Time - for an IQ Test

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If you put this here to add to my point, I say:

Exactly. The negative numbers used are only for idealistic simplification. Negative quantities don’t physical world. 🙂
When you buy something in the physical world but don’t pay for it on the spot, it shows up as a negative number on your credit card. So it reflects a real life situation.
 
When you buy something in the physical world but don’t pay for it on the spot, it shows up as a negative number on your credit card. So it reflects a real life situation.
By physical I mean material. The financial world is still in the realm of ideas.
 
No. Money is more than an idea. It is a material instrument accepted as payment for goods and services.
Yes, but there is no such thing as “negative” money. The whole concept of credit is to make expressing the transfer of money between people more convenient. Credit is not material. To have negative credit is another of saying that money is owed. Money owed would be physical money absent. When you have positive credit, that means that the person owed has actual, physical money. Negative numbers are not used to represent actual, material quantities. They represent a lack or nonexistence.
 
That is by no means what I’m doing. 🙂
I start by assuming that time is infinite. Then I assume that the ball changes colors for all infinity. Then I assume that that ball must take time to change (how could something change in no time?). Next I assume that time is measurable (it has to be if any change is to occur). I acknowledge that when I measure this time, I am actually dividing the infinite quantity by a certain number to give me the measurement. But I realize, that infinity divided by any number, still yields infinity. If the time for the ball to change from one color to the next takes an infinite amount of time, then it would never reach the time for the change to occur. The only thing I envisioned was the most instantaneous switch of colors I could, in order to realize that even that took a certain amount of time. Everything else is purely mathematics.

This is exactly the problem. How do you divide infinity in such a manner as to get n equal amounts of 10 seconds? Every time you measure time, you are implicitly dividing all of time into equal parts of which have the same exact measurement which you measured. Following this, if time were infinite, the time for each change would also have to be infinite, which means that the change would never occur.

There are certain things in math that are present for idealistic simplification. For example, negative numbers do exist in math, but they don’t physically exist. The same could be said of infinity in a sense. But still, let us assume that infinity with certainty exists in the physical world. The distance between 10 infinity (which is simply infinity) and 5 infinity (which is also simply infinity) is infinity. If the distance between 10 infinity and 5 infinity is infinite, how do you get from one to the other?
Well, now I’m suspicious, so let me ask something different. Which of the 7 OP statements do you see as incorrect?

In the post above, you expressed the same mistake of equivocating that you had made with your “v = d/t” example. I explained your error in that one but you said that wasn’t what you were doing, so I asked for an example to picture. But then you say that is what you are doing either and repeat the first example again. So now I don’t really know if you are just playing a game intentionally or you just can’t stop your mind from equivocating.

The “t” in “v = d/t” refers to the time that something takes to travel a set distance d. Unless that distance is infinite, t is never infinite (zero v means that there is no travel). In the ball example, that “t” is never anything but 10 seconds and the rate (cycles per second) is expressed as “rate = 1/t”. I expressly pointed out that the number of cycles is infinite but that the duration of each never changes, thus that t never changes. No matter how many cycles you count, you can still add another. Looking backward, no matter how many cycles you count back, you can always count another one.

So are you serious or just playing equivocation games?
 
Well, now I’m suspicious, so let me ask something different. Which of the 7 OP statements do you see as incorrect?
My good friend, let me reassure your suspicion is misplaced.

