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TwoDachshunds
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I think you’re being overly sensitive.
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NCSue
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Hi there.
I’m a convert and had never heard the expression “cradle Catholic” until it was used by many, many people who had been born and raised in the Church. I would never speak of so-called “cradle Catholics” disrespectfully; they have been patient with my questions, taught me about the faith, and welcomed me into the fold.
I’m a convert and had never heard the expression “cradle Catholic” until it was used by many, many people who had been born and raised in the Church. I would never speak of so-called “cradle Catholics” disrespectfully; they have been patient with my questions, taught me about the faith, and welcomed me into the fold.
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irishpatrick
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Perhaps, but obviously I do not think so…
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IWillBeHeard
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Let me tell you about the new rules on here…
- If you support any sort of view that is different than what the mods believe, you will be banned. Discussion is not open for different and new ideas. Even if Catholicism is making a mistake, we support tradition.
- Everything the Catholic Church has ever done has been infallible. Therefore, there is no need for you to question anything about Catholicism, the Church is perfect. If the Church told you to kill someone, you should do it, no questions asked.
- Any rude and ignorant comments to others stating “You are not a true Catholic if you voted for Obama” will be accepted and is encouraged.
- God didn’t give you this conscience to use for yourself. You must substitute other peoples judgment for your own, and never question them, because their judgment is better.
- If you child someday asks you if they should use a condom, you should tell them “No, let yourself get HIV instead.”
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Mommomamats
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As a convert, I have never thought of nor have I used the term cradle catholic condescendingly.
However, my use of the phrase “cultural catholic” is another story.
However, my use of the phrase “cultural catholic” is another story.
You have got to be kidding me, 1 year is already too long for someone to be accepted into the church. I don’t understand why people seeking to become catholic must wait so long before being baptized, why not experience the Graces that flow through that sacrament as soon as you come to believe? Like, you know, in the bible? Maybe that’s why people fall away so fast, they have to wait a year to experience the sacraments, then they get the slam dunk and are left to themselves. The year of RCIA should be on-going with the reception of the sacraments during the process. Just my humble opinion.
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PrayHarder
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I thought that was the connotation of “cradle Catholic.” It’s not referring to people who were born into the Catholic faith and actively practice it, but to that group that do not practice. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it use to describe an devout, practicing Catholic who just happened to be born into the faith.
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NCSue
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Interesting.
The only way I’ve ever heard it used was in reference to people who’d been born and raised in the Catholic church, whether or not they were especially devout. Most of the people I know who refer to themselves as “cradle Catholics” are people who are both devout and practicing, however.
I wonder if this term means different things in different geographical locations or something? Here in North Carolina, I’ve never heard the expression used in a disparaging manner and have never heard anyone take offense at it.
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quiet52
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I was still in the cradle when I was baptized – I’ve always called myself a cradle Catholic.
And as one, there have certainly been times I’ve felt regret for my lukewarmness and ignorance about the faith – and huge pangs of jealousy toward those who were well-catechized (whether cradle Catholics or not).
You have some good points here – I have much gratitude for knowing and being inspired by “CC’s” who were earnest and knowledgeable in faith – and much gratitude toward those received into the Church later on in their life.
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quiet52
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If this is true, it is indeed sad. Where do you get this statistic? What are the reasons?
I haven’t heard this. And who is “Rome”? I’m wondering if you can provide a source for this?
I would hate to hear a parish announcement next year: “From now on, because we can’t keep our converts beyond a year, we are adding on a year to RCIA to keep them from falling away.”
I don’t know that it’s as important for the catechumens and candidates to experience everything in the Liturgical Year, as it is for them to have the teachings and practices of the faith explained to them well. Teaching “about” the Liturgical Year would be important of course.
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dzheremi
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I would have loved to have two years in RCIA, and I very nearly did (came to the Church too late to be recieved during that liturgical year, so I had to wait for the next one to begin RCIA, and then it was a year from that point)!
Re: “Cradle Catholics”…I’d never heard of it before coming to this place. What can I say? I’m still new. I never took it to be in any way pejorative, either. Seems like a short way to say “I grew up Catholic” (whether or not you are one now, I guess). I’ll keep that in mind from now on, though. Thanks, IrishPatrick.
Re: “Cradle Catholics”…I’d never heard of it before coming to this place. What can I say? I’m still new. I never took it to be in any way pejorative, either. Seems like a short way to say “I grew up Catholic” (whether or not you are one now, I guess). I’ll keep that in mind from now on, though. Thanks, IrishPatrick.
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jmcrae
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When the Church began to experience the phenomenon of “lapsi” (recently baptized Catechumens who renounced the Catholic faith under torture) during the period of the persecutions of Nero, the RCIA actually became between three and seven years long, depending on the location - for exactly the same reason - to ensure that people understand precisely what it is that they are getting into, when they enter the Catholic Church.
