TLM to be reintroduced into EVERY PARISH in England and Wales

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dauphin
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A stable group, according to the Cardinal, is three people. And they don’t all need to be from the same parish.

I also noted that he referred to it not as TLM or Tridentine, but Gregorian mass. I see this as a positive in that a new name, or at least one that is not widely used, subdues the notion of ‘going backwards’, but at the same time gives a classical feel by the connotation. Gregorian Chant.

One last question (I figure this will be a point of arguement) is that since the second vatican council allowed the use of the vernacular where needed, could the bishop give permission to the priests to say the Gregorian mass in their native tongue, especially if they have poor latin? If I recall correctly, Pope in the early 20th century permitted the readings to be done in the vernacular so people could follow along better. I might be mistaken. I’m only 24, so a lot of this is outside my personal experience. (P.S. I am one of the ones looking foward to the increased use of the Gregorian Mass in Latin.)
 
cothrige said:
I still think you are misreading this. As I understand it SP implies that without a stable group the bishop does not necessarily have to provide you with an EF Mass. That is not quite same as saying that he cannot, which seems to be what you are saying. He can make the EF Mass available if he so wishes, even without a stable group.
Click to expand...
I agree with your reading.

I think, if he wished, a Bishop could make every Mass in the EF. Look at Campos in Brazil, or ICRSS and FSSP. They have all masses in the EF, and that’s fine. Likewise, a territorial bishop could have all masses in the EF. What he **can not **do, is not offer the EF if there is lay demand for it.

SP gives the laity a right to the EF, it does not limit the EF to that minimal level.
 
bilop said:
I agree with your reading.

I think, if he wished, a Bishop could make every Mass in the EF. Look at Campos in Brazil, or ICRSS and FSSP. They have all masses in the EF, and that’s fine. Likewise, a territorial bishop could have all masses in the EF. What he **can not **do, is not offer the EF if there is lay demand for it.
Click to expand...
It seems you are seeing the same distinction I am, though I am curious as to how possible you really think it would be that a territorial bishop could really deny the OF to his diocese should he actually desire to do so? Wouldn’t SP itself, by using the label of ordinary and by defining the two forms as equally valid forms of the one rite seem to support that what is at least minimally the case for the EF, i.e. the people attached to it should not if at all possible be denied, would also be the case for the OF? I would be inclined to think that even should the EF come back very, very strong and numerically supersede the OF that form would still be expected by the Church to be made available for those who were then attached to it.

But, as for whether a Bishop can offer the EF if he wants, regardless of the demand for it, I agree entirely. I can see nothing in SP which seems to restrict his freedom to make available all the forms he thinks the people would find benefit from, even in the people don’t think that they would.
 
jeanannemarie said:
Maybe it’s just a rumor, but I have heard that where the Institute of Christ the King starts a Church, attendance grows rapidly, especially among the young.
Click to expand...
Seeing as how I go to an ICKSP parish, I’ll confirm this.

Never in my life, was I ever in a Church that large, that full, and that vibrant. The Institute serves the whole spectrum of age. There are many more young people at this Church than ones I’ve been to in the past, but there are also many more older people. There are more people period.

They took a closed down parish and turned it into the most vibrant in the archdiocese. They renovated the Oratory, beautified it, and now they may build a school. The ICKSP focuses a lot on the artfulness of the liturgy. People drive two hours sometimes to come. It’s a really blessing to live in this city where we have access to them.
 
cothrige said:
It seems you are seeing the same distinction I am, though I am curious as to how possible you really think it would be that a territorial bishop could really deny the OF to his diocese should he actually desire to do so? Wouldn’t SP itself, by using the label of ordinary and by defining the two forms as equally valid forms of the one rite seem to support that what is at least minimally the case for the EF, i.e. the people attached to it should not if at all possible be denied, would also be the case for the OF? I would be inclined to think that even should the EF come back very, very strong and numerically supersede the OF that form would still be expected by the Church to be made available for those who were then attached to it.

But, as for whether a Bishop can offer the EF if he wants, regardless of the demand for it, I agree entirely. I can see nothing in SP which seems to restrict his freedom to make available all the forms he thinks the people would find benefit from, even in the people don’t think that they would.
Click to expand...
I think it is very, very unlikely that a territorial Bishop would do this today. In the future, ???.

The point is, though it is unlikely, I don’t think there is any right guaranteed to the OF. There is no SP-equivalent for the OF.

God Bless
 
I just saw this on the CWN website and I am THRILLED!!

Ahem. Sorry for shouting. 😊

This is absolutely wonderful news. 🙂

Thanks be to God.
 
Consider the irony of this. England - historically Catholic - whose King Henry VIII was considered Protector of the Church (I may be off on that terminology) - then gone Protestant - but now the first - even before the U.S. - to have the TLM in every parish - and with the marvelous instructions you’ve mentioned for priests to be trained in.

Praise God from Whom all blessings flow !

America - take a lesson!
 
I wonder how this will all play out?. The Latin Mass Society does a great job promoting the Extraordinary Form. But what are the feelings of the clergy in the UK as a whole?. It will be very interesting to see what happens in the UK. On one hand you have the Anglicans who are searching for some sort of identity, and on the other hand you have The Catholic Church in the UK which has much to offer the country, but is split between tradition and secularism. Pretty much the same conditions here in the US. I don’t have much hope in the Lambeth conference in regards to the Anglicans returning to their Catholic roots. So what will be the future of the UK. Will the Catholic Church, become the dominant form of Christianity in the UK once again, and if it does, will it be a traditional Catholic Church, or just a secular church going down the same paths that the Anglicans did, in regards to identity and moral issues. I do pray that the Catholic church in the UK once again establishes itself as the dominant form of Christianity in the UK and also returns to it’s traditional Catholic roots. I’m also still hoping for the return of a Cardinal Archbishop in Cantebury and York. But that is a only a hope, which may never happen.
 
Dauphin said:
I can barely believe it :D. From Fr. Z:

"Damian Thompson covers and comments on the Pontifical Mass celebrated by His Eminence Dario Card. Castrillon Hoyos in Westminster Cathedral.

My **emphases **and comments.

Latin Mass to return to England and Wales
By Damian Thompson

The traditional Latin Mass – effectively banned by Rome for 40 years – is to be reintroduced into every Roman Catholic parish in England and Wales, [Get that?] the senior Vatican cardinal in charge of Latin liturgy said at a press conference in London today. [This was stated by someone who knows what he is talking about. He wouldn’t have said it if it was according to the Holy Father’s will. how can we knwo this? He made a similar statement before. Review http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/05/pceds-card-castrillon-hoyos-celebrate-tlm-in-parishes-even-when-it-isnt-requested/”]this. If the Secretariate of State or the Holy Father had a problem with what Card. Castrillon said back then, he wouldn’t be saying it in public now.]
Click to expand...
In addition, all seminaries will be required to teach trainee priests how to say the old Mass so that they can celebrate it in all parishes. [Get that? Will… be… required…. ]

Catholic congregations throughout the world will receive special instruction on how to appreciate the old services, formerly known as the Tridentine Rite."

Full Story:

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/06/uk-card-castrillon-hoyos-tlm-in-“not-many-parishes-–-all-parishes/

This is magnificent news! What fantastic things our Pope is doing for Tradition!

Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia!!!
I can’t wait until we have this here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top