As for your 7 OP statements, I saw them as flawless, but the mathematical problem its success causes has created a conflict.
In the post above, you expressed the same mistake of equivocating that you had made with your “v = d/t” example. I explained your error in that one but you said that wasn’t what you were doing, so I asked for an example to picture. But then you say that is what you are doing either and repeat the first example again. So now I don’t really know if you are just playing a game intentionally or you just can’t stop your mind from equivocating.
Let us review what was said. I said that if t were to equal infinity, then v would equal 0. Then you said that I must be confusing “time increases” with the “amount of time taken” for which I rightfully answered was semantics (it matters not whether I say “an increase from 0 to 6 seconds” or “an amount of time taken 6 seconds”). I made a transfer of information for which you asked: “How did you go from an infinite amount of time existing to everything in the universe taking an infinite amount of time? What does the existence of eternity have to do with how long it takes to drink a cup of coffee?” (I regret not answering that earlier, but I have answered it through other examples).
The “t” in “v = d/t” refers to the time that something takes to travel a set distance d. Unless that distance is infinite, t is never infinite (zero v means that there is no travel).
The distance could very well be 0 m, where the object is permanently at rest. But anyways, if the time that something travels cannot be infinite, and yet time as a whole is without beginning or end as you say (infinite), how can you measure one moment from the next? How do you measure time at all?
In the ball example, that “t” is never anything but 10 seconds and the rate (cycles per second) is expressed as “rate = 1/t”. I expressly pointed out that the number of cycles is infinite but that the duration of each never changes, thus that t never changes. No matter how many cycles you count, you can still add another. Looking backward, no matter how many cycles you count back, you can always count another one.
I answered this previously. If time is infinite as you assume, then every division of total time will yield infinity. In other words, if I could take the whole of infinite time and divide it into parts then each part would still be infinite. Every time you measure time, you are dividing all of time equally into parts which share the value of the measured time. If time were infinite and I divided it into x parts, I could never get a value of 10 seconds. I would always get infinity. We have previously agreed that nothing moves in an infinite amount of time. So therefore, the ball taking an infinite amount of seconds to change, would never do so. To answer the question of yours that I copied, that is how I made to connection between an infinite amount of time existing, to everything in the universe taking an infinite amount of time.
So are you serious or just playing equivocation games?
I am entirely serious and I think what appears to be equivocation, is only a misunderstanding.

On another note, since you brought it up, if the cycle of color changing goes from the present moment infinitely into the past, how does the present moment get reached. Just as you will never reach the beginning moment, neither would you reach the present one by moving forward.
 
I answered this previously. If time is infinite as you assume, then every division of total time will yield infinity. In other words, if I could take the whole of infinite time and divide it into parts then each part would still be infinite. Every time you measure time, you are dividing all of time equally into parts which share the value of the measured time. If time were infinite and I divided it into x parts, I could never get a value of 10 seconds. I would always get infinity. We have previously agreed that nothing moves in an infinite amount of time. So therefore, the ball taking an infinite amount of seconds to change, would never do so. To answer the question of yours that I copied, that is how I made to connection between an infinite amount of time existing, to everything in the universe taking an infinite amount of time.
And as I have explained. If you divide an infinite thing by and infinite number of divisions, you end up with a finite thing. The cycling is infinite. There are an infinite number of cycles through infinite time. That means that you have “inf/inf = undetermined”. The reason it is undetermined is that with only “inf/inf” you don’t have enough information to complete the solution, but it is finite, not infinite.
 
And as I have explained. If you divide an infinite thing by and infinite number of divisions, you end up with a finite thing. The cycling is infinite. There are an infinite number of cycles through infinite time. That means that you have “inf/inf = undetermined”. The reason it is undetermined is that with only “inf/inf” you don’t have enough information to complete the solution, but it is finite, not infinite.
Undefined is neither infinite nor finite since to yield such an answer defies logic. It’s the same reason that dividing any number by 0 gives you an undefined answer. Such an operation is logically impossible.
 
Undefined is neither infinite nor finite since to yield such an answer defies logic. It’s the same reason that dividing any number by 0 gives you an undefined answer. Such an operation is logically impossible.
It is logically possible if you are a logical thinker.

The only way to get an infinite number for that indeterminate is if the numerator is inf^2 or greater, but we didn’t specify inf^2, but merely inf.

The reason x/0 is “undefined” is that a zero division is meaningless, but an answer of inf, or boundless, usually suffices.

So it all works, quite logically. Mathematics hasn’t handled the issues of infinity very well, but it has nothing wrong, merely insufficient for some uses.

Infinite time divided by an infinite number of portions, yields a finite portion size… assuming that your first infinite declaration, infinite time, wasn’t infinite squared or higher and it wasn’t.
 
It is logically possible if you are a logical thinker.

