To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

[Randy_Carson]

There is a parallel that’s going on here, Bergon.

-Outside of Christ there is no salvation.
-Outside of the Church there is no salvation…for the Church is the Body of Christ, and without a Body, one cannot have the Head.

And it appears you don’t have a problem with the first statement, but do have a problem with the second.

But it seems inconsistent to me that you can say: it is an absolute teaching that without Christ there is no salvation…but not agree that it’s also an absolute teaching that without the Church there is no salvation.

Why would I do that? I have never posited that he is beyond salvation. In fact, I have proclaimed loudly and proudly that he may indeed achieve salvation.

Indeed.

'zactly.

You are absolutely right.

And if these people who are invincibly ignorant of Christ and His Church are in heaven, they can’t be there outside of Christ, right? It is only through Christ that they are saved.

Well done!

 

[Jozefo]

There’s only so much a poster can do with long lists of what professions said daughter
shouldn’t be in with the math issues etc; What if you had a son or a daughter that came hope with this or that an F in this or that…
Mary.

I want to clear this up once and for all, before I unsubscribe from the thread. My daughter has no math issues. This entire dialogue about her is completely contrived, and is being continued out of pettiness and being mean spirited.

I chose your post MaryT777 to respond to, because it was a convenient lead in for me to have my say. Please don’t think I’m including you in my deep disappointment about the subject matter of math and my daugher.

[UNSUBSCRIBED]

 

[Bergon]

I am saddened that you feel you cannot participate in a dialogue here, esp. when you are leaving on such nebulous terms.

I just got an email to say there’d been posts on this thread. It reminded me to unsubscribe.

 

[PRmerger]

My daughter has no math issues.

sigh

I think that this post demonstrates an inability to think in the abstract.

As I have already stated, this is a hypothetical discussion,** in which the existence of a daughter in reality is of no import whatsoever.**

The reality, however, is that anyone who allows her child (be it a son, or daughter) to believe whatever she wants regarding math is setting her up for failure.

Truth matters. Not what one perceives as truth. And we don’t get to decide what’s true (nor do we get to decide how to spell things*). It’s our job to discern truth. Not decide that a circle is now a square because of how one perceives it.

*Regarding spelling: of course there is a liberty to play around with words/letters. But it is playfulness, not in the spirit of “I can do whatever I want and no one has the authority to tell me I can’t!”

 

[PRmerger]

Well done!

shaw:

 

[MaryT777]

I want to clear this up once and for all, before I unsubscribe from the thread. My daughter has no math issues. This entire dialogue about her is completely contrived, and is being continued out of pettiness and being mean spirited.

I chose your post MaryT777 to respond to, because it was a convenient lead in for me to have my say. Please don’t think I’m including you in my deep disappointment about the subject matter of math and my daugher.

[UNSUBSCRIBED]

Jozefo:
Stick around. I’m sure we can carry on this conversation without mentioning your daughter.
Sorry I even responded to such posts.
Mary.

 

[JonNC]

Who established the Roman Pontiff as the head of His Church?

(I gave you a hint: the H is capitalized.)

I thought it was Constantine.

I’m** just** kidding.

Jon

 

[jmcrae]

I thought it was Constantine.

:slapfight: :slapfight: :slapfight:

I’m** just** kidding.

 

[PRmerger]

Jozefo:
Stick around. I’m sure we can carry on this conversation without mentioning your daughter.
Sorry I even responded to such posts.
Mary.

Yes. No one mentioned her daughter, in reality. It was a hypothetical daughter.

Her existence is not required to consider the point being made.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes. No one mentioned her daughter, in reality. It was a hypothetical daughter.

Her existence is not required to consider the point being made.

Perhaps now we can consider the original question in a more rational manner, without so much drama.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The usual drama when you realize what you said didn’t make much sense.

 

[ufamtobie]

From a different thread, does this accurately reflect Catholic teaching?

Jon

Jon, thank you for letting me know you posted my quote below to this post re:

JonNC, it reflects not only the Catholic Church Teachings but Jesus Christ Teachings because the Two go hand in hand and are inseparable. Amen

Originally Posted by

ufamtobie View Post

Jon, to be honest with you yes, it would be better to be ignorant of the Catholic Churches teaching, than come to Know it, and then come to “Frankly Reject it”.

At least when they come before Christ, they can say we did not know, we were not taught, we were ignorant these by Jesus Christ and by His Catholic Church they will be saved. But what will Christ say to them that came to know the Catholic Churches Teachings and then frankly rejected it, what about them, what would Jesus Christ say to them?
Jesus Christ and His Church He established can not be separated from one another.
Ufam Tobie

JonNC, I’m sure you have read (2 Peter 2: 21) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of justice, than after they have known it, to turn back from that holy commandment which was delivered to them.

Jon, I’m sure you have read John 15:22 “If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin”

Jon, for crying out loud you are a Forum Master here at CAF you are not invincibly ignorant of the Catholic Teaching re: No Salvation Outside the Church means, if you were ignorant then that is a different story. JonNC, in another thread, I will quote you, you stated that you “Frankly Rejected” this teachings, where does this leave you? Yes, I worry for you my friend.

