Tired of the phrase "Cradle Catholics"

[egodi]

CradIe Catholic is a term that I am very much at home with - seeing that I am one. I have always it as something real good!! If I can be truthful about it, I have always considered myself very lucky and superior to have been born a catholic and still practicing it all these while !!! Imagine what a loss it must have been to grow up without attending a Latin Mass, taking part in the Station of the Cross;Rosary or in all the Easter activities. Yes, I imagine it to be a big loss not to have been a cradle catholic. - I was therefore a bit surprised to read of it being used as a derogatory term. To those that denigrate the term, could it be that they are jealous of what they missed? Granted, there are a lot of taking things for granted by us the "“CCs” and also being lukewarm as against the fire and push of our protestant brothers, I always look at all their activities with a smug smile - satisfied with the belief that I have the best while they are struggling to come up to what I have. And that is the way I want to keep on seeing it - Cradle Catholics have it all and are not apologising about that. We cradle catholics, however, will do have a lot of work yet to do in terms of the impression we create. We have to show that we know what we have in the Church, defend it and live it. By so doing, those who did not the same advantage we had will see what they lack and strive to learn it - instead of denigrating us.

 

[MrsHall]

One of our RCIA teachers said he was “Catholic by Providence.” What a lovely way to phrase it.

 

[SeanTom]

If I am ever asked if I was a Cradle Catholic or a converted Catholic, I would say “Yes, I WAS a cradle Catholic, (or converted Catholic), but now I am a PRACTICING Catholic”.

What counts is what we are now, not what we were or how we got here, unless this information would be of some help to someone who is seeking to enter the Catholic faith.

 

[jmcrae]

People in the early Church did not have to wait for years to enter the Church…we should keep that in mind.

In some places, it was three years, and in other places, it was seven years. The Didache was written in 50 AD, and was used in conjunction with the Book of Sirach as the teaching text-book for RCIA - they did not whiz through those teachings in just a few weeks.

So, while it seems that the earliest converts in the first maybe ten years of the Church were converted instantly, by 50 AD, there was already an RCIA process of sorts in place. By the time of St. Cyril, it was already seven years long.

If people fall away, then they fall away. Yet, unfairly postponing graces for people just because we want everyone to have a theology degree is wrong imo.

Believe me, nobody is getting a Theology degree. The goal is, practicing Catholics who can articulate the 12 doctrines of the Apostles’ Creed, be able to say the Our Father, the Hail Mary, and the Act of Contrition, be able to recite in some order (it doesn’t even have to be the traditional order; they just have to know them), the five Precepts, the four Doctrines of Mary, the Ten Commandments, the seven Gifts, and the 12 Fruits, be able to explain who their Patron Saint is, at least have some idea of how to pray the Rosary and pray the Stations of the Cross, be able to give an outline of the order of the Mass, tell the meaning of the Eucharist, and know how to make a good Confession.

Sounds simple - sounds like stuff that people should be able to learn in a week or two, if they just sit down and read and study for an hour every evening.

You would be amazed at how long it really takes, just to get these bare basics.

 

[anjoh66]

I’m a convert, and have used the phrase before, but I never knew it could be disrespectful to some. Most of the cradle Catholics I know are very proud to be so. I’ve never used the phrase out of disrespect, and often wish I was one as well. It took me 34 years to come home to the Church, and couldn’t be happier.

But, thanks for brining that view up. I never thought it could be disrespectful, but I can see how - especially used in conjunction to reference those who are believed to be considered “poorly catechised”.

I dont think the phrase is disrespectful, but why do you wish that you was one as well?

It doesnt matter when you came into the faith, as infant or adult, the important is that you did.

Well still it is a fact that many converts or catechumens knows more about the catholic faith than those born into it.

Probably it is because of the eagerness and willing to learn more and more that often signifies the convert adult as he/she is doing it out of conviction and not tradition as is the case with many born catholics.

It is not possible to make any statistics about it because we only count converts and born catholics so of course it is just natural that those converts who are eager about the faith also get a lot of knowledge through catechesis and also by their own burning interesst about the faith.

Born catholics can not be measured like this because either they are into the faith and study it and learn more about it or they are on the other hand not caring about the faith at all, they are born into it and thats all.

I got a very good example, a peruvian family living here in sweden, once i asked the man why he doesnt attend mass, and the answer i got was: well it is hard here in sweden, not like peru where everybody is going.

I look upon that as both laziness and also lack of faith and interrest from them.

