To live by faith

[twb1621]

Let us all know and be thankful that Craig without doubt is following the guide of the Holy Spirit. With all he has received it will take some time for the soil to norish the seed but with enlightenment and supportive prayers to the Holy Spirit, he will be guided to the Truth. It is his goal and Christ’s desire.

God BLess you Brother.

 

[Cinette]

Your contribution to the thread has been valuable Tom. I wish we had discussed the Eucharist though.

Blessings
Cinette

 

[Snowy]

Hi Snowy!

I am a revert so consider myself in the category of Kindergarten Catholic and have learned so much from these forums. You ask good questions and I await the answers and if I should get any inspiration I will also join in.

However, as you might have seen above I long to hear what others feel about the Eucharist. Since you are a recent convert and so is Lief I would be most interested to hear your story. My husband was a life long atheist who converted 3 years ago and now attends Daily Mass and I marvel at his Faith. It inspires me.

So, let’s hear what you have to say.

Blessings
Cinette

At this point, the Eucharist is hard for me to swallow.

I was baptized when I was a week old and had my 1st. Communion at 6. My life didn’t change the way the priest who taught us Cathechism promised, and that probably got me started as an atheist. To be fair, I didn’t go into it with a pure heart; whatever terrible sins I thought I had commited by age 6 (I couldn’t tell you now what they might have been) I didn’t confess them. I do remember what I confessed to get the confession over with: “I have disobeyed my parents and fought with my sisters”. In my defense I can say that during the Mass I did penance by not blowing off the huge candle they gave each of us to hold like the rest of my classmates did, and stoically let the hot dripping wax burn my hands.

In my early teens I took the Eucharist 2 more times (without confessing first) when I found myself in Church for some social reason and wanted to be like everybody else. Again nothing.

6 weeks ago I got on my knees, disowned myself to God and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord, and that’s the day I became a real Christian. I haven’t taken the Eucharist again yet, but I’m so much at peace and conforted, and God is giving me so much, that I’m not sure if it can get any better with the Eucharist. I do know that it’s going to be hard for me to take it without any scepticism. I believe in the Sacrament, so I’ll do my best.

I cannot say that my Acts of Contrition have been perfect out of fear of being prideful, but I can say that I’m not afraid of dying right now even if I’m not in full Communion with the Church.

I hope that helps, Cinette.

 

[Cinette]

At this point, the Eucharist is hard for me to swallow.

I was baptized when I was a week old and had my 1st. Communion at 6. My life didn’t change the way the priest who taught us Cathechism promised, and that probably got me started as an atheist. To be fair, I didn’t go into it with a pure heart; whatever terrible sins I thought I had commited by age 6 (I couldn’t tell you now what they might have been) I didn’t confess them. I do remember what I confessed to get the confession over with: “I have disobeyed my parents and fought with my sisters”. In my defense I can say that during the Mass I did penance by not blowing off the huge candle they gave each of us to hold like the rest of my classmates did, and stoically let the hot dripping wax burn my hands.

In my early teens I took the Eucharist 2 more times (without confessing first) when I found myself in Church for some social reason and wanted to be like everybody else. Again nothing.

6 weeks ago I got on my knees, disowned myself to God and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord, and that’s the day I became a real Christian. I haven’t taken the Eucharist again yet, but I’m so much at peace and conforted, and God is giving me so much, that I’m not sure if it can get any better with the Eucharist. I do know that it’s going to be hard for me to take it without any scepticism. I believe in the Sacrament, so I’ll do my best.

I cannot say that my Acts of Contrition have been perfect out of fear of being prideful, but I can say that I’m not afraid of dying right now even if I’m not in full Communion with the Church.

I hope that helps, Cinette.

You have had a wonderful conversion it sounds to me Snowy. We continue to experience conversions until we die. What is so terribly important is that despite your conversion you have held back and are being cautious in regard to the Eucharist. You have reverence and realise that this is something that cannot be treated lightly. I am not going to offer you any advice. I am going to pray for you and trust that you will be led to take the appropriate steps.

Cheers

 

[twb1621]

Your contribution to the thread has been valuable Tom. I wish we had discussed the Eucharist though.

Blessings
Cinette

We will when he returns…

 

[twb1621]

At this point, the Eucharist is hard for me to swallow.

