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Hope1960
Guest
I don’t know, except the answers I’ve already given which seem superficial to you, I guess.
And I wanted to know how distant starlight can be explained in a Christian view.
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And I wanted to know how distant starlight can be explained in a Christian view.
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edward_george1
Guest
They’re not superficial, and I never said that. What I said is that your answers are peripheral to the real issue–the heart of this has nothing to do with beliefs or churches, and has more to do with your interior life.
The Christian view that explains distant starlight is that it’s really far away. The universe is huge, and old, and it’s full of stars, and it takes unimaginably large amounts of time for light, fast though it is, to traverse that huge universe. That’s that. It’s a perfectly reasonable thing to believe. St. John Paul II said that faith and reason are two wings by which the mind is carried aloft to God. We aren’t called to check our reason at the door of the Church. He also said that
What I’m getting at is that the problem is not with any particular belief or with anything going on in any church anywhere. What I’m getting at is that there’s something going on within you–and it can’t be dismissed so flatly as simply saying “I don’t know.” You owe it to yourself to know what’s going on, to know what’s leading you to keep this up like this, to keep seeking out things that excite you, to keep seeking out the assistance of your online acquaintances.
I really hope you understand that I care deeply about you and want you to find peace. If you were my parishioner, I’m fairly certain I’d be at this just the same as I am here, only in person.
The Christian view that explains distant starlight is that it’s really far away. The universe is huge, and old, and it’s full of stars, and it takes unimaginably large amounts of time for light, fast though it is, to traverse that huge universe. That’s that. It’s a perfectly reasonable thing to believe. St. John Paul II said that faith and reason are two wings by which the mind is carried aloft to God. We aren’t called to check our reason at the door of the Church. He also said that
So basically, if scientific observation tells us that the universe is huge and that starlight travels from really far away, it’s probably reasonable to believe that, and there’s no reason that should conflict with our faith. And as people of faith, we don’t even have to take Genesis literally or hold to a young earth or young cosmos. It would make more sense and seem more befitting of God that he would allow his creation to gradually, magnificently unfold. After all, to God, a thousand years is like a second, and a second like a thousand years–there is no time with God, he exists outside of time. But I digressScience can purify religion from error and superstition; religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes. Each can draw the other into a wider world, a world in which both can flourish…
What I’m getting at is that the problem is not with any particular belief or with anything going on in any church anywhere. What I’m getting at is that there’s something going on within you–and it can’t be dismissed so flatly as simply saying “I don’t know.” You owe it to yourself to know what’s going on, to know what’s leading you to keep this up like this, to keep seeking out things that excite you, to keep seeking out the assistance of your online acquaintances.
I really hope you understand that I care deeply about you and want you to find peace. If you were my parishioner, I’m fairly certain I’d be at this just the same as I am here, only in person.
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Hope1960
Guest
Thanks. I’ll give it some thought. I do have OCD and anxiety but I don’t know if this situation can be blamed on that, or not.What I’m getting at is that the problem is not with any particular belief or with anything going on in any church anywhere. What I’m getting at is that there’s something going on within you–and it can’t be dismissed so flatly as simply saying “I don’t know.” You owe it to yourself to know what’s going on, to know what’s leading you to keep this up like this, to keep seeking out things that excite you, to keep seeking out the assistance of your online acquaintances.
I really hope you understand that I care deeply about you and want you to find peace. If you were my parishioner, I’m fairly certain I’d be at this just the same as I am here, only in person.
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edward_george1
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I think that’s precisely what it seems to be, actually. I have some experience in working with people with those kinds of issues. If you’d like to message me privately to talk more, I’m happy to. It’s probably better not to talk about it in the open forum.
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Hope1960
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Ok. I’ll ttyl though, because hubbys coming home soon, then its dinny time.I think that’s precisely what it seems to be, actually. I have some experience in working with people with those kinds of issues. If you’d like to message me privately to talk more, I’m happy to. It’s probably better not to talk about it in the open forum.
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edwest
Guest
"The Time Question
“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”
“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”
- Catholic Answers
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Camehome4john6
Guest
Hope, I’m sorry that my comments were harsh.
I come at this from the angle of someone who left the RCC for 20 years and has reverted. The other church was so much more fun, tbh. But this one is true. I have a knee jerk reaction when I see others heading that way. Forgive me. I will pray for you.
I come at this from the angle of someone who left the RCC for 20 years and has reverted. The other church was so much more fun, tbh. But this one is true. I have a knee jerk reaction when I see others heading that way. Forgive me. I will pray for you.
