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mikew262
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You go girl!!! :clapping:That teaching that all who are not Catholic go to hell is NOT from the Church Christ established! :nope:
I’ll keep saying this til my fingers go numb from typing!
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KindredSoul
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Oh boy does that ever hold meaning for me, Steven! I haven’t taken my first communion yet, and I can’t wait! Whatever else is true of Protestants, in relevance to the topic, they’re missing out on the Real Presence in the Eucharist. That in itself is a tragedy worth being saved from, quite aside from the question of whether or not it’s possible for Protestants to go to Heaven. Even if I somehow die soon, before taking communion, I have experienced the reality of Christ bodily present in Adoration, and I wouldn’t trade that for anything I had as a Protestant! I know that sentiment will grow in leaps and bounds when I finally take communion!
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MrS
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StevenFrancis
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Kindred:
I pray that all people will one day have a chance to feel this. I also began to sense this feeling long before my first communion. It was so profound for me, that I stayed on with RCIA after my confirmation and mystagogy, and remain on the RCIA team as my primary ministry to this day. The main reason is the incredible joy and validation I feel when I see someone else getting to experience communion for the first time. I still get goosebumps every single time that I receive, or visit the blessed sacrament. During the Mass, when the Priest holds up the host and the cup to the congregation and says “This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to his supper.” I feel like crying with joy. My knees actually get weak. I’ve never felt anything like this in all my years as a Buddhist or a Lutheran. It just didn’t happen. Jesus Christ. My Lord and My God…really present right there at the altar. And I get to be one with him? Me? This wretched sinner? He loves me so much that he guided me to his Church in spite of all my faults? And then, if that weren’t enough I’ve been blessed with the ministry of an RCIA catechist, so I can nurture and witness the conversion experiences of my brothers and sisters. I watch the change in their faces. The way they walk. The way they talk and act. I get to hear their laughter and tears. It completes my life. My wife converted at the same time I did, and she is also involved in RCIA ministry. We were given each other in way that has taken on a richer meaning then ever before Each time I celebrate the sacrafice of the Mass, I get a glimpse of paradise, and I wonder how there was ever a moment that I doubted this. God bless and keep you, and may he continue to fill you with his goodness. We look forward to you joining us at the table with wide open arms!!
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KindredSoul
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Thanks, guys!
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Sixtus
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perhaps because they don’t have one !!!
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Caesar
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I have never professed anything offer then the Dogma Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus- There is no salvation outside the Church.
Interpret it however you want, be however liberal in that interpretation as you wish, but if you deny a Dogma then anathema sit- and that is what the Church teaches.
Interpret it however you want, be however liberal in that interpretation as you wish, but if you deny a Dogma then anathema sit- and that is what the Church teaches.
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KindredSoul
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I’m not sure what “anathema sit” means, but I’m thinking we all agree on this. Good for us!
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Caesar
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Anathema sit is a phrase that appears after many canons, “let him be anathema (excommunicate)”. Basicaly, it is automatic excommunication, which one can incurr for various things, mostly rejections of key beliefs, including all Dogmas. If someone dies in a state of excommunication they cannot achieve salvation.I’m not sure what “anathema sit” means, but I’m thinking we all agree on this. Good for us!
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KindredSoul
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Thanks! That’s more or less what I thought.
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Caesar
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That is why, even though I personally take a more or less traditional view of the Dogma Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, I still separate the non-Catholics who have never known the Catholic Faith from those who have openly rebelled against it.
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EssentialsUnity
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Ok, I haven’t read all the rest of the responses yet, but I have to reply to this real quickly.
Wow. So a “good protestant” that Loves and follows the Lord Christ with all their heart, visits God in prayer everyday, embraces the Holy Trinity, and tries fervently everyday to walk as Christ walked…they are equally as bad as a “cafeteria Catholic”? That is amazing and you should be ashamed.
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Unitas
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I as well. So why were we bickering??
Oh well, silliness I guess.
Peace to you, Caesar.
I think the important issue here is not the dogma itself. That cannot be changed. But what constitutes being “outside of the Church” specifically.
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rr1213
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Ah, Grasshopper…but you forget! Said Protestant, while a faithful disciple of Christ, is not a card carrying member of the One True Church.