I was baptized when I was a week old and had my 1st. Communion at 6. My life didn’t change the way the priest who taught us Cathechism promised, and that probably got me started as an atheist. To be fair, I didn’t go into it with a pure heart; whatever terrible sins I thought I had commited by age 6 (I couldn’t tell you now what they might have been) I didn’t confess them. I do remember what I confessed to get the confession over with: “I have disobeyed my parents and fought with my sisters”. In my defense I can say that during the Mass I did penance by not blowing off the huge candle they gave each of us to hold like the rest of my classmates did, and stoically let the hot dripping wax burn my hands.

In my early teens I took the Eucharist 2 more times (without confessing first) when I found myself in Church for some social reason and wanted to be like everybody else. Again nothing.

6 weeks ago I got on my knees, disowned myself to God and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord, and that’s the day I became a real Christian. I haven’t taken the Eucharist again yet, but I’m so much at peace and conforted, and God is giving me so much, that I’m not sure if it can get any better with the Eucharist. I do know that it’s going to be hard for me to take it without any scepticism. I believe in the Sacrament, so I’ll do my best.

I cannot say that my Acts of Contrition have been perfect out of fear of being prideful, but I can say that I’m not afraid of dying right now even if I’m not in full Communion with the Church.

I hope that helps, Cinette.

As Jesus asked of all of us through Saint Faustina, Trust in Him. When you are ready to receive the Eucharist do not expect to feel anything of a miraculous nature. Such expectations can in a sense be a quest for proof from our Lord through such a feeling. Remember that all the saints, even Mother Teresa had times of feeling distant or weak feeling abandoned at times. And Mother Teresa herself was recognized as a visionary of Jesus in her earlier years. The times for receiving ”a serge” in the grace of our Lord will happen but that is not to say you do not receive His grace when you don’t “feel” so. As imperfect as we are, we receive grace to the degree we are open to it. The more we learn of Him the closer we join Him in that love and devotion that strengthens our soul. As that happens, you will at times feel the grace of Jesus thorough His body and blood. Keep the thought of what degree of presence could you actually bare of our Lord. We want to experience Him, we want to see Him, and we want to feel His embrace. But He knows for most of us the heartache that would take over us once He was not physically with us again. Once could never be enough to have such experiences of Him. Know that you are blessed.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculte Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

It’s great to hear your impressions, AveSanteMaria. I am glad following the bishops has blessed you so, and it was lovely to hear your words about the Pope and Mary’s help in the Holocaust .

Here’s the story you were looking for about the televized apparitions from Egypt. In my view, they’re some of the most phenomenal of all time. It was an incredible blessing to me.
zeitun-eg.org/zeitoun1.htm

Thanks Lief Erikson for sharing that link! It was a blessing to me as well I also watched a video, I didn’t completely understand the video: youtube.com/watch?v=S_X8l9OcEDI&mode=related&search= , but I heard the message and that was also a blessing. I also wonder - did the Immaculate Heart of Mary choose Egypt for this unique miracle in order to show forgiveness for the Old Testament slavery in Egypt??

Thanks Cinette for bring up the Eucharist! I prayed the Most Holy Rosary only an hour ago, and read chapters of John in between my decades of the Rosary (I do that so I can focus on the mysteries and not get too distracted, impatient to finish). I think that I believed in the Eucharist (1) I returned to the Catholic church on faith, not sight, and it was a teaching so I accepted it without proof (2) I then learned about the Lanciano Eucharistic miracle that I posted about in an earlier post. In this miracle, a Catholic priest in A.D. 700 did not believe in the Eucharist, and then it turned into real flesh. This flesh was preserved and later analyzed by Dr. Oduardo Linoli, with an article published about the Eucharistic miracle in 1971 in a journal, Quad Sclavo Digan. This article is documented at www.pubmed.gov, a service of the U.S. National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health, ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4950729?ordinalpos=19&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum.
*Title: “Histological, immunological, and biochemiccal studies on the flesh and blood of the eucharistic miracle of Lanciano (8th century)” * Alas… the article is in Italian so I cannot read it, nor do I have access to the article as I do not currently have access to a University subscription. However, I hope to send a letter to Dr. Oduardo Linoli, who is still alive, hoping for an English transcription or an Italian transcription that I can later pay to translate. Several other sites contain information about this Eucharistic miracle: therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html and zenit.org/article-12933?l=english and even without knowing all the facts presented on these sites, it is a miracle in and of itself that the flesh is surviving for over 1000 years.
(3) As was revealed to me today, the doctrine of real flesh and real blood is in the Bible, particularly in (John 6:25-59). Here is an excerpt: “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever. He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teacing. Who can accept it? … From this time, many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.”" (John 6:53-60, 66)

