To be deep in the bible is to cease to be Catholic

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TobyLue:
Montie

Oh, I know. All of my examples of course Bible only believers take out of context. Call no man father is one of the first that I have seen that they point out to prove the CC wrong. A few years ago my parish priest was asked to lead a procession through downtown on the Feast of Corpus Christi. He was carrying the monstrance and four men had the canopy, followed by several hundered people. I had the thurible. We had mass at one church then processed to another about 8-9 blocks away where we had a rosary. When we passed a small park, there was some guy shouting with a bible in hand and when he saw that we were passying buy, he started shouting and pointing to us “THE BIBLE SAYS CALL NO MAN YOUR FATHER… blah, blah, blah”".

I was just pointing out what some people use as the excuses to leave the CC. I think the 65 million figure was from the book by Lorraine Boettner “Roman Catholicism”.
I talked with one of my wife’s cousin regarding tradition because he said that Jesus was against it. I explained “Tradition” vs “tradition”. He called me the next day and thank me because he looked into it and now understands and is all thrilled about coming back to the CC.
Yeah, I looked at your post fairly santly the first time and jumped to conclusions then after I read it the second time I thought “opps. Not anti-catholic guy”. But, thanks anyhow. I needed to look oversome of those things again before I fergot them (though sadly most people don’t beleive me when I tell them “no we don’t worship Mary” I am tring to find a way that makes others face the cold hard fact that we don’t). And way to go with that Gentleman (three Cheers for one loone of the streets and one sane man in the pews).
 
Montie Claunch:
I am tring to find a way that makes others face the cold hard fact that we don’t [worship Mary]).
I like to quote St. Luis DeMontfort’s treatise on True Devotion to Mary, page 1, chapter 1, paragraph 1:
With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, “I am he who is”. Consequently, this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of his will and the manifestation of his glory. To do all things he has only to will them.
This book has been praised by at least 5 popes as an excellent work on what true devotion actually is. This usually sets the “you worship Mary” folks back a bit.

After that, you may challenge them to find a single Catholic document that says that we are to give to Mary the same honor/praise/worship that we give to God. Tell them that if they can show you where the Church teaches that Mary is a god you will leave the Church that day. Just be prepared to look at the context of whatever they might produce.

God Bless,
RyanL
 
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cr2005catholic:
Here is a quick quiz that shows some differences between Catholic Doctrine and the Bible.
That quiz was AWESOME!!! It’s a complete re-hashing of post #91, and demonstrates that the same tired lines keep being brought up, completely out of context, and absolutized to the detriment of the rest of God’s Holy and inerrent word.

cr2005catholic,

First, WELCOME!

Second, You don’t actually believe any of that, do you? If you do, maybe you should tag-team with NonDenom and take me up on my challenge (post #81).

God Bless,
RyanL
 
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cr2005catholic:
Here is a quick quiz that shows some differences between Catholic Doctrine and the Bible.

catholicroman.home.comcast.net/
Justification (salvation) is by faith alone, not works.
True
False

Here is one question from the site. I find it so interesting because the answer according to the site answer is true. And goes on to show why Catholics are wrong to say we are justified by our works. Yet the unbiblical view is that we are saved by faith alone. Catholic words are straight from Scripture.

:bible1: James 3:24 See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone

And Catholics are the ones who have beliefs that contradict the Bible?

If you wish to discuss any particular claim, or all, I and others would be happy to, including the claim that we are not justified by works when Scripture so clearly says otherwise.

Works does not mean the same thing as works of the law. If it did, Scripture would contradict Itself.

God Bless,
Maria
 
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MariaG:
Justification (salvation) is by faith alone, not works.
True
False

Here is one question from the site. I find it so interesting because the answer according to the site answer is true.
It’s easy to prove whatever one wants when one makes up the answer key without regard to the truth.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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mlchance:
It’s easy to prove whatever one wants when one makes up the answer key without regard to the truth.

– Mark L. Chance.
I don’t know whether to laugh:rotfl: or cry :crying: .
 
:rotfl: until you :crying: . Kills two birds with one stone. 😃

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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cr2005catholic:
Here is a quick quiz that shows some differences between Catholic Doctrine and the Bible.

catholicroman.home.comcast.net/
I am not a Catholic, but I would like you to know your questions tell everyone how little you know about the Catholic Faith and how little you know about Christianity.
 
I have a buddy at work, who is a well-informed, devout Open Plymouth Brother (as in Plymouth Brethren). When I can get him off the Rapture (:rolleyes: ), we talk Book. He loves the KJV. But when you say being deep int he Bible is to cease to be Catholic, he has worked up a clever string of scriptural quotations in sequence that could be used to start a thread:

“To be deep in the Bible is to cease to be Christian”

The point is that scripture cannot be read or deployed in isolated segments.

I love this guy. He carries a small KJV in his pocket and refers to it as his “weapon.” BTW, he’s a former Catholic but does not have any of the anti-Catholic virulence we so often come across. Gotta bring this guy back home.
 
MariaG, OK I believe the Catholic Church has a hard time explaining the following Scriptures: (Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There will be left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the raging fire that is to burn rebels. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who trample on the Son of God, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will repay. And again: The Lord will judge his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(Hebrews 6:4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and woodworms destroy them and thieves can break in and steal.”

(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”

Usury: (Ezekiel 18:13) “_____ charges usury on loans and takes interest, then this son shall certainly not live; having committed all these appalling crimes he will have to die, and his blood be on his own head.” And

(Luke 6:27-29) “But I say this to you who are listening: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who treat you badly. To the man who slaps you on one cheek, present the other cheek too; to the man who takes you cloak from you, do not refuse your tunic.”