Then there are those who say straight forward that they dont believe but still they are counted as catholics as long as they didnt leave the church.

Thats why it is natural that the converts has a higher percentual rate of knowledge and practice of the faith than those born into it.

 

[anjoh66]

As a convert, I have never thought of nor have I used the term cradle catholic condescendingly.

However, my use of the phrase “cultural catholic” is another story.

You have got to be kidding me, 1 year is already too long for someone to be accepted into the church. I don’t understand why people seeking to become catholic must wait so long before being baptized, why not experience the Graces that flow through that sacrament as soon as you come to believe? Like, you know, in the bible? Maybe that’s why people fall away so fast, they have to wait a year to experience the sacraments, then they get the slam dunk and are left to themselves. The year of RCIA should be on-going with the reception of the sacraments during the process. Just my humble opinion.

Here in sweden it takes at least 2 years to get baptised and accepted into the church, the only way it could be speeded up is if someone is on the bed of death.

Also for the born catholics it takes 2 years for recieving the first communion and then another 2 years for the confirmation.

So i would say that the catechumens are doing it in half the time

I will tell you a parable about why it is like this:

"There once was 2 vicars and the first one said to the other: I got problems with pigeons in the clock tower, i tried to get rid of them by all means, i shot at them, i scared them, i even tried poisoned bread.

Oh said the other, i had the same problem in my church and like you i tried everything but nothing worked.
Then i got a idea, first i baptised them, then i confirmated them and after that day i never saw them again."

Well a story about the extremes but unfortunatelly many times that is exactly whats happening, many get confirmated just for the tradition, not out of faith.

Thats why its important for the candidates and catechumens to be well prepared, if they really wanna join the church they will.
In the meantime it is also mostly important for them to get the feeling that they are already a part of the church even before their baptism.

I have been saying this over and over again at this forum, they are already part of the church, and it is up to the parishers to make them feel that way, unfortunatelly it has all been misunderstood and everybody is running gauntlet for the easter vigil.

The already initiated must and i repeat MUST make the catechumens understand this, there should be no gauntlet for the easter vigil, it is much better it be delayed 2-3 years.

The best example that it should take time is the Lord himself, he didnt instigate the baptism and communion until 3 years of teaching had passed and he had fulfilled his mission.

 

[anjoh66]

why not experience the Graces that flow through that sacrament as soon as you come to believe? Like, you know, in the bible?

Well brother, I dont agree, nobody experienced the sacraments meanwhile the Lord was walking the earth, He instigated them after his ressurection except for the communion as the time was more proper before the crucifixion.

It is true that after him in time of the apostles people did recieve the sacraments quicker but still it was after they was taught about the faith and what it means.

Before i was of your opinion but i have came to understand why the delayance and also the importance to make the catechumens understand that they are already a part of the church even before they can recieve the sacraments.

 

[jmcrae]

The best example that it should take time is the Lord himself, he didnt instigate the baptism and communion until 3 years of teaching had passed and he had fulfilled his mission.

That’s a brilliant point.

 

[jenkiedad]

I have always thought this term was simply a neutral descriptor for people raised in the faith, to distinguish from those who converted later in life. I’ve never thought this term had negative connotations.

I agree. Of course, the term doesn’t necessarily imply that one is more spiritual than the other.

I have always been fascinated by the conversion stories of the many Apologetics at Catholic Answers. These are people that were very religious Protestants (I realize that there are a few “cradle Catholics” in that group), that after much study of scripture came to the intellectual conclusion that becoming a Catholic was the best way to become closer to Jesus.

In my Bible Study class, we always have an “ice breaker” where each discusses their background in the Catholic faith. I am truly impressed by those that relate personal conversion stories or stories where they’ve returned to the faith.

I’ve often asked myself, if I was not born into the Catholic faith and had instead been born into a Protestant home, or worse, into a home with no religious tradition at all, would I have found myself converting to become a Catholic? I really do not know that answer.

That is why I admire these types of converts. It is their hunger to learn scripture and become one with God; a spiritual awakening that most impresses me.

 

[egodi]

One of our RCIA teachers said he was “Catholic by Providence.” What a lovely way to phrase it.

What a lovely way indeed to phrase it. I think that about sums it up. We all are ‘‘Catholic by Providence’’. It is Providence that made some of us to be born, raised up and live their entire lives as believing and practicing Catholic. It is also this same Providence that - at the right time and place - brought some of us back and is still bringing back a lot more to the fold . Whether cradle or latter day catholics, we all need one another. We should try and reach to one another in love - and not in acrimony. Thanks to the merciful love of God that brought us into the Catholic Faith. May we all come to worship God in Spirit and truth, live examplary lives and strive for eternal life in the world to come. That is really what matters!!!