I also hope that I am not being too arrogant by bring up the Magisterium again, but alas I am a sinner as well, so perhaps I am. If the Pope does not have the **keys to the kingdom **, then we Catholics are going down the wrong path!! "He also told them this parable, “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?” (Luke 6:39) There is some responsibility of anyone who wants to save us, to show us why the Pope should not be believed and Sola Scriptura should be accepted by itself, instead of in conjunction with the Magisterium and Sacred Tradition.

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[benedictus2]

Your contribution to the thread has been valuable Tom. I wish we had discussed the Eucharist though.

Blessings
Cinette

I have been thinking about this and I think it is an excellent suggestion.

Since this thread is about how Catholics live by faith and Eucharist is the source and summit of our life then I think we should. All in favour say Aye. Aye, Aye, Aye

I would like to start from a different angle.

A few weeks ago Reformed started a Bible study on John.

So he posts John 1 and here it is.

*In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be 4 through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; 5 the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. 6 A man named John was sent from God. 7 He came for testimony, to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to testify to the light. 9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him. 11 He came to what was his own, but his own people 7 did not accept him. 12 But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, 13 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man’s decision but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth. *

I think half a dozen Catholics jumped right in and concluded that this is pointing to the Eucharist (you know Incarnation, made flesh).

And I thought whoa, slow down were not yet in Chapter 6.

Then one night I was turning this over in my head and I thought wow, if you really look at it, the prologue until verse 14 really encapsulates the Mass.

You have the Word was with God, and then you have Johh the Baptist crying in the wilderness proclaiming the Word. John the Baptist stands for the Old Covenant and would herald the New Covenant. And as in the Mass you have the Liturgy of the Word (and the readings from the Old Covenant (Testament). Then the New Covenant is proclaimed with the readings from the Gospel.

And all this culminates in the Incarnation (in the enfleshment of the Word) in the Eucharist. And He now dwells among us, ever present in the Tabernacles of our Churches.

So I thought well, perhaps those who came up with the Eucharist based on John 1 were not far off after all.

 

[Cinette]

I have been thinking about this and I think it is an excellent suggestion.

Since this thread is about how Catholics live by faith and Eucharist is the source and summit of our life then I think we should. All in favour say Aye. Aye, Aye, Aye

I would like to start from a different angle.

A few weeks ago Reformed started a Bible study on John.

So he posts John 1 and here it is.

*In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be 4 through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; 5 the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. 6 A man named John was sent from God. 7 He came for testimony, to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to testify to the light. 9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him. 11 He came to what was his own, but his own people *7 did not accept him. 12 But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, 13 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man’s decision but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.

I think half a dozen Catholics jumped right in and concluded that this is pointing to the Eucharist (you know Incarnation, made flesh).

And I thought whoa, slow down were not yet in Chapter 6.

Then one night I was turning this over in my head and I thought wow, if you really look at it, the prologue until verse 14 really encapsulates the Mass.

You have the Word was with God, and then you have Johh the Baptist crying in the wilderness proclaiming the Word. John the Baptist stands for the Old Covenant and would herald the New Covenant. And as in the Mass you have the Liturgy of the Word (and the readings from the Old Covenant (Testament). Then the New Covenant is proclaimed with the readings from the Gospel.

And all this culminates in the Incarnation (in the enfleshment of the Word) in the Eucharist. And He now dwells among us, ever present in the Tabernacles of our Churches.

So I thought well, perhaps those who came up with the Eucharist based on John 1 were not far off after all.