Jon NC, We see this in Jesus’ own words to the Pharisees: John 9: 41"If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains"

Jon, The Catholic Church is the way Jesus Christ wants us to follow Him by receiving Baptism, Repentance, and Eucharist and by no other church, it is time to let go and let God and His True Church, Guide you, because tomorrow may be to late.

Once we are in Heaven we all will be Catholic.

Ufam Tobie

 

[ufamtobie]

Why would one reject something they know and believe to be the truth?

Jon

JonNC, Out of Stubbornness / Proudness! Knowing and believing the Truth but yet refusing to move or change to the Truth.

Ufam Tobie

 

[RandomRhino]

“In the Yamauchi lectures of the spring of 1994, Stephen Duffy of Loyola University writes that Jesus as a ‘marginal Jew’ could not possibly be the sole medium of grace. There was grace and truth before Jesus, and there is grace and truth in the world that cannot know Jesus now.”

Stephen Duffy: “The Christian claim that Jesus is decisive is not a claim that God is to be found only in Jesus and nowhere else, but that the only God that might possibly be discovered elsewhere is the God made known in the life and death of Jesus.”

Source: Zen Spirit, Christian Spirit by Robert E. Kennedy, S.J.

 

[ufamtobie]

I’m not asserting anything with the quote. The good Cardinal is asserting at least the possibility that when I receive a Lutheran Eucharist, I am receiving “**the salvation-granting **presence of the Lord”. He uses the words “the” (as opposed to “a”), and salvation-granting. That is pretty strong language from a Catholic. Yes?

As a Lutheran, regardless of what Cardinal Ratzinger says, I would absolutely assert that a Lutheran Eucharist is valid, and it is truly the real and substantial body and blood of Christ.

Jon

JonNC, do you get down on your knees to adore and worship your Lutheran Eucharistic bread and blood?

Has there been any confirmed miracles regarding the Lutheran Eucharist?

Does your Lutheran Church offer Eucharistic Adoration?

After all who received your Lutheran Eucharist, at your church, the remaining Eucharist how and where is it stored?

Jon, do you believe you have to be in a State of Grace before eating the Lutheran Eucharist?

Are you willing to be martyr for the Lutheran Eucharist?

Ufam Tobie

 

[ufamtobie]

A good video to watch on youtube is “Only Catholic in Heaven” by the vortex

Ufam Tobie

 

[RandomRhino]

JonNC, do you get down on your knees to adore and worship your Lutheran Eucharistic bread and blood?

Has there been any confirmed miracles regarding the Lutheran Eucharist?

Does your Lutheran Church offer Eucharistic Adoration?

After all who received your Lutheran Eucharist, at your church, the remaining Eucharist how and where is it stored?

Jon, do you believe you have to be in a State of Grace before eating the Lutheran Eucharist?

Are you willing to be martyr for the Lutheran Eucharist?

Ufam Tobie

Shouldn’t we all be standing together and doing good together instead of saying Catholic Eucharists are way better than Lutheran Eucharists? Especially since God will judge us by what we do on this Earth.

I’m fairly positive that God will let all around good people into heaven, so encouraging people to do good and actually doing good with them probably isn’t a bad idea. At the very least, it’s more productive than having petty squabbles about this kind of stuff.

 

[ufamtobie]

Shouldn’t we all be standing together and doing good together instead of saying Catholic Eucharists are way better than Lutheran Eucharists? Especially since God will judge us by what we do on this Earth.

I’m fairly positive that God will let all around good people into heaven, so encouraging people to do good and actually doing good with them probably isn’t a bad idea. At the very least, it’s more productive than having petty squabbles about this kind of stuff.

Rhino,

Not in Buddhist learning that for sure, you can count me out on that!

Ufam Tobie

 

[MaryT777]

Shouldn’t we all be standing together and doing good together instead of saying Catholic Eucharists are way better than Lutheran Eucharists? Especially since God will judge us by what we do on this Earth.

I’m fairly positive that God will let all around good people into heaven, so encouraging people to do good and actually doing good with them probably isn’t a bad idea. At the very least, it’s more productive than having petty squabbles about this kind of stuff.

Petty squabbles about such things as the Eucharist? No it’s far too important to just
shrug off.
Mary.

 

[RandomRhino]

Rhino,

Not in Buddhist learning that for sure, you can count me out on that!

Ufam Tobie

I honestly tried to understand what you’re getting at, but I didn’t. I simply don’t understand your sentence. All I understand is that you have something against Buddhism. And just because I have Buddhist leanings doesn’t make me Buddhist. :doh2:

Petty squabbles about such things as the Eucharist? No it’s far too important to than
just shrug off.
Mary.

I’m just saying that we as Christians need to focus our attention to our world’s poor and sick, kind of like what Jesus did. I’ve always thought that instead of squabbling over different dogma and alienating our fellow Christians (and other religions), we could take that energy and do something so amazing, like giving every child a home or making sure not a single person goes to bed hungry. I feel like that’s what Jesus would want from us—to build homes, to feed the hungry, to help the sick!

Don’t you agree? We could do something so incredibly amazing!

“Spread the love of God through your life but only use words when necessary.” - Mother Teresa