The only way to get an infinite number for that indeterminate is if the numerator is inf^2 or greater, but we didn’t specify inf^2, but merely inf.

The reason x/0 is “undefined” is that a zero division is meaningless, but an answer of inf, or boundless, usually suffices.

So it all works, quite logically. Mathematics hasn’t handled the issues of infinity very well, but it has nothing wrong, merely insufficient for some uses.

Infinite time divided by an infinite number of portions, yields a finite portion size… assuming that your first infinite declaration, infinite time, wasn’t infinite squared or higher and it wasn’t.
Pardon my error. I was not thinking of infinities (I haven’t taken calculus yet), but rather an infinity (I’m in pre-calculus). Now that I think of it, I think this has been the problem the whole time. Sorry for wasting your time.
 
It is interesting that much of the consensus in this thread had deduced that time is eternal.
I believe it was Aristotle who concluded that the earth also was eternal. It was his opinion that only an eternal system could be behind all that was occurring.
We recognize the laws behind things but sometimes forget Who created the law itself.
At mass we pray the words “Through Him all things were made”. We present ourselves with truth in the forms of math and science but sometimes forget the Creator of these rules who supersedes that which He created by His supernatural nature. We are asked to “test everything” but also to 'know it by it’s fruit". The fruit of this thread has lead me to this conclusion:

Time is a condition of a created law which begins and ends with the Creator.

No other explanation will suffice, because of the mystery of His super-nature ( thus outside of all revealed laws of our nature).

Of those of you who are great minds in the deducing process, let me assure you that greater minds have and will muddle over this point and have/will come no closer to the truth than what I have said of it.

If you are credulous, than listen to this. One day, maybe a hundred or two hundred years from now, someone else will volley this idea through a system of minds. Do you think by that time, with all that new technology and science, this subject will have advanced far beyond anything you can imagine now? And will these same minds after reading this thread find our “ancient” puerile babbling amusing?
I think they will.
 
It is interesting that much of the consensus in this thread had deduced that time is eternal.
I believe it was Aristotle who concluded that the earth also was eternal. It was his opinion that only an eternal system could be behind all that was occurring.
We recognize the laws behind things but sometimes forget Who created the law itself.
At mass we pray the words “Through Him all things were made”. We present ourselves with truth in the forms of math and science but sometimes forget the Creator of these rules who supersedes that which He created by His supernatural nature. We are asked to “test everything” but also to 'know it by it’s fruit". The fruit of this thread has lead me to this conclusion:

Time is a condition of a created law which begins and ends with the Creator.

No other explanation will suffice, because of the mystery of His super-nature ( thus outside of all revealed laws of our nature).

Of those of you who are great minds in the deducing process, let me assure you that greater minds have and will muddle over this point and have/will come no closer to the truth than what I have said of it.

If you are credulous, than listen to this. One day, maybe a hundred or two hundred years from now, someone else will volley this idea through a system of minds. Do you think by that time, with all that new technology and science, this subject will have advanced far beyond anything you can imagine now? And will these same minds after reading this thread find our “ancient” puerile babbling amusing?
I think they will.
No. i don’t think that the earth can be eternal because of the second Law of Thermodynamics which posits the increase in entropy over time. Of course, the earth does eceive energy from the sun, and with this energy, life on the earth can be sustained. however, the sun will eventually die out due to the Clausius law, and thereafter, the earth as we know it will no longer exist.
 
No. i don’t think that the earth can be eternal because of the second Law of Thermodynamics which posits the increase in entropy over time. Of course, the earth does eceive energy from the sun, and with this energy, life on the earth can be sustained. however, the sun will eventually die out due to the Clausius law, and thereafter, the earth as we know it will no longer exist.
The “Second Law of Thermodynamics” is not a law, but a “tendency”. Maxwell explained how it could not be a law 130 years ago. Since that time, the “law” has been broken many times and thus has been rewritten many times and is now stated merely as a “tendency” or “generality”.
 