Thank you for that Benedictus. I know I am going to learn a lot here. I have been thinking back to the time I returned to the Catholic Church after an absence of 27 years. I was still very green about the Faith but I was just drawn. It started with reading in the newspaper of a day of prayer for world peace. Once I entered the Church I wanted to go again and again. Then it was preparing for Confession because I knew I had to be “clean”… I remembered my first Holy Communion when I was only 6 years old. I recalled how I was in awe. I put my hands together and when I received the Host I wouldn’t let it even touch my teeth! But I was not sufficiently instructed… Now what? I was returning… What to do? And again I was just a child approaching the altar. It was only some years later after doing Life in the Spirit Seminar and being infused with the Holy Spirit in a new way did I begin my search more seriously.

What I know now is that “there is always more”. We read the scriptures and the more we read the more we see - the more we find.

Now, on CAF we meet people and we discuss as we have never discussed - we share with people who have the same purpose…to share, to learn… This is wonderful.

It is Saturday morning and I am going to Mass in half an hour and I will be praying for all on CAF and I will pray ask that there will be a special outcome from our current discussion.

What Craig started on this thread will help us all to look at our Faith and to discover more. My friend Val keeps reminding us of this … there is always more…

.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Friends, I’ve got to leave these forums for a while. It’s a matter of personal responsibilities. I’m very sorry to miss the discussion of the Eucharist . I shall return! To haunt you .

Thanks for a lot of excellent discussion and insight from so many people. It has been a great pleasure posting and reading in this thread and the others on Catholic Answers, and I know I’ll be back. It’s really indefinite how long I’ll be away. It could be a few weeks. Maybe somewhat longer. It’s hard to stay away, but personal responsibilities call!

I’ve loved the posts I’ve read from everyone here. It has been so much fun, and very enlightening!

Thanks for such an excellent discussion!

~Lief

 

[benedictus2]

I then learned about the Lanciano Eucharistic miracle that I posted about in an earlier post. In this miracle, a Catholic priest in A.D. 700 did not believe in the Eucharist, and then it turned into real flesh. This flesh was preserved and later analyzed by Dr. Oduardo Linoli, with an article published about the Eucharistic miracle in 1971 in a journal, Quad Sclavo Digan.

Hi Ave,

The priest was actually a Basilian Monk. And here is an extract of the conclusions from that test in 1971 from this website
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

These analyses sustained the following conclusions:

• The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.
• The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
• The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
• In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
• The Flesh is a “HEART” complete in its essential structure.
• The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).
• In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.
• In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.
• The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.
  And there are heaps of other Eucharistic Miracles.

The very first one I heard as a child was that of St Anthony of Padua

 

[benedictus2]

Friends, I’ve got to leave these forums for a while. It’s a matter of personal responsibilities. I’m very sorry to miss the discussion of the Eucharist . I shall return! To haunt you .

Thanks for a lot of excellent discussion and insight from so many people. It has been a great pleasure posting and reading in this thread and the others on Catholic Answers, and I know I’ll be back. It’s really indefinite how long I’ll be away. It could be a few weeks. Maybe somewhat longer. It’s hard to stay away, but personal responsibilities call!

I’ve loved the posts I’ve read from everyone here. It has been so much fun, and very enlightening!

Thanks for such an excellent discussion!

~Lief

And our Lord who has been walking with you all throughout will be companioning you in whatever it is you will be understaking.

Looking forward to your return. (I’m sure I am speaking for all the rest of us)

 

[Cinette]

Today as I prayed at Mass the words of Jesus came to me: if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you can move mountains…

I have often thought, but my faith is bigger than a mustard and I do not move mountains!! Maybe I have. My husband said that I was instrumental in his conversion which started with a Jewish scientist whom we met at a book launch. Even if I was 5% instrumental then I guess that is a mountain… When I witness his faith and see him receive the Eucharist I am full of wonder… He was a cynical atheist! Now he receives communion each day. THAT is a mountain!

Thank you Lord!:bowdown2: :thankyou:

 

[Cinette]

I have plenty of revelations myself, just nothing you haven’t heard before.

I could easily argue that the more history a person knows, the less likely they are to be convinced of papal infallibility. I do believe that modern popes are infallible, for the only reason that they are wise and know what to say and what not to remain infallible.

Would you please give me a hand with a question I have about St. Paul’s Interior law, if you have the answer at hand? I’ll do my best to describe for you the thought processes that went along for the ride when I became a Christian. The question is in this thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=284588

God bless you, theologians, feel free to crack a joke on simpletons.