(Now you’ll get the posts saying that if the Protestant was truly a faithful disciple of Christ he should be within the Church). Welcome to the forums btw.
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MrS
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I would guess that a vast majority of “protestants” are not really protesting anything (except for their common belief that the Catholic Church is wrong, and one of them is right)Ah, Grasshopper…but you forget! Said Protestant, while a faithful disciple of Christ, is not a card carrying member of the One True Church.
(Now you’ll get the posts saying that if the Protestant was truly a faithful disciple of Christ he should be within the Church). Welcome to the forums btw.
However, now 450+ years later, we have generations of protestants who simply accept the long standing erroneous teachings of their “magisterium”.
Virtually none of the many faith communities correctly understand John 6
as the Apostles did,
the Early Church did,
the Church Fathers did,
the 2 millinium of Saints did,
the Oral Traditions did,
the canonized scriptures from the Catholic Church did,
the reformers (yes the reformers) did,
the Catholic Church, East and West did and does,
no wonder we can say with Christ’s certainty and promise… “… unless you EAT the flesh of the Son of Man, you have no life in you…”
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Jedinovice
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Can’t resist on this one and in reference to the above…Ah, Grasshopper…but you forget! Said Protestant, while a faithful disciple of Christ, is not a card carrying member of the One True Church.
(Now you’ll get the posts saying that if the Protestant was truly a faithful disciple of Christ he should be within the Church). Welcome to the forums btw.
All Catholic discussion forums are dominated by (fairly) radical traditionalists who think the Church will be cured off all ills by returning to the 16th Century. If you think the Tridentine Mass is the one true Mass that everyone should/must attend to be a true Catholic, that Protestants are not really Christians and that the Earth should be ruled by a Papal Monarchy with an Iron sceptre to force salvation on everyone, then you’ll feel right at home.
If you don’t think like that, take my advice and don’t hang around Catholic discussion forums much. I read here on occasion out of ‘road crash fascination’ but I spend more time on the lay community I am a member of.
I swear, I’ve never found a forum that did not boil down to being a ‘more catholic than thou’ club. Thus, you’re not going to find much ecumenical spirit online. You will, however, find it in real life.
Just so yer briefed!!
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rr1213
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I appreciate your insight on this one.Can’t resist on this one and in reference to the above…
All Catholic discussion forums are dominated by (fairly) radical traditionalists who think the Church will be cured off all ills by returning to the 16th Century. If you think the Tridentine Mass is the one true Mass that everyone should/must attend to be a true Catholic, that Protestants are not really Christians and that the Earth should be ruled by a Papal Monarchy with an Iron sceptre to force salvation on everyone, then you’ll feel right at home.
If you don’t think like that, take my advice and don’t hang around Catholic discussion forums much. I read here on occasion out of ‘road crash fascination’ but I spend more time on the lay community I am a member of.
I swear, I’ve never found a forum that did not boil down to being a ‘more catholic than thou’ club. Thus, you’re not going to find much ecumenical spirit online. You will, however, find it in real life.
Just so yer briefed!!
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Jedinovice
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A pleasure.
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KindredSoul
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But there’s been plenty of an ecumenical spirit on this very thread - you can’t just pay attention to the non-ecumenical posts and claim that online there isn’t much ecumenical spirit. Admittedly, no one here is willing to throw the Dogma of “Outside the Church there is no Salvation” out the window, because one can’t just pick and choose what to believe from the Church (as I’m sure you will agree) but plenty of posters here do not believe the Dogma necessarily means all “non-Catholics” when it says “Outside the Church”. If that’s not being as ecumenical as possible without betraying the Church’s Teachings, I don’t know what is. The majority of Catholic posters on this forum seem to have demonstrated the balance of being both ecumenical and faithful to the Church’s Dogmas.
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mrs_abbott
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Jedinovice is right too. Catholics here are very much NOT like the typical Catholic you’d run into. The Catholics here make up about an eighth of the entire Catholic population.
Most Catholics are very warm and inviting and tolerant of different beliefs and don’t ridicule you for having an opinion on something that might not coincide with the CC, as long as the individual is open-minded to the Truth.
At least that’s how it is where I live. I love my Catholic Church in my small town!!!
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