People today aren’t being physically tortured, nor being fed to lions, but even still, their faith is under attack from every angle, and if they don’t know the precepts and the teachings, then they can be so easily pulled away - and often, it is based on a misconception, rather than on something that is actually true about the Church.
For example, I met someone once who fell away from the Church three months after she was baptized, merely because she couldn’t remember how to go to Confession. She knew that she had committed a sin, and was not able to receive Holy Communion, but she was so terrified of telling the priest that she didn’t know how to say her prayers, that she just quit coming to Church, rather than go to Confession and ask the priest to help her to say her prayers - except that the whole point of why we go to Confession with the priest is so that he can help us with everything - including helping us to remember how to say our prayers. But I think she was under the impression that the priest was going to get mad at her, or something.
We do have the Period of Mystagogia, which is supposed to last between six weeks and year after the reception of the Sacraments of Initiation, but it’s difficult to get people to attend, once they’ve “gotten the prize.”
Those who do attend become the staunchest supporters of the Church - they’re the ones who get into volunteering, and who spread the Gospel from where ever they are - but we have so many people coming through RCIA just to be able to marry in the Church, or to get their kids into Catholic school, and once they have their Certificate of Baptism, they feel that they have what they came for.
I think that a longer process of RCIA would help these people to reach a deeper level of conversion, so that they wouldn’t fall away the minute their Catholic wedding is over, or their kid is accepted into school.
Take it up with the Pope. Who knows; maybe he would consider the idea.
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jmcrae
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A lot of it is because so many people are joining the Church for utiliarian reasons (to be able to marry a Catholic in the Church, or to be able to send their children to Catholic schools) rather than because they love Jesus and want to be part of His Church.
And even those who are converting for the right reasons, it still takes them a long time to learn things. Too often, for example, when we go to ask people who they want for their Patron Saint, even after discussing the subject for two weeks in a row, they have this blank stare and have no idea what you are talking about - they “got” the intellectual part of the lesson on Saints, but had no idea that it had anything to do with them - and it’s not because the Catechist didn’t tell them, but they were just unable to absorb the information because they’ve absolutely never encountered this idea before, and it just takes that amount of time to process the information and internalize the concept.
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
I’m hearing it from our Diocescan Coordinator of Adult Formation and Liturgy. Her contact information is on the Calgary Diocese web site. (Please address her respectfully, and with an attitude of “getting information” - she already gets as much protest mail as she can handle.)
They would probably not phrase it like that, but yes, over time, you will see your RCIA extended, until finally it reaches two years long. The first thing that will change is that the Period of Inquiry will be run separately from the Catechesis, so that those who need to stay in Inquiry can do so, rather than everyone being rammed through it in less than six weeks, as happens with the September to Easter model.
The Liturgical year itself is a teacher - if you learn all of the themes that are presented over the course of the 52 weeks of the year, you will encounter every teaching of the Church at least once. Doing it for two years would ensure that if you were sick or distracted the first time through, that you would have the opportunity to encounter it again. Obviously, though, in order to be able to receive the teaching, someone has to be there to explain it to you, so the RCIA sessions would still be very important.
For example, All Saints Day can seem like a quaint but unnecessary little custom, until someone breaks open the meaning for you - and the fact that the whole Church is celebrating it makes it seem more relevant, and not so much like a make-work lesson to be skipped in favour of a favourite TV show, or whatever.
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SuscipeMeDomine
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Rather than adding a year, I’d be happy if parishes actually provided a full year in the catechumenate as is already called for. In too many parishes that I know of, RCIA starts with Inquiry in the Fall and people are baptized the following Easter. That means the catechumenate runs from about December through February – and that’s way too short for people to absorb much of anything. Then it’s Lent and the catechumens are moved into the period of purification and enlightenment.
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jmcrae
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Right, and the two-year process that I’m thinking of includes this one full year of Catechesis, with an Inquiry period of undetermined length before-hand (it is supposed to be as long as the Inquirer needs it to be, to answer his initial questions before making an initial decision to receive the Rite of Acceptance and enter into Catechesis; there should not be “automatic graduations” into the period of Catechesis - the people need to know what is expected of them, and be willing to do it), plus the six weeks of Purification and Enlightment during Lent, followed by the Period of Mystagogia, again, of unspecified length (but at least six weeks, from Easter to Pentecost).
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ElizabethPH
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The group of Catholics that do not practice, I thought was referred to as ‘fallen away Catholics’…and then there are Cafeteric Catholics, who actually still practice but with beliefs contrary to the Church.
Cradle Catholics just being those who were born into the faith, bapized and raised Catholic; who still practice and can be very devout. They may be also of a group that have fallen away at one point and returned which I have heard referred to as ‘reverts’. But still Cradle Catholics none the less.
my goodness all these labels make my head spin. :hypno:
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Thomas63116
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I have always thought this term was simply a neutral descriptor for people raised in the faith, to distinguish from those who converted later in life. I’ve never thought this term had negative connotations.
