To a Roman Catholic are Protestants good Christians?

[MrS]

If that’s true, then either you know a lot more Catholics than you do Protestants or there is something wrong in So. Mich. I am a Catholic in a very Protestant part of the country, and my experience is very different from yours. I would readily grant that there are a very large number of very devout protestants whom I would never hesitate to call “good Christians”. But I will also say Catholics, at least where I live, are much more predictably so.

Mr S:

from an earlier post… :I think I know more Catholics who are “poor” christians than I know non-Catholics who are “poor” christians.

However, history teaches us that for 1500 years there was no difference between christian and Catholic… just levels of intensity or faith… there was only one Church… the Catholic Church founded by Christ, orignally referred to as*** The Way***, and then around 100AD referred to as Catholic.

There is no Roman Catholic Church… but there is the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church.

Perhaps the thread could be titled, What Makes a Good Christian?

If that were the question, the answer would have to include :

only the one who believes(obeys) all, repeat all, that Christ taught (first orally, then much of which came through the Scriptures of the NT written by Catholic human authors and the Divine Holy Spirit.

By necessity, this would include John 6… the source and the summit of the Faith… the Eucharist.

I guess the “argument” could then be made that one is not a christian if one does not believe correctly in the Real Presence.

Many do not, and have mentally walked away… this includes both Catholics and non-Catholics… some out of ignorance, some by being mislead, and some because God has not opened their eyes yet.

now… to explain a bit further…

The sparks might fly if one were to show that you must first be a Catholic to even be any kind

of Christian… good or bad.
Then anyone would be able to know more Catholics who are “poor” Christians … no one else could be considered.

Certainly I know more Catholics than non… I am rather active in my own faith.

And Yes … S.Michigan is in bad shape… no wonder Fr. Corapi feels the need to come here so often,… moreso than any other state.
.

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[DJgang]

A famous Anglican childrens’ hymn often sung on All Saints Day says it well:

I sing a song of the saints of God,
patient and brace and true,
who toiled and fought and lived and died
for the Lord they loved and knew.
And one was a doctor, and one was a queen,
and one was a shepherdess on the green;
they were all of them saints of God, and I mean,
God helping, to be one too.

They loved their Lord so dear, so dear,
and his love made them strong;
and they followed the right for Jesus’ sake
the whole of their good lives long.
And one was a soldier, and one was a priest,
and one was slain by a fierce wild beast;
and there’s not any reason, no, not the least,
why I shouldn’t be one too.

They lived not only in ages past;
there are hundreds of thousands still.
The world is bright with the joyous saints
who love to do Jesus’ will.
You can meet them in school, on the street, in the store,
in church, by the sea, in the house next door;
they are saints of God, whether rich or poor,
and I mean to be one too.

Children’s Hymn…heck…us Adults get down to this one as well. We love this song!

AND I MEAN TO BE ONE TOO!

As to the original question. Who am I to say that someone is or isn’t a good Christian?

 

[Trad_Catholic_1]

That was extremely uncharitable. John Wesley never was a Catholic, so he was not excommunicated from the Catholic Church. He was a priest in the Church of England until his death.

I don’t think it was uncharitable.

I remember one winter morning saying how cold it was. A protestant friend turned to me and said: “That’s just God’s way of telling us to burn more Catholics”. I laughed.

Perhaps John Wesley would in this case.

 

[Caesar]

****I keep seeing posts about “The One True Faith” not in relation to Christianity but in relation to Roman Catholicism. How then do Roman Catholics view other branches of the Christian faith? Can non Roman Catholics also be true and good Christians?

Good, but not true. There is only one True Faith and that is the Catholic Faith. The protestants and the eastern orthodox have many elements of truth, but only to the Catholic Church is given the complete deposit of Faith, as the Church that Christ founded.

 

[calchiquita]

i know this may sound offensive but in my personal opinion i believe that protestants become “good christians” when they unite themselves with the catholic church. alot of people are too quick to say “I would rather see a good protestant than a cafeteria catholic” but in my personal opinion both are equaly bad. i believe that there are many protestants who love the Lord but i think that they would be much better christians if they were in the true church

Well, it certainly is easier to be good with recourse to more graces.

 

[valient_Lucy]

****I keep seeing posts about “The One True Faith” not in relation to Christianity but in relation to Roman Catholicism. How then do Roman Catholics view other branches of the Christian faith? Can non Roman Catholics also be true and good Christians?

Catholics believe that people become Christians at the moment of their baptism. So if a Protestant is baptized, and attempts to follow the revelation he has been given, and tries to love God and obey Him, he can be a good Christian.