At the time of my first Life in the Spirit Seminar several things changed. First I had a strong desire to “Praise” God instead of asking for things. I also experienced tears of joy and for several years whenever we prayed “Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us……” tears would come to my eyes. I have a problem with concentration and find that when I pray for someone at Mass, my thoughts go to that person and I immediately lose concentration. As soon as we get to the part when we pray “Lamb of God……” my concentration comes back with the tears that begin to swell in my eyes! The Holy Spirit’s way to bring me back. This has not happened in a while.

I know that the Mass is our offering to God and for a long time I could not say the prayer of surrender of St Ignatius Loyola:

“Take, O Lord, and receive my entire liberty, my memory, my understanding and my whole will. All that I am and all that I possess You have given me. I surrender it all to You to be disposed of according to Your will. Give me only Your love and Your grace; with these I will be rich enough, and will desire nothing more.”

I was afraid that by surrendering Jesus would demand more of me and I was scared of surrendering my so-called “freedom”.

I am no longer afraid to say the prayer of surrender. I trust Jesus and believe in his promises and I would like to understand the Eucharist more. It is not easy to understand but I do believe that I must have Faith. That is what Christianity, especially Catholic Christianity is all about.

I believe that if I had lived in Jesus’ time I would have walked away like the other disciples when Jesus said, “Eat my flesh, drink my blood”. We now have the witness of over 2000 years and this helps. We have the benefit of that witness.

Jesus knows us and he has allowed miracles to take place to help us on our journey. What a generous God we have.

I feel a need to perfect my relationship with God and the Eucharist is a great opportunity to do so. A friend said, “We must offer ourselves in submission to whatever God wants for us. Then, we should accept in humility and faith that God has given us Himself, even if we don’t feel a lurch into the 50th dimension”. We do not go to Mass to be entertained. We go to worship. Sometimes we look for a nice feeling and it isn’t there. We experience dryness – that joy isn’t there. There is merit in perseverance and Jesus understands. We have to work at our faith. Did someone not say that “Faith is a decision”??

I want to visit that link you gave in your post and will do so as soon as I have time. I just wanted to share the above with you as it emanated from my thoughts at Mass this morning.

 

[benedictus2]

I know that the Mass is our offering to God and for a long time I could not say the prayer of surrender of St Ignatius Loyola:

“Take, O Lord, and receive my entire liberty, my memory, my understanding and my whole will. All that I am and all that I possess You have given me. I surrender it all to You to be disposed of according to Your will. Give me only Your love and Your grace; with these I will be rich enough, and will desire nothing more.”

I was afraid that by surrendering Jesus would demand more of me and I was scared of surrendering my so-called “freedom”.

I love this prayer- the Suscipe. On my journey, my very first companions were the Jesuits having read Opening to God by Thomas Green very early on.

The Suscipe is in some ways a “hard prayer” to utter. It is very hard to reliquish the I. And much of it is to do with choice. I will choose. What some people fail to see is that they are enslaved by freedom because their concept of freedom consist of the unholy trinity of I,Me, Myself.

But the toppling of this triune dictatorship only happens by grace and this abounds in the Eucharist.

When Jesus gives himself to us and fills us entirely, then there is no place for the I. But the paradoxical thing is, that we also become truly the individual God created us to be. But and it is a big but, it is a very slow process.

One day on the way home from Mass, I was singing the “Supper Invitation” when the words “branch of my vine” just really hit me for six I had to stop walking. I became so acutely aware of just how close that is, to be so connected to Him as to be a branch of Him, and that the sap, that life that flows in Him, flows in me as well when I come to receive Him. It was quite staggering.

 

[benedictus2]

Today as I prayed at Mass the words of Jesus came to me: if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you can move mountains…

I have often thought, but my faith is bigger than a mustard and I do not move mountains!! Maybe I have. My husband said that I was instrumental in his conversion which started with a Jewish scientist whom we met at a book launch. Even if I was 5% instrumental then I guess that is a mountain… When I witness his faith and see him receive the Eucharist I am full of wonder… He was a cynical atheist! Now he receives communion each day. THAT is a mountain!

Thank you Lord!:bowdown2: :thankyou:

Yes, sometimes we have to put on different sort of spectacles to see the truth.

