, but imperfect saints. By all means criticise what we believe - but be sure that you know what we believe before you criticise; then we may get somewhere ## It is no more repetitious than Psalm 136; if that is not forbidden, why is the Rosary ? Christ never condemned it, unless He condemned that Psalm.He condemns the vain babbling that multiplies words as though God is attracted by long prayers merely because they are long; & not by short prayers which come from a humble & contrite heart - the attitude, not the verbosity, is what He approves. The Bible is full of attacks on the “worship” that is all appearance, without humility, obedience, love, or just treatment of others - to utter "Amen"s by the thousand on Sunday, & to oppress one’s employees on Monday, is an abomination. Our hearts must be as God-ward as our words, or they are nothing but impiety.
Personally, I believe what they are trying to do to Christ’s TRUE Church, the Catholic Church, is vain babbling and one day they will have to stand before Our Lord and give a reason for all the hatred in their heart for His Church. The Bible does tell us that one day we will have to account for every word. Hatred, bitterness and lies is a sad substitute for the TRUTH.
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Memaw
Guest
Clever, Black Jaque, keep it up! They may get the point!
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Memaw
Guest
Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful!! jebeau,
I have “talked” many times with J.W.'s and Mormans and they have always, ‘walked away’ from me. (I live on a busy street and they are around often.) I have even talked to a young Moonie who told me he thought at one time he had a vocation to the priesthhood. and I told him to go call his MOM and go home, get out of that terrible web and run like Hell was after him. I hope and pray he did just that. I offered to let him use my phone, he was from another state.
It is soooo important that Catholics KNOW their faith properly in order to defend it today. There are soooo many great ways to get to know the Catholic Faith, EWTN is one way to start. and of course Catholic Answers and their many resources.
The reason why its soooo easy to predict what anti-catholics will say is because they have been saying them for 500 years. They have them down pat. IF you notice, most of the verses they misquote are the same ones they ALL use. They “think” they know the Bible when all they do know are twisted misquotes. I wonder if they even remember the 8th Commandment. There is a BIG difference between those that sincerely read the Scriptures and love Our Lord and try to live a holy life and those that deliberately go around bashing Christ’s Catholic Church. I have little patience with the latter.
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