 

[scylla]

You need to broaden your understanding of what is a Saint of God. All faithful Christians are saints whether they are canonized or not.

Amen, I agree with you that all faithful Christians are saints. That is why I defined faithful Christian also.
I disagree about the broadening as Jesus said, “small is the gate and narrow is the road”
I am not sure I need to broaden it as it is pretty clear.

Those who are lukewarm or who would rather define God instead of seek what is the God’s will usually are not considered faithful Christians, so they would not be saints. Just like the Catholics who sit in the pews and don’t give a lick for what is going on.

This of course is my definition, I am not much of a universalist as I believe truth matters. God loves us enough for us to know truth.
To make a statement that is contrary to the truth of God and claim it is God’s truth is to commit blasphemy. And to claim blasphemers are faithful Christians is silly.
That is why truth matters. This is why there is one true faith or else we can just believe whatever we want and still get into heaven.

There are some Protestants who will openly seek truth and change their lives not just to their limits but to Gods.

But as others said, who the heck am I to say who is good or bad. I can just state what makes a person good or bad and I do not know the hearts of most Protestants until I talk to them. And only then if they are honest with me or else I know just what they tell me.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

****I keep seeing posts about “The One True Faith” not in relation to Christianity but in relation to Roman Catholicism. How then do Roman Catholics view other branches of the Christian faith? Can non Roman Catholics also be true and good Christians?

This is the reason I dont like calling myself a Christian. It is a word with millions of meanings.

I am a Roman Catholic, and in my opinion the only way to be a good ‘Christian’ is to follow Christ and His Church.

Outside of the Catholic Church no one can be saved and no one can truly follow Christ.

So if you take the word Christian literally (meaning: a follower of Christ) then no…there are no good Christians outside of the Catholic Church.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

That was extremely uncharitable. John Wesley never was a Catholic, so he was not excommunicated from the Catholic Church. He was a priest in the Church of England until his death.

I thought the stance of the Church was that heresy is a grave sin and grave sins can put you in hell.

Id rather be uncharitable than countering Church doctrine.

 

[MrS]

This is the reason I dont like calling myself a Christian. It is a word with millions of meanings.

I am a Roman Catholic, and in my opinion the only way to be a good ‘Christian’ is to follow Christ and His Church.

Outside of the Catholic Church no one can be saved and no one can truly follow Christ.

So if you take the word Christian literally (meaning: a follower of Christ) then no…there are no good Christians outside of the Catholic Church.

thanks for restating the Truth… it is painful, and perhaps “offensive” to our separated brethre… but they make a choice daily to accept less than the Fullness of the Faith.

We must keep repeating the truth… to do less (to comprimise) is to show less charity and love.

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[wcknight]

From what I understand John Wesley is the founder of the Methodist denomination. No one knows, who goes where, but from some more hard core Church views, he may be lost.

There are saints, folks who are in Heaven, and there are major Saints, folks who led extraordinarily holy lives AND who were especially blessed by God as great miracle workers and with other seeminlgly super natural gifts.

I know of many many Catholic MAJOR Saints. There are no major Protestant saints (canonized or otherwise).

Name one protestant who could perform real miracles seemingly at will, who could bi-locate, received the wounds of Christ, read the condition or state of others souls, speak as if God Himself were his personal advisor.

Sorry Billy Gramham and a few others may have been great human beings, fine Christians, and holy people, but they are no miracle workers, and NOT major saints by any stretch.

 

[mikew262]

This is the reason I dont like calling myself a Christian. It is a word with millions of meanings.

I am a Roman Catholic, and in my opinion the only way to be a good ‘Christian’ is to follow Christ and His Church.

Outside of the Catholic Church no one can be saved and no one can truly follow Christ.

So if you take the word Christian literally (meaning: a follower of Christ) then no…there are no good Christians outside of the Catholic Church.

Oh, you are very wrong. Even the Church doesn’t take your position.

 

[Caesar]

thanks for restating the Truth… it is painful, and perhaps “offensive” to our separated brethre… but they make a choice daily to accept less than the Fullness of the Faith.

We must keep repeating the truth… to do less (to comprimise) is to show less charity and love.

.

And the gays find the Church’s condemnation of gay marriage as offensive.
And the pro-abortionists find the Church’s position on abortion as offensive.
And I’m sure the Satanists find the Church’s not-so-nice words about the Evil One as offensive.

Shall we back off from openly denouncing gay marriage, abortion, and even the Evil of Satan because some people find it offensive?

The truth is inconvient isnt it?

 

[Caesar]

Oh, you are very wrong. Even the Church doesn’t take your position.

Since when? That there is no salvation outside the Church is a dogma, and to reject it incurrs an anathema.