We sometimes belittle the efficacy of prayer and yet I am certain that when we get to heaven we will find out exactly how much our prayers have helped us and others.

I told my mom that if there is anything that I really thank her for it is her unceasing prayers for us. I am sure that it is only though it that I managed to remain in the straight and narrow

 

[dawid]

Last year, during my visit to my daughter living in Louisville, Ky, I was able to attend Mass daily at her parish which was two blocks away.
There, I discussed parish life with the priest.
He thought about it for a short while and said that from his point of view, everything revolves around the Eucharist.

I remembered that Jewish covenants revolve around a covenant meal.
The prime example is the Passover Seder meal. During this meal, the meat of the Paschal lamb is eaten in memory of the Covenant between God and the people of Israel.

As the sacrificial lamb of the new Covenant or Testament is the Lamb of God, we were instructed to celebrate, in His memory, the Covenant by eating His Body and drinking His Blood.
He declared that the bread was His Body and the wine was His Blood.

That caused much consternation among the Jews for good reasons.
In spite of this, the Christ stood by his word!

This is the Lamb that He promised Abraham!

The more I think about them, the more clearly I understand things.
How blessed and privileged we are!

 

[Cinette]

Hi Cinette,

I have the highest reverence for the “body and blood” of Christ.

You ask me, very specifically, in your post:

“Do you not believe in transubstantiation? Or do you believe that it is just a symbol?”

I believe that transubstantiation is a philosophical model that attempts to explain how Christ is present in the Eucharist. The theory has been hotly disputed and debated.

I believe that Christ is PRESENT in the Lord’s Supper in a dynamically SPIRITUAL WAY. Therefore, when I eat the “bread” and “drink the blood” I believe that I am nourished by Christ AFTER A SPIRITUAL FASHION. I believe that I feed on Christ, in my heart, with thanksgiving.

When I go to a Catholic Church, I bow to the altar and RECOGNISE CHRIST’S SPIRITUAL PRESENCE. I see no hypocrisy here on my part. I utterly respect the faith of true Catholics who differ with me here. I do not, of course, have any desire or wish to convince any Catholic of my viewpoint here. Also, I respect the wish of Catholics that I do not take the consecrated host, as this would indicate that I am in full accord with Roman Catholic teaching. I ask for a “blessing only” if I am in a Catholic Church.

I allow Catholics to be fully themselves and I delight in their genuine piety.

I do claim, though, to be a genuine Christian and I know I am part of Christ’s Church.

I believe this post answers your questions.

May God bless you, In Christ Craig

I wish to comment on Craig’s post regarding his understanding of the Eucharist as being SPIRITUAL.

To get a good understanding of the Eucharist one should read John 6:26-69

John 6:35* “Jesus said to them, “I am the bread life; he who comes to me whall never be hungry, and he who believes in me shall never be thirsty………
………………………………………………………………
John 6:51
“I am the living bread which has come from heaven; whoever eats of this read will live forever. The bread I shall give is my flesh and I will give it for the life of the world.”*

52 *The Jews were arguing among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus replied, “Truly, I say to you, if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives with eternal lie and I will raise him up on the last day.

55 My flesh is really food and my blood is drink. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blook lives in me and I in him. 57 Just as the Father, who is life, sent me and I have life from the Father, so he who eats me will have life from me. 58 ………………he who eats this bread will live forever.”

60 After hearing this, many of Jesus’ followers said, “This sort of teaching is very hard! Who can accept it?

61 Then how will you react when you see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh cannot help. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. …………………

66 After this many disciples withdrew and no longer followed him. 67 Jesus asked the Twelve, “Will you also go away? 68 Peter answered, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
*
Jesus repeats the command to “eat” his “flesh” six times in different ways. Jesus makes it clear that the flesh to be eaten is as literal as the body on the cross was literal.

Catholics believe that Jesus is really present in the consecrated host. This is the only way to explain adequately Paul’s assumption in 1 Cor 11:25-32, “Whoever drinks the cup of the Lord or eats the bread in an unworthy manner, will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord……….for everyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgement to himself.”

