To be deep in the bible is to cease to be Catholic

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all4one:
Are you saying that spiritual is not real?
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spiritual is not material… " my flesh is real food…"**

Spiritual is the ground of real. Are you saying that eating the corporal body of Jesus is more ‘real’ than eating the spirit of Jesus?
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Absolutely… and when they walked away from this hard saying, He let them… He did not say “Hey, wait a minute, don’t walk away, I am only talking spiritually.”**

What you physically eat is gone in ten minutes. What you spiritually eat is there as long as your attention (will) is on it. ‘Your treasure is where your heart is’ not where your senses are. ‘Keep your mind on things ABOVE…’ ‘I stand at the door and knock…’ this in not a physical door- it is an image to induct us into the spirit. ‘The flesh is of no avail, my words are spirit…’

**His words are spirit …and truth (not just spiritual, and symbolic)

so… what are the words??? What does IS mean?**

The spiritual is indeed very real otherwise why bother with Christianity at all? It’s something to think about.
Al
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“Amen, amen, I say to you. Unless you eat the flesh…”

nothing symbolic there

OT Passover… you had to EAT the lamb.

NT “…behold the Lamb of God…”

Revelation… the lamb continually being presented to the Father.
 
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Giver:
I am sorry to make myself clear let me say: I believe the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Jesus. Jesus said it was spiritual and He said it was real food. My point was that we didn’t need the Eucharist to have Jesus with us, because we are the temples of Christ.
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where?

there is a difference between the declaration that the Flesh of the Lord is real (in spirit/truth) and

the " is real food" is only spiritual or symbolic.

I can’t tell Jesus that His gift of Himself to us is something I don’t need. That is a major difference between Catholics who believe and all others.
 
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MariaG:
I just wanted to help out a faily new member who may be hesitant to start a new thread.

The allegation is that once one gets deep into Scripture one would cease to be Catholic.

So go at it. What Scritpture?

God Bless,
Maria
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By reading the scripture is what made me Catholic. I did not listen to sound bites from Scripture to determine my faith. I read it completely and studied and meditated on what is written. This lead me to the Truth.
 
Giver said:
(Matthew 23:8-12) “You, however, must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor must you allow yourselves to be called teachers, for you have only one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you must be your servant. Anyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and anyone who humbles himself will be exalted.

I don’t believe Paul ever allowed any one to call him father Paul. I also believe his use of father, was just an expression to remind the people to whom he was writing that he was responsible for their rebirth in Christ.

Now think of it, even if we believe Paul, Peter, or any of the Apostles told us to do something that Jesus said not to do, are Christians followers of Paul? No! Christians are followers of Christ. We learned from Peter, Matthew, John, James, Mark, Luke, Paul, and the rest, but if what we think we have learned from them differs from what Jesus told us we had better listen to Jesus.

Also Jesus gave us His Holy Spirit to settle any misunderstandings.
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Oh, so they can only THINK of him as a father, but they shouldn’t call him one. Glad God can’t read their minds b/c then he would know they were doing something Jesus told them they couldn’t do. But wait, Paul can call himself a father, so can we call ourselves that as long as no one else does? For that matter, looks like the ENTIRE WORLD is going against the word of God – Hi Dad 😉 , oh wait, you’re not my father, I can’t call you that. Even though God created you and gave me to you as his earthly charge, and gave his people the ability to come up with the word “father”, since Jesus said call no man father he had to have meant call absolutely no man father so I’ll just call you Jim :).
 
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bookgirl:
Oh, so they can only THINK of him as a father, but they shouldn’t call him one. Glad God can’t read their minds b/c then he would know they were doing something Jesus told them they couldn’t do. But wait, Paul can call himself a father, so can we call ourselves that as long as no one else does? For that matter, looks like the ENTIRE WORLD is going against the word of God – Hi Dad 😉 , oh wait, you’re not my father, I can’t call you that. Even though God created you and gave me to you as his earthly charge, and gave his people the ability to come up with the word “father”, since Jesus said call no man father he had to have meant call absolutely no man father so I’ll just call you Jim :).
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Look! You do what you want. What I say isn’t going to change your mind. Jesus said don’t call any man father, you disagree with Him, so go to Him and argue it out with Him.
Giver
 
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Giver:
Look! You do what you want. What I say isn’t going to change your mind. Jesus said don’t call any man father, you disagree with Him, so go to Him and argue it out with Him.
Giver
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but we don’t disagree with Him

it is your position that does not understand what He taught
 
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Della:
Well, if Jesus can tell you what’s what, why can’t he tell us, too? 😉
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Good question! Could it be because you don’t really believe Jesus will answer you? Or maybe you don’t recognize His voice?
Giver
 
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Giver:
Good question! Could it be because you don’t really believe Jesus will answer you? Or maybe you don’t recognize His voice?
Giver
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ouch!!!

