To be deep in the bible is to cease to be Catholic

[edward_george]

Giver:

After three-hundred years the Holy Spirit had people put together a book with the teaching that were God’s Word. So any teaching that contradicts the Word of God is wrong.
Giver

The Holy Spirit had people put together a book indeed. Those people were the Bishops of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Since you accept that people put together the book, why don’t you accept their other teachings?–teachings that do not contradict the Word of God.

-ACEGC

 

[all4one]

Church Militant:

all4one…somehow you just missed the whole point of everything I said. It is quite possible but I will try to clear it up. And you apparently are not accustomed to the debate aspects of apologetics. That too is probably true. I’m no where near as polished as you. Point one: Since when does Christ hand out mixed messages? I don’t remember saying he handed anything out but if you mean I said that we are all in a different place in our walk with Him and that what is appropriate for one might not be appropriate for another is not the same as saying what is right for one is not right for another. If you have two children of different ages and you are telling them the facts of life I hope you would make it age appropriate. This does not mean you told them contrary things. The mind of the flesh is not able to see beyond either or. The truth is your religion is not God with us but rationalism. Unfortunately you do not see the limits of reasoning. It is the old wine. Is the Holy Spirit ever the author of confusion? (See 1st Cor. 11-14 for that answer).
Just because someone comes along and tells us that the Holy Spirit told them something does not make it so. For who? Maybe not for you and I but maybe it is true for the person who was spoken to. I am no judge of if God has revealed something to you or not. I can only assess whether or not I will believe it based on your fruit (behaviour). How do we discern what is true and what is errant? It is measured against the Word of God, the verifiable teachings of the early church, and the teaching authority of the Catholic Church as the church that Christ Himself founded. You are assuming that everyone has the same faith in the authority of the church that you do. This isn’t the place for this subject.
That’s pretty simple. If you see the CCC as “a manual” then perhaps you need to get a copy and actually sit down and read and study it with your Bible in hand and maybe your opinion will change. I have. Reading the CCC,for me, is like trying to drink ice. It’s the difference between looking upon a scene of different butterflies flittering in a meadow (Scripture) and looking at them pinned into an old book (CCC).
Point two: Does truth change? If there is such a thing as absolute truth, (and I believe that there is!) then the pursuit of that truth brings us ever closer to Christ Himself because He said “I am…the truth…” If one loves someone one wants to get to know everything about that person. In that respect, that truth is all important to knowing that person and in so doing, loving them all the more. I agree with this completely.Jesus gave us a church to know Him through.

I am not sure that I am right about much. I am sure that I am having trouble with having to reason myself to heaven.

 

[bookgirl]

**A41 – **

If you have two children of different ages and you are telling them the facts of life I hope you would make it age appropriate. This does not mean you told them contrary things.

---

Okay, but what Jesus told Giver and what Jesus told me are not “age appropriate” (in regards to spiritual age). He “told us” two CONTRADICITNG things, who is right and who is wrong (which there HAS to be one if you believe in absolute truth) and how did you come to that conclusion??? Why is it that no one can answer that question?

 

[biblesound]

MariaG:

I just wanted to help out a faily new member who may be hesitant to start a new thread.

The allegation is that once one gets deep into Scripture one would cease to be Catholic.

So go at it. What Scritpture?

God Bless,
Maria

I think at one time the Catholic church did not want christians to search or read scriptures, i don’t think it is this way anymore.

 

[edward_george]

biblesound:

I think at one time the Catholic church did not want christians to search or read scriptures, i don’t think it is this way anymore.

This is off topic and has been debated dozens and dozens of times on other threads. Tell us your sources for this information. When in history did the Catholic Church not want Christians to search or read the Scriptures?

Answer: Never. The thing is, the Scriptures weren’t compiled into the Bible that we know today until the 300s. Until the printing press was invented, the people had no way of affording the Bible. There haven’t always been Bibles lying about in piles everywhere–books used to be very, very expensive and only the wealthy could afford them.

Next question–How did Christians receive much of the Scriptural teachings during the time when either there was no Bible or they couldn’t afford one?

Answer: The Mass. The Liturgy of the Catholic Church is steeped richly in Scripture. The hymns, the responses, the prayers–the Eucharistic Prayers especially. To go to a Catholic Mass is to be absolutely doused in Scripture.

-ACEGC

 

[all4one]

**A41 – **

If you have two children of different ages and you are telling them the facts of life I hope you would make it age appropriate. This does not mean you told them contrary things.

---

Okay, but what Jesus told Giver and what Jesus told me are not “age appropriate” (in regards to spiritual age). He “told us” two CONTRADICITNG things, who is right and who is wrong (which there HAS to be one if you believe in absolute truth) and how did you come to that conclusion??? Why is it that no one can answer that question?