 

[Hater_free]

I think that the phrase causes a division as if there’s something that a “cradle Catholic” has that one that’s not cradle doesn’t have. God knows our hearts and all glory is for Him and not ourselves. God bless!!!

 

[Doni]

I spent nearly 15 years of my life in the Episcopal Church, and I often would hear the term “cradle Episcopalian” or (less often) “cradle Anglican.” Most of the ones who used that term were the “cradle people” themselves. But it was never used in a negative way.

When I first heard the term “cradle Catholic” I assumed it was meant the same way as “cradle Episcopalian.” Never occurred to me that there would be people offended by it. To me it is a neutral term, a descriptive term, meaning someone raised in that faith – like “cradle Lutheran” or “cradle Baptist” (and I’ve heard those terms also).

 

[jenkiedad]

I think that the phrase causes a division as if there’s something that a “cradle Catholic” has that one that’s not cradle doesn’t have. God knows our hearts and all glory is for Him and not ourselves.

I think you’re reading too much into this term. I agree with Doni. “Cradle Catholic” is a neutral term, comparable to “Cradle Episcopal”, “Cradle Anglican”, “Cradle Baptist”, etc. It’s just shorthand language to let somebody know your personal background.

Not wanting to prolong the possible agony of those so easily offended, how does one refer to those that were Catholic, but left the faith, and have now returned? I think a prime example of this would be Jeff Cavin, a renowned Apologist, who wrote a book about his experience in returning to the faith. Would Jeff call himself a “Returned Catholic” or a “Lost Sheep That Has Found His Way Back”?

 

[elts1956]

Many people speak of “Cradle Catholics.” The use of that phrase often comes from Protestant to Catholic converts, and the phrase rarely ever comes across well. Frankly, the use of that phrase often sounds condescending and a bit arrogrant with many converts acting as if they are somehow “better” Catholics then those born into the faith.

While it is quite true that many so-called “Cradle Catholics” are weak of faith and have even fallen away to other faiths (and in some cases fallen away to no faith at all); however, it is also true that literally millions of so-called “Cradle Catholics” are the very body of people who have helped keep the Church going so that Protestants and others still have a Church and faith to convert to.

In very large numbers so-called Cradle Catholics have done the following:

– Called for renewal of the Church to regain many lost practices.

– Called for the restoration of things like the Latin Mass and many other holy rituals and practices that have been all but lost.

– Called for a greater participation in the sacraments by all Catholics.

– Spent incalculable hours praying novenas and rosaries for loved ones in Protestant Churches and those outside the faith and even those in the faith. Many Protestants would not even be in the Church had some likely unknown person or group of people prayed for their conversion for years without fail.

– Spent hours in front the blessed sacrament praying for conversions in general and for renewal of the Church.

– Tried to maintain a holy life so that others might be moved by their example…being a strong witness to the faith.

The list can go on-and-on. So-called Cradle Catholics should not be looked down upon, they should be thanked and respected for the faith they have helped live so that there would still be a basic foundation to which non-Catholics can convert.

While a great many Catholics actually present themselves as needing evangelizing, so do Protestants and people of all other faiths. We all know that Jesus promised that the gates of hades would not prevail, yet that does not mean hades won’t try and it does not mean that in certain countries the faith cannot be nearly completely lost (look at much of Europe). Yet, in the United States the faith is nowhere near as bad off as in other countries and part of the reason for that is----Cradle Catholics!

Therefore, people might want to take a more gentle approach towards so-called Cradle Catholics, because Cradle Catholics have been here for a long time and we keep living our faith every day and we keep praying for people we know and love–every single day!

I AM A CRADLE CATHOLIC! and needless to say, am proud of it. My “opinion” is that before some of the clergy got all squirly after Vat. II, Catechesis of Cradle Catholics was much more to the truth of the Church’s eternal teachings than some of that given by well meaning and not so well meaning, clergy today. I think, and I believe,as the history of the Church has shown, when, after Vat. II, many Catholics thought they were being told, and maybe they were, that all they had to do was listen to their consciences and all would be well in the spiritual arena, they were deceived. Look at all the confusion being bandied about by not only the laity, but also some of the clergy, even those high in the Magisterium, regarding what is true/not true in the Church today.

Relativism has not only attacked the laity, but much of the clergy in society in the present. You can see this in those not taking a stand on particular issues which are a scandal not only to Catholics, but non Catholics as well.