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niceatheist
Guest
It strikes me that you feel some attraction to this particular branch of the Lutheran Church, but that it espouses some views on science that run counter to what scientists and supporters of scientists (including some Catholics here) are saying. I would never want to reject that a sense of not belonging is a trivial matter. I am an atheist, as you may have guessed, but my ex-wife was Catholic and I used to go with her and my daughters to the local Church, and honestly, I did find it someone inspiring (I guess I still have some left-over sense of spirituality from my younger days). In particular, I remember my daughters’ confirmation was quite a moment for a man that had left belief behind when he was 17. I have to say that if I were ever to shift away from my world view back towards faith, I would probably become Catholic. I have a great fondness and respect for the Church.
But back to my main point, that sense of belonging to me is critical, and if the Catholic parishes in your area don’t seem to offer that, then I can well understand why it would make you look elsewhere. I hesitate to give any person of faith advice, but have you talked to any priest about your concerns? As a person who left his own church, I can sympathize on a deep level with your conundrum.
What I would urge you to do is to look beyond superficial attractions. This particular Lutheran church seems to espouse some pretty dubious faux science, and thus I would question whether those positions are legitimate, or create controversy where none need exist.
But back to my main point, that sense of belonging to me is critical, and if the Catholic parishes in your area don’t seem to offer that, then I can well understand why it would make you look elsewhere. I hesitate to give any person of faith advice, but have you talked to any priest about your concerns? As a person who left his own church, I can sympathize on a deep level with your conundrum.
What I would urge you to do is to look beyond superficial attractions. This particular Lutheran church seems to espouse some pretty dubious faux science, and thus I would question whether those positions are legitimate, or create controversy where none need exist.
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Hope1960
Guest
I’ve believed in an old earth, old universe and evolution since I don’t know when but wanted to learn the other side of it but I guess it’s pretty clear that the earth/universe isn’t young and Adam and Eve didn’t just pop into existence as adults.What I would urge you to do is to look beyond superficial attractions. This particular Lutheran church seems to espouse some pretty dubious faux science, and thus I would question whether those positions are legitimate, or create controversy where none need exist.
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twf
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The Big Bang (or rather Cosmic Egg) model was even formulated by a Catholic priest… Monsignor Lemaitre.
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edwest
Guest
"Adam and Eve: Real People
"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).
"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” ( Humani Generis 37).
“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”
"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).
"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” ( Humani Generis 37).
“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”
- Catholic Answers
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Hope1960
Guest
Here we go again…
<<<<<<<<<<<<Concerning biological evolution, the Church does not have an official position on whether various life forms developed over the course of time. However, it says that, if they did develop, then they did so under the impetus and guidance of God, and their ultimate creation must be ascribed to him.
Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul . Pope Pius XII declared that “the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God” (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36). So whether the human body was specially created or developed, we are required to hold as a matter of Catholic faith that the human soul is specially created; it did not evolve, and it is not inherited from our parents, as our bodies are.>>>>>>>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<NIHIL OBSTAT : I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004
IMPRIMATUR : In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004>>>>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<<<<<Concerning biological evolution, the Church does not have an official position on whether various life forms developed over the course of time. However, it says that, if they did develop, then they did so under the impetus and guidance of God, and their ultimate creation must be ascribed to him.
Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul . Pope Pius XII declared that “the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God” (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36). So whether the human body was specially created or developed, we are required to hold as a matter of Catholic faith that the human soul is specially created; it did not evolve, and it is not inherited from our parents, as our bodies are.>>>>>>>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<NIHIL OBSTAT : I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004
IMPRIMATUR : In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004>>>>>>>>>
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Hope1960
Guest
Ok, thank you!Hope, I’m sorry that my comments were harsh.
I come at this from the angle of someone who left the RCC for 20 years and has reverted. The other church was so much more fun, tbh. But this one is true. I have a knee jerk reaction when I see others heading that way. Forgive me. I will pray for you.
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Gingersnaps4
Guest
What did you think of the link I posted last night, did you ever get the chance to read it?And I wanted to know how distant starlight can be explained in a Christian view.
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Hope1960
Guest
Sorry, I’ve only read part of it but will finish it.What did you think of the link I posted last night, did you ever get the chance to read it?
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Hope1960
Guest
I finished it. It was way over my head but I take it to mean that earth time, the universe is billions of years old like scientists say. Unlike the pastor I’ve been talking about says.
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