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”

(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; **anyone who lives in God does not sin, and ** anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy; to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 5: 16) “If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the simmer - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.

We know that anyone who has been begotten by God does not sin, because the begotten Son of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.” So then, brothers, there is no necessity for us to obey our unspiritual selves or to live unspiritual lives. If you do live in that way, you are doomed to die; but if by the Spirit you put an end to the misdeeds of the body you will live.”
 
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Giver:
I believe there are a number of Catholic teachings that don’t measure up to the Word of God, but I wouldn’t want you to leave the Catholic Church just because it doesn’t teach all the truth. I don’t believe there is a Christian Church that teaches the whole truth. So where do you have to go? I think we all should work very hard to get all the churches to teach the whole Word or God.

(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy; to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 5: 16) “If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the simmer - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There will be left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the raging fire that is to burn rebels. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will repay. And again: The Lord will judge his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” No Church that I know of teaches that Christians are dead to sin.

(Matthew 5:38-39) “You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance. On the contrary, if anyone hits you on the right cheek, offer him the other as well;”

The Church accepts a “Just war”

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

Not one of the Church teachings.

Usury: (Ezekiel 18:13) “_____ charges usury on loans and takes interest, then this son shall certainly not live; having committed all these appalling crimes he will have to die, and his blood be on his own head.” And Jesus raises Usury to a higher level (Luke 6:35) “Instead, love your enemies and do good, and lend without any hope of return. You will have a great reward, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.” God doesn’t use excessive when He talks about interest.

The Church says excessive interest; the Bible doesn’t qualify Usury this way. Think about it, excessive leaves it open to almost any amount. It all becomes relative.
Giver
I believe the Catholic Church has a hard time explaining the following Scriptures: (Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There will be left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the raging fire that is to burn rebels.

My post should read as it was written above, I’m no longer a Catholic and I do believe that a person should not summit to a church that isn’t teaching all the truth.

I keep a copy of all my post and I did not write what has been posted.
 
My post should read as it was written above, I’m no longer a Catholic and I do believe that a person should not summit to a church that isn’t teaching all the truth.
Here is a question to ask yourself, “Who are you to think you have the infallible interpretation of Scripture?”
 
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ComradeAndrei:
Here is a question to ask yourself, “Who are you to think you have the infallible interpretation of Scripture?”
Who I am isn’t important, or what I may or may not think I am shouldn’t make any difference to anyone. The Scriptures read quite plainly, and it doesn’t take much to understand them, other than to understand English. Now if some one doesn’t understand all they need to do is ask the Holy Spirit to explain. Jesus gave Christian the Holy Spirit to teach them.

(Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered and every one of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God is calling to himself.”
 
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Giver:
Who I am isn’t important, or what I may or may not think I am shouldn’t make any difference to anyone. The Scriptures read quite plainly, and it doesn’t take much to understand them, other than to understand English. Now if some one doesn’t understand all they need to do is ask the Holy Spirit to explain. Jesus gave Christian the Holy Spirit to teach them.

(Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered and every one of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God is calling to himself.”
So you say the Scriptures are quite clear, if so why isn’t there a unified understanding of Scriptures. Is your understanding 100% correct?

In Christ
Scylla
 
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MariaG:
Show me one doctrine of the Catholic Church that contradicts the Bible and I will leave it immediately.

God Bless,
Maria
Immaculate Conception

“all have sinned” (Rom. 3:23)

This is a contradiction. It is plain to see. However, I know you will not concede. Here is the defense: catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

However, it is still a contradiction. Just one that has been acceptably “explained and defended” to Catholics.

Why did Jesus need to sacrifice his sinless life than? Why not use Mary’s life to atone for mankind’s sin?
 
Giver,
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Giver:
Who I am isn’t important, or what I may or may not think I am shouldn’t make any difference to anyone. The Scriptures read quite plainly, and it doesn’t take much to understand them, other than to understand English. Now if some one doesn’t understand all they need to do is ask the Holy Spirit to explain. Jesus gave Christian the Holy Spirit to teach them.

(Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered and every one of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God is calling to himself.”
I’m terribly sorry that you have left the Faith for something less valuable.

I am a convert to the Faith, having spent 35+ years of my life in other churches, including 9+ years as a clergyman.

Let’s be honest – the Scriptures by themselves do NOT “read quite plainly”. Been there – done that. If this were true, why are there umpteen zillion different conservative, evangelical groups each claiming to have “THE ANSWER”???

You reference the Holy Spirit. Don’t you know that the gift of the Holy Spirit comes through the Church?

I pray that you return to your First Love and for the forgiveness of God for those who have deceived you.

Blessings,
 
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NiceFundamental:
Immaculate Conception

“all have sinned” (Rom. 3:23)

This is a contradiction. It is plain to see. However, I know you will not concede. Here is the defense: catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

However, it is still a contradiction. Just one that has been acceptably “explained and defended” to Catholics.

Why did Jesus need to sacrifice his sinless life than? Why not use Mary’s life to atone for mankind’s sin?
I would LOVE to talk to you about this, but it’s not appropriate for this thread. Please start a new one on the IC, the Assumption, or the possibility for Mary to redeem us apart from Christ. I would like a chance to explain so that even you will except the reasoning of the response.

God Bless,
RyanL
 
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