 

[KindredSoul]

Well, even the Catechism clearly states that those born into a state of schism “have a right to be called Christian” and that they can’t be charged with the sin. This doesn’t mean that it’s not a sin to be in schism, but the Church has consistently taught, to my knowledge, that even a grave sin crosses into being mortal only at the moment that it is commited willingly and knowingly.

Many, many Protestants out there would gladly become Catholic if they knew it was the One Church and that the Catholic way of life is the one which Christ instituted for His followers. By definition, this makes their sin potentially venial, even though it may be grave, because they don’t do so willingly/knowingly.

By this virtue, they are still technically tied to the Church, and thus unknowingly part of the one True Catholic Church (outside of which there is indeed no salvation), until they knowingly reject it or refuse to believe in it simply because they don’t want to believe it…unfortunately, many Protestants probably fit that category, but many don’t.

All any of this proves is that Protestants can be Heaven-bound Christians; can they be good Heaven-bound Christians? Well, I don’t think we can use the term “good”…we can use the term “ideal” or “sincere.” The Protestants who truly would officially join the Catholic Church if they found it to be true, and who would at least look into it if they even suspicioned it, are indeed sincere. Of course, the ideal Christian would have to be a devout, obedient, humble Catholic–because Christ wouldn’t have set up the standards of the Church if they were not the ideal and perfect standards. So if you call “good” someone who is sincere and will quite probably be in Heaven, Protestants can fit the bill, and in fact must do so if their sin of schism isn’t also to be mortal. If you call “good” only someone who is living up to God’s ideal standards to the best of his/her ability, then that’s by definition only possible for a Catholic, who knows what those standards are.

I personally prefer to say “sincere” and “ideal” instead of “good” because the word “good” is misleading and can sound incredibly judgmental if misused, at least when being applied to Protestants vs. Catholics. All that said, the Church should never stop teaching that being Catholic is the ideal and the standard, and that in fact Catholicism is the only Fullness of the Truth. It’s just that it takes a certain awareness for a sin to be Mortal–to say otherwise seems ironically a Protestant way of thinking, not a Catholic one.

 

[MrS]

[1] This is the reason I dont like calling myself a Christian. It is a word with millions of meanings.

[2] I am a Roman Catholic, and in my opinion the only way to be a good ‘Christian’ is to follow Christ and His Church.

[3] Outside of the Catholic Church no one can be saved and no one can truly follow Christ.

[4] So if you take the word Christian literally (meaning: a follower of Christ) then no…there are no good Christians outside of the Catholic Church.

[1] I tend to agree. I am a Catholic Christian… but that is almost a “double positive”…
Christian certainly used to originally mean a follower of Christ, but in modern language is has been grabbed by so many who say Lord, Lord… but reject so much of what He taught.

[2] Perhaps you meant you are a Catholic in the Roman Rite…

[3] While this topic has been cover on many other threads, you are basically correct. The Catholic Church has a good understanding that there is NO Salvation Outside the Church. This is not to the extreme of Fenneyism… and a good read comes from Fr. Peter J Strasvinksas (?)

[4] I would be more inclined to say, that taking the original meaning of the word Christian, then yes, there are no Christians outside the Catholic Church… either good ones or bad ones.

What we have to do, unfortunately, is play the game of the more modern use of the words Christian, and of Church.

If we follow that road, then…

our separated brethren, called Christians, are lacking the fullness of the faith.

While not bad themselves, they have opted for a lesser (bad because it is man-made) source of grace in whatever faith-community (oopps… church) they have choosen to support.

.
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[mrs_abbott]

Can non Roman Catholics also be true and good Christians?

Absolutely! We are all brothers and sisters in Christ!

 

[Caesar]

We cannot hope to serve the Church if we water-down the truth that is contained in her doctrines. The teachings of Our Lord offended many in His day and have done so throughout the history of His Church.

It is DOGMA that there is One Church, Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic, and outside of her there is no salvation. It is anathema to deny this.

 

[rr1213]

We cannot hope to serve the Church if we water-down the truth that is contained in her doctrines. The teachings of Our Lord offended many in His day and have done so throughout the history of His Church.

It is DOGMA that there is One Church, Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic, and outside of her there is no salvation. It is anathema to deny this.

For a Church that teaches that it cannot err in matters of faith and morals, it is truly ironic how the Church’s doctrine on this teaching has evolved over the years.

 

[Caesar]

For a Church that teaches that it cannot err in matters of faith and morals, it is truly ironic how the Church’s doctrine on this teaching has evolved over the years.

Evolved only to include new and emerging classes of heretics.