It is interesting that much of the consensus in this thread had deduced that time is eternal.
I believe it was Aristotle who concluded that the earth also was eternal. It was his opinion that only an eternal system could be behind all that was occurring.
We recognize the laws behind things but sometimes forget Who created the law itself.
At mass we pray the words “Through Him all things were made”. We present ourselves with truth in the forms of math and science but sometimes forget the Creator of these rules who supersedes that which He created by His supernatural nature. We are asked to “test everything” but also to 'know it by it’s fruit". The fruit of this thread has lead me to this conclusion:

Time is a condition of a created law which begins and ends with the Creator.

No other explanation will suffice, because of the mystery of His super-nature ( thus outside of all revealed laws of our nature).

Of those of you who are great minds in the deducing process, let me assure you that greater minds have and will muddle over this point and have/will come no closer to the truth than what I have said of it.

If you are credulous, than listen to this. One day, maybe a hundred or two hundred years from now, someone else will volley this idea through a system of minds. Do you think by that time, with all that new technology and science, this subject will have advanced far beyond anything you can imagine now? And will these same minds after reading this thread find our “ancient” puerile babbling amusing?
I think they will.
You reveal in that post, that you did not understand the OP and assumed it to be in conflict with Scripture. It isn’t in conflict with Scripture. Your understanding is. :o
 
The “Second Law of Thermodynamics” is not a law, but a “tendency”. Maxwell explained how it could not be a law 130 years ago. Since that time, the “law” has been broken many times and thus has been rewritten many times and is now stated merely as a “tendency” or “generality”.
Perhaps you have not heard of a scientist by the name of Albert Einstein. I would like to refer you to an article on professor Einstein here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein
In case you did not know, he has published more than 300 scientific papers and over 150 non-scientific papaers and he is known as the father of modern physics. Here is what he has had to say about the Laws of thermodynamics:
“It is the only physical theory of universal content which I am convinced, that within the framework of applicability of its basic concepts, will never be overthrown.”
Since apparently you disagree with professor Albert Einstein on this, I wonder if you have published the research and results which leads to this earth shaking discovery of yours.
 
Perhaps you have not heard of a scientist by the name of Albert Einstein. I would like to refer you to an article on professor Einstein here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein
In case you did not know, he has published more than 300 scientific papers and over 150 non-scientific papaers and he is known as the father of modern physics. Here is what he has had to say about the Laws of thermodynamics:
“It is the only physical theory of universal content which I am convinced, that within the framework of applicability of its basic concepts, will never be overthrown.”
Since apparently you disagree with professor Albert Einstein on this, I wonder if you have published the research and results which leads to this earth shaking discovery of yours.
It was hardly MY discovery, although I was actually one of many. I designed (circa 1972) one of the many ways the “law” has been broken. You worship Einstein too much. He was wrong about many things. Many people, including Science are aware. Maybe you should update and read more before you preach your faith.
 
It was hardly MY discovery, although I was actually one of many. I designed (circa 1972) one of the many ways the “law” has been broken. You worship Einstein too much. He was wrong about many things. Many people, including Science are aware. Maybe you should update and read more before you preach your faith.
Yes, perhaps you are right and professor Einstein, the Father of modern physics, is wrong. Do you have the link to your research paper disproving professor Einstein? How many published papers do you have in this area?
 
Yes, perhaps you are right and professor Einstein, the Father of modern physics, is wrong. Do you have the link to your research paper disproving professor Einstein? How many published papers do you have in this area?
I was an Engineer actually designing the things. I don’t publish papers on speculations and theories. I designed what needed designing. I thought at the time that I had discovered something new, but then found that many before me already new the law wasn’t real. Since that time the breaking of it is common industry practice. It hardly needs the approval of Sciencism.

And Einstein wasn’t the “Father of Modern Physics”… give me a break and stop worshiping Sciencism. :rolleyes:
 
The ‘merely’ shouldn’t be behind ‘tendency’, because effects of that tendency are anything but mere.
 
The ‘merely’ shouldn’t be behind ‘tendency’, because effects of that tendency are anything but mere.
Granted, it isn’t easy to break, but a “law” in physics was SUPPOSED to be something NEVER broken or breakable. How is it a law of reality if it is breakable at all?
 
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