How can one be guilty of the body and blood of Christ if the service is only a memorial in the normal sense of the word? How much clearer could Paul be on this? Where is the contextual basis for the Protestant teaching that Communion is only a memorial? If it is only a memorial how can you “eat and drink judgment on yourself?”

When “the disciples withdrew and no longer followed Him” they did so because they rejected Jesus’ words “eat my flesh……” They said, *“How can this man give us his flesh to eat” * they did not understand it to mean in a “SPIRITUAL” sense - they understood it to mean flesh and blood - because if they did believe it was to be interpreted in a SPIRITUAL sense, there would have been no need for them to reject the teaching of Jesus. So the question in this case is how can anyone claim that Jesus meant in a “SPIRITUAL” sense? I am sure there must be other Protestants who also believe that the Eucharist is SPIRITUAL

 

[benedictus2]

Last year, during my visit to my daughter living in Louisville, Ky, I was able to attend Mass daily at her parish which was two blocks away.
There, I discussed parish life with the priest.
He thought about it for a short while and said that from his point of view, everything revolves around the Eucharist.

I remembered that Jewish covenants revolve around a covenant meal.
The prime example is the Passover Seder meal. During this meal, the meat of the Paschal lamb is eaten in memory of the Covenant between God and the people of Israel.

As the sacrificial lamb of the new Covenant or Testament is the Lamb of God, we were instructed to celebrate, in His memory, the Covenant by eating His Body and drinking His Blood.
He declared that the bread was His Body and the wine was His Blood.

That caused much consternation among the Jews for good reasons.
In spite of this, the Christ stood by his word!

This is the Lamb that He promised Abraham!

The more I think about them, the more clearly I understand things.
How blessed and privileged we are!

.

Yes! And this ties in with eating the sacrificial lamb. If we look at the OT, the sacrificial lamb has to be unblemished, no broken bones and must be eaten.

 

[benedictus2]

I wish to comment on Craig’s post regarding his understanding of the Eucharist as being SPIRITUAL.

To get a good understanding of the Eucharist one should read John 6:26-69

John 6:35* “Jesus said to them, “I am the bread life; he who comes to me whall never be hungry, and he who believes in me shall never be thirsty………*
………………………………………………………………
John 6:51
“I am the living bread which has come from heaven; whoever eats of this read will live forever. The bread I shall give is my flesh and I will give it for the life of the world.”

52 The Jews were arguing among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus replied, “Truly, I say to you, if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives with eternal lie and I will raise him up on the last day.

55 My flesh is really food and my blood is drink. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blook lives in me and I in him. 57 Just as the Father, who is life, sent me and I have life from the Father, so he who eats me will have life from me. 58 ………………he who eats this bread will live forever.”

60 After hearing this, many of Jesus’ followers said, “This sort of teaching is very hard! Who can accept it?

61 Then how will you react when you see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh cannot help. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. …………………

*66 After this many disciples withdrew and no longer followed him. 67 Jesus asked the Twelve, “Will you also go away? 68 Peter answered, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. *

Jesus repeats the command to “eat” his “flesh” six times in different ways. Jesus makes it clear that the flesh to be eaten is as literal as the body on the cross was literal.

Catholics believe that Jesus is really present in the consecrated host. This is the only way to explain adequately Paul’s assumption in 1 Cor 11:25-32, “Whoever drinks the cup of the Lord or eats the bread in an unworthy manner, will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord……….for everyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgement to himself.”

How can one be guilty of the body and blood of Christ if the service is only a memorial in the normal sense of the word? How much clearer could Paul be on this? Where is the contextual basis for the Protestant teaching that Communion is only a memorial? If it is only a memorial how can you “eat and drink judgment on yourself?”

When “the disciples withdrew and no longer followed Him” they did so because they rejected Jesus’ words “eat my flesh……” They said, *“How can this man give us his flesh to eat” *they did not understand it to mean in a “SPIRITUAL” sense - they understood it to mean flesh and blood - because if they did believe it was to be interpreted in a SPIRITUAL sense, there would have been no need for them to reject the teaching of Jesus. So the question in this case is how can anyone claim that Jesus meant in a “SPIRITUAL” sense? I am sure there must be other Protestants who also believe that the Eucharist is SPIRITUAL

There is another current where this was discussed in great detail.
I might drop in here the summary of the pros and cons from that thread later.