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irishpatrick
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People in the early Church did not have to wait for years to enter the Church…we should keep that in mind.
If people fall away, then they fall away. Yet, unfairly postponing graces for people just because we want everyone to have a theology degree is wrong imo. We must not get too carried away with our own tehological knowledge. Jesus called people to believe in Him, to be baptized by water and spirit, to follow Him, to pick-up our cross every day, to love each other as we love ourselves, to repentance and confession, and to receive His Body and Blood. Jesus did not require theology degrees, nor should we.
We want to make it easier to enter the Church, not harder. Jesus opened the gates to everyone and we should tread carefully when we try to semi-close those gates.
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convert999
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I’m a brand-new Catholic. I had a fair theological backround as a Protestant, and I read extensively before I decided to start RCIA. Even so, I was frequently “lost on the language” of Catholicism (I still am, frequently.) Little things can throw me for a loop, like when I was helping decorate the church for Easter. Other women would say, Debbie, hand me that ______, please, and I would never know what they were talking about! Things like novenas and indulgences are still confusing to me. However, the problem I would have with a longer RCIA is that receiving the Sacraments actually helps me understand things I was confused about before. I understand Marian concepts much better than I did even a few weeks ago, and the only explanation I have is that being confirmed and receiving the Eucharist has given me a deeper understanding of certain things. If I had continued in RCIA for another year without the Sacraments my understanding would not be any further along. Our parish only has one week of Mystagogia, and I would like to have that for a longer period. Now I have new questions that I never had during RCIA, and it would be nice to have a structured setting in which to ask them.
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estesbob
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I am a "cradle"Catholic and never thought it was a derogatory term in any way. I have never heard it used that way.
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mullenpm
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I was born and raised as a Catholic by a mother who was a convert. I never heard the term “cradle catholic” until I started to post on this forum. I believe that to be a relatively newer term and I, for one, hate it because it has no meaning.
But, msugeotech, how can you possibly think that so-called cradle catholics are “poorly catechised”.
I went to Catholic grade school and was taught by Catholic sisters. We students went to Mass every morning before church and had catecism as our first subject of the day, we learned the prayers of the Mass in Latin. We had bible study classes, etc.
I am amazed when I read postings on this forum from Catholics who have ideas about the sacraments that differ radically from what I learned as a child in the 1930’s Catholic school.
So the poorly catechised are the generations of catholics who did not have the benefit of a catholic education as I did. People who say it is not necessary to make frequent confessions, just sprinkle holy water, or even one poster who thought it was not really a grave and mortal sin to miss Mass on Sunday.
Let’s drop the cradle catholic term and go back to saying we are Roman Catholic. Let’s be specific.
One poster on a thread on this forum said that the name Roman Catholic was thought up by protestants as a slur, which is ridiculous. I asked an elderly Priest about this and he agreed that it was not true. I have called myself Roman Catholic since I was a child and will continue to do so. It simply means that we are under the authority of, and in communion with, our Holy Father in Rome.
And let’s stop fighting and arguing about which Mass is the most reverent and about all the terrible things that have happened to the Church since V2. Nothing terrible has happened.:console:
Except, possibly, for all the so-called Catholics who voted for an abortionist to be President; and all the so-called Catholic politicians who have lost their faith.
But, msugeotech, how can you possibly think that so-called cradle catholics are “poorly catechised”.
I went to Catholic grade school and was taught by Catholic sisters. We students went to Mass every morning before church and had catecism as our first subject of the day, we learned the prayers of the Mass in Latin. We had bible study classes, etc.
I am amazed when I read postings on this forum from Catholics who have ideas about the sacraments that differ radically from what I learned as a child in the 1930’s Catholic school.
So the poorly catechised are the generations of catholics who did not have the benefit of a catholic education as I did. People who say it is not necessary to make frequent confessions, just sprinkle holy water, or even one poster who thought it was not really a grave and mortal sin to miss Mass on Sunday.
Let’s drop the cradle catholic term and go back to saying we are Roman Catholic. Let’s be specific.
One poster on a thread on this forum said that the name Roman Catholic was thought up by protestants as a slur, which is ridiculous. I asked an elderly Priest about this and he agreed that it was not true. I have called myself Roman Catholic since I was a child and will continue to do so. It simply means that we are under the authority of, and in communion with, our Holy Father in Rome.
And let’s stop fighting and arguing about which Mass is the most reverent and about all the terrible things that have happened to the Church since V2. Nothing terrible has happened.:console:
Except, possibly, for all the so-called Catholics who voted for an abortionist to be President; and all the so-called Catholic politicians who have lost their faith.
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