I don’t know why others have not answered but for myself I would not be able to tell you or anyone what Absolute Truth is. I am a stinking clay wretch. I am not going to tell God He has to make his ‘absolute truth’ understandable to me. I’m too busy trying to keep hold of the hem of His garment. I think I did say that our job is to follow Him in whatever way He is leading us. I did say that perhaps the Lord told Giver that the way he was following Him was good, and I said that perhaps the way the Lord told you to follow him was good. The Jews asked Jesus why his disciples didn’t do the religious thing with fasting. Jesus said something to the effect of ‘there is no need if the Bridegroom is with them.’ Some of us are at different places. Jesus did not say fasting was wrong or bad. It was just not appropriate for those who were with Him then. It was appropriate later though. Did Jesus tell either of you something that was contrary to a commandment?Did He tell one of you something was right and the other that it was wrong?

 

[bookgirl]

all4one:

I don’t know why others have not answered but for myself I would not be able to tell you or anyone what Absolute Truth is. I am a stinking clay wretch. I am not going to tell God He has to make his ‘absolute truth’ understandable to me. I’m too busy trying to keep hold of the hem of His garment. I think I did say that our job is to follow Him in whatever way He is leading us. I did say that perhaps the Lord told Giver that the way he was following Him was good, and I said that perhaps the way the Lord told you to follow him was good. The Jews asked Jesus why his disciples didn’t do the religious thing with fasting. Jesus said something to the effect of ‘there is no need if the Bridegroom is with them.’ Some of us are at different places. Jesus did not say fasting was wrong or bad. It was just not appropriate for those who were with Him then. It was appropriate later though. Did Jesus tell either of you something that was contrary to a commandment?Did He tell one of you something was right and the other that it was wrong?

You don’t believe in absolute truth then? You don’t believe what the entire Bible says?

 

[mercygate]

all4one:

I am not sure that I am right about much. I am sure that I am having trouble with having to reason myself to heaven.

Al, you’re having trouble with something far more important to this forum than reasoning: the “quote” feature for posting a response. Click on the little button in the lower right corner of the screen when you want to answer somebody and see what happens. :tiphat:

 

[biblesound]

edward_george:

This is off topic and has been debated dozens and dozens of times on other threads. Tell us your sources for this information. When in history did the Catholic Church not want Christians to search or read the Scriptures?

Answer: Never. The thing is, the Scriptures weren’t compiled into the Bible that we know today until the 300s. Until the printing press was invented, the people had no way of affording the Bible. There haven’t always been Bibles lying about in piles everywhere–books used to be very, very expensive and only the wealthy could afford them.

Next question–How did Christians receive much of the Scriptural teachings during the time when either there was no Bible or they couldn’t afford one?

Answer: The Mass. The Liturgy of the Catholic Church is steeped richly in Scripture. The hymns, the responses, the prayers–the Eucharistic Prayers especially. To go to a Catholic Mass is to be absolutely doused in Scripture.

-ACEGC

Here is the info you requested of where I got my info and exactly what it states.

“Of all the advice that we can offer your holiness we must open your eyes well and use all possible force in the matter, namely to permit the reading of the gospel as little as possible in all the countries under your jurisdiction. Let the very little part of the gospel suffice which is usually read in mass, and let no one be permitted to read more. So long as people will be content with the small amount, your interest will prosper; but as soon as the people want to read more, your interest will fail. The scripture is a book, which more than any other, has raised against us the tumults and tempests by which we have almost perished. In fact, if one compares the teaching of the scripture with what takes place in our churches, he will soon find discord, and will realize that our teachings are often different from the scripture, and oftener still, contrary to it.”

This is an excerpt from an address given by the Cardinals to Pope Pius III in 1503 AD. and is perserved in the National Library of Paris, Folio No. 1068, Vol 2, pp. 650-651

 

[gusano]

Philthy:

Or maybe a …

skeptic?

Hey thanks Philthy,

for causing a 25% increase to my vocabulary !

You have made my day profitable

God Bless,

gusano

 

[1962Missal]

biblesound:

Here is the info you requested of where I got my info and exactly what it states.

“Of all the advice that we can offer your holiness we must open your eyes well and use all possible force in the matter, namely to permit the reading of the gospel as little as possible in all the countries under your jurisdiction. Let the very little part of the gospel suffice which is usually read in mass, and let no one be permitted to read more. So long as people will be content with the small amount, your interest will prosper; but as soon as the people want to read more, your interest will fail. The scripture is a book, which more than any other, has raised against us the tumults and tempests by which we have almost perished. In fact, if one compares the teaching of the scripture with what takes place in our churches, he will soon find discord, and will realize that our teachings are often different from the scripture, and oftener still, contrary to it.”

This is an excerpt from an address given by the Cardinals to Pope Pius III in 1503 AD. and is perserved in the National Library of Paris, Folio No. 1068, Vol 2, pp. 650-651

Of the approximately 116 webpages that Google lists containing the above quote, all are either virulent anti-Catholic sites or (suprise) cut and pastes to message boards.

All except for the following interesting page:
www2.trincoll.edu/~dcruzuri/anti-catholic/bogus-quote.html

Should this be reported to the moderators?

Justin

 

[1962Missal]

I believe the above quote may also be found in print here

Justin

 

[Michael_Francis]

Having drifted off-topic, this thread is now closed.
Thanks to all who participated in the discussions.