Many Cradle Catholic are sometimes all we have to depend on to be reminded of the traditions and teachings we once held so strongly. Folks, THOSE were the days.

 

[elts1956]

Many people speak of “Cradle Catholics.” The use of that phrase often comes from Protestant to Catholic converts, and the phrase rarely ever comes across well. Frankly, the use of that phrase often sounds condescending and a bit arrogrant with many converts acting as if they are somehow “better” Catholics then those born into the faith.

While it is quite true that many so-called “Cradle Catholics” are weak of faith and have even fallen away to other faiths (and in some cases fallen away to no faith at all); :bigyikes: however, it is also true that literally millions of so-called “Cradle Catholics” are the very body of people who have helped keep the Church going so that Protestants and others still have a Church and faith to convert to.

In very large numbers so-called Cradle Catholics have done the following:

– Called for renewal of the Church to regain many lost practices.

– Called for the restoration of things like the Latin Mass and many other holy rituals and practices that have been all but lost.

– Called for a greater participation in the sacraments by all Catholics.

– Spent incalculable hours praying novenas and rosaries for loved ones in Protestant Churches and those outside the faith and even those in the faith. Many Protestants would not even be in the Church had some likely unknown person or group of people prayed for their conversion for years without fail.

– Spent hours in front the blessed sacrament praying for conversions in general and for renewal of the Church.

– Tried to maintain a holy life so that others might be moved by their example…being a strong witness to the faith.

The list can go on-and-on. So-called Cradle Catholics should not be looked down upon, they should be thanked and respected for the faith they have helped live so that there would still be a basic foundation to which non-Catholics can convert.

While a great many Catholics actually present themselves as needing evangelizing, so do Protestants and people of all other faiths. We all know that Jesus promised that the gates of hades would not prevail, yet that does not mean hades won’t try and it does not mean that in certain countries the faith cannot be nearly completely lost (look at much of Europe). Yet, in the United States the faith is nowhere near as bad off as in other countries and part of the reason for that is----Cradle Catholics!

Therefore, people might want to take a more gentle approach towards so-called Cradle Catholics, because Cradle Catholics have been here for a long time and we keep living our faith every day and we keep praying for people we know and love–every single day!

I AM A CRADLE CATHOLIC! and needless to say, am proud of it. My “opinion” is that before some of the clergy got all squirrally after Vat. II, Catechesis of Cradle Catholics was much more to the truth of the Church’s eternal teachings than some of that given by well meaning and not so well meaning, clergy today. I think, and I believe,as the history of the Church has shown, when, after Vat. II, many Catholics thought they were being told, and maybe they were, that all they had to do was listen to their consciences and all would be well in the spiritual arena, they were deceived. Look at all the confusion being bandied about by not only the laity, but also some of the clergy, even those high in the Magisterium, regarding what is true/not true in the Church today.

Relativism has not only attacked the laity, but much of the clergy in the present. You can see this in those not taking a stand on particular issues which are a scandal not only to Catholics, but non Catholics as well.

Many Cradle Catholic are sometimes all we have to depend on to be reminded of the traditions and teachings we once held so strongly. Folks, THOSE were the days.

 

[elts1956]

Many people speak of “Cradle Catholics.” The use of that phrase often comes from Protestant to Catholic converts, and the phrase rarely ever comes across well. Frankly, the use of that phrase often sounds condescending and a bit arrogrant with many converts acting as if they are somehow “better” Catholics then those born into the faith.

While it is quite true that many so-called “Cradle Catholics” are weak of faith and have even fallen away to other faiths (and in some cases fallen away to no faith at all); however, it is also true that literally millions of so-called “Cradle Catholics” are the very body of people who have helped keep the Church going so that Protestants and others still have a Church and faith to convert to.

In very large numbers so-called Cradle Catholics have done the following:

– Called for renewal of the Church to regain many lost practices.

– Called for the restoration of things like the Latin Mass and many other holy rituals and practices that have been all but lost.

– Called for a greater participation in the sacraments by all Catholics.

– Spent incalculable hours praying novenas and rosaries for loved ones in Protestant Churches and those outside the faith and even those in the faith. Many Protestants would not even be in the Church had some likely unknown person or group of people prayed for their conversion for years without fail.

– Spent hours in front the blessed sacrament praying for conversions in general and for renewal of the Church.

– Tried to maintain a holy life so that others might be moved by their example…being a strong witness to the faith.