But once again…"…he who hears you, hears Me and the One Who sent Me…"

He is not talking about you or I… but the Church (yes, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Aposolic Church founded by Christ Himself)

I hope I sounded sure enough for you.🙂 I do recognize His voice.
 
Giver,
You are bringing this issue to another thread and you are shot down there.

You read one part of scripture take it out of context and keep hammering that one verse. This is typical and if one is truly to fully appreciate the word of God one must read from page to page. Not pick and choose what sounds good to one person.

And again you take the title Father way out of context and not truly understand the true meaning of it.
 
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Giver:
Look! You do what you want. What I say isn’t going to change your mind. Jesus said don’t call any man father, you disagree with Him, so go to Him and argue it out with Him.
Giver
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So what do you call your father? That’s a serious question by the way.
 
And do you happen to have other ways of referring to your brothers and teachers as well? If it applies to father under your logic, it applies to the other three in that verse as well.
 
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bookgirl:
So what do you call your father? That’s a serious question by the way.
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His quote from different thread with subject of calling Priests Father.
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Giver:
I’ll answer you this way: before I would call my biological father, “father” I would go to Jesus and ask Him what is right for me to do. Personally, I am called dad buy my children, which seems to have less formal connotation.

I restate: Jesus was most likely telling us that we only have one master and all praise and glory belong to Him not to anyone else. Father is used in the church to give honor to another Christian who has been set aside by the church as someone special. Jesus says we are all brothers not one above another.
Giver
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The greatest among you must be your servant. Anyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and anyone who humbles himself will be exalted.

Sorry, I know I’m beating this to death but it’s really bugging me. Did it occur to you that the “humbles himself will be exalted” is the key point to this whole verse? That maybe putting yourself on God’s level, saying you are the same as God, is what he’s warning against here? Oh wait – did Jesus ever call any of his disciples his brother?
 
Giver:
Jesus says we are all brothers not one above another.

Well, I guess there’s my answer. Giver gets to pick and choose what he believes from the Bible.
 
Okay, I take back the whole brother argument and humbly admit I read it wrong :). Everyone needs to be told to shut up once and a while, I’ll tell myself :).
 
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MrS:
ouch!!!

But once again…"…he who hears you, hears Me and the One Who sent Me…"

He is not talking about you or I… but the Church (yes, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Aposolic Church founded by Christ Himself)

I hope I sounded sure enough for you.🙂 I do recognize His voice.
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I hear you, and I pray eo some how receive the wisdom to convey to you the absolute reality that Jesus meant all His people would or could hear His voice. Actually speak to you personally. Answer questions that are asked of Him.

(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.
Giver
 
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RyanL:
Giver,

It’s nice that you believe this, but I have a couple of questions:
  1. Where does the text ever say that St. Paul didn’t allow anyone to call him father? We speak Bible on this site - if you can’t provide even a single scripture from where you get this belief (implicitly or explicitly), you really have no argument. We’re not just going to accept as historical fact your opinion about what may have been the case.
    Paul was not telling them to call him father (if you insist on being a legalist), he was saying to them that he brought the Gospel to them like a father.
  2. Why, if he was going to steer so far away from the title, would St. Paul apply it to himslef?
    Because he knew they were not legalist and that they had common and spiritual sense and knew how to apply the term. They were not so afraid of correct protocal now that they were in Christ.
  3. What do you think St. Paul called his own daddy?
    Dad/father- like you and I do. Jesus is talking about those who are foiiowing Him- not every Tom, Dick and Saul. The moment you truly realize that God is your father is the moment you become a son. Call everyone father but in your heart and soul understand that your true origin is divine. It’s the spirit of the thing - not the letter.
  4. When you were in school, who was the person who stood in front of the class and gave instruction? Mrs. Skarrot. Again, this is not the spirit of Jesus’ message. He is talking about our spiritual learning/salvation- not about spelling class. The letter kills.
    God Bless,
    RyanL
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Likewise, Al
 
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