The list can go on-and-on. So-called Cradle Catholics should not be looked down upon, they should be thanked and respected for the faith they have helped live so that there would still be a basic foundation to which non-Catholics can convert.

While a great many Catholics actually present themselves as needing evangelizing, so do Protestants and people of all other faiths. We all know that Jesus promised that the gates of hades would not prevail, yet that does not mean hades won’t try and it does not mean that in certain countries the faith cannot be nearly completely lost (look at much of Europe). Yet, in the United States the faith is nowhere near as bad off as in other countries and part of the reason for that is----Cradle Catholics!

Therefore, people might want to take a more gentle approach towards so-called Cradle Catholics, because Cradle Catholics have been here for a long time and we keep living our faith every day and we keep praying for people we know and love–every single day!

I think you’re reading too much into this term. I agree with Doni. “Cradle Catholic” is a neutral term, comparable to “Cradle Episcopal”, “Cradle Anglican”, “Cradle Baptist”, etc. It’s just shorthand language to let somebody know your personal background.

Not wanting to prolong the possible agony of those so easily offended, how does one refer to those that were Catholic, but left the faith, and have now returned? I think a prime example of this would be Jeff Cavin, a renowned Apologist, who wrote a book about his experience in returning to the faith. Would Jeff call himself a “Returned Catholic” or a “Lost Sheep That Has Found His Way Back”?

Revert?? I have seen that used. How about "I’m one of those blind, but now I see, persons’?

 

[kentuckyliz]

One must be wary of there being the implication that cradle Catholics don’t go through a conversion process of some sort. Conversion is a lifelong process. When one becomes an adult responsible for one’s own life and activities, the choice to continue being a practicing Catholic may not look obvious or earthshaking but it is a conversion moment itself.

I chose to leave off practice as soon as I could and my family couldn’t force me to go any more. I couldn’t wait to leave. So I know choosing to continue as a rock-steady, steadfast Catholic is a conversion.

 

[Cathhsmom]

I’ll admit it. I have used the term “cradle Catholic” in a derogatory manner. Usually, it has been when talking about how my dh wasn’t able to answer my questions about the Catholic faith before I converted. He falls into that category of not well catechised adults. When had a big argument about infant baptism before we were married. He wasn’t able to tell me why. All he would say was that he knew that they told him in CCD, but he didn’t remember why. It just was. You just accept it. Now, for someone like me who wants to know why and to be shown, that just did not work!

So, I’m sorry if the term offends you, but it does help when you are trying to explain to others why someone who is a Catholic very evidently doesn’t know what the church stands for or why. So, since I am now the mom of 4 “cradle Catholics”, I am making sure that my “cradle Catholics” don’t fall into the category of uninformed/ unformed Catholics. I don’t want them to be cultural or cafeteria Catholics either!

 

[jenkiedad]

I’ll admit it. I have used the term “cradle Catholic” in a derogatory manner. Usually, it has been when talking about how my dh wasn’t able to answer my questions about the Catholic faith before I converted.

Hey Navy Mom: As a “cradle Catholic”, and I was in your husband’s position, I would not have taken your comment as derogatory (perhaps that’s just my own Navy upbringing). BTW, just what is a “dh”? I presume it’s something like “devoted husband”, “darling husband”, or “devout husband”? I hope it’s not “dumb husband”!

 

[jbrewer]

Patrick,

I am coming into this thread very late but I just wanted to give a little of my story. I first converted from the Episcopal Church in my early twenties. I had become engaged to a lovely pious young lady who was a devout Catholic and she attracted me to the Church. I was very active as a Lay Minister for about 8 or 9 years. My engagement broke up but I continued in the Church for a about 4 more years.

I moved back from my college town to my home town. I searched for a Catholic Parish as “warm” as the one I had attended in Texas. I couldn’t seem to find one. I eventually left the Church for a “Spirit-filled” Protestant church where I remained for about 18 years.

Just this past March, I suffered a life-threatening illness and was saved, literally, at a Catholic hospital. EWTN was always on the television. Since that time I have been drawn back to the Church like a magnet. God has been working in me like never before and I weep for those lost Masses, the lost Rosaries, the lost Communion.

I have rejoined a local Parish and am beginning to find my place. Most important, I am home, where I belong, where I wish I had been since my time in the cradle. I find the term “cradle Catholic” to be an enviable state, a very desirable condition, most highly favored, as you are.

May the Lord bless you and keep you,
May He make His face to shine upon you,
May He lift His face to you,
And give you peace